Hmmmm. I do not know why, but I am suddenly filled with a great urge to commission a thousand words on "Orochimaru's response to Hazō asking him if he can still remember how to cast Henge."

That would make for a great mini-scene, once we set aside simulationism to let the Grue be spoken of.
 
But what we've seen of medical ninjutsu makes it seem basically like using medical chakra to directly manipulate flesh, with chakra's own processing capacity handling the details of healing. The "mednin" stat doesn't seem to represent knowledge of a wide variety of medical jutsu, many of which are useless; instead, it seems mainly to represent skill with medical chakra, which acts as an endless toolbox for surgery, disinfection, etc.. That means there's probably limited scope for improvement in how the basic MedNin stat is used, without designing new and specialized medical techniques, because medical chakra probably doesn't have the control resolution for you to tell it "fix this person's genetic defect", even if you understand what DNA is, without a stupidly high MedNin that almost no one will actually have. (In particular, that Oro probably doesn't have; even he only has so many high-level pyramid slots.)
We have had a limited view of medical ninjutsu. What looks from the outside like simple flesh manipulation could be sophisticated hacking of limited supernatural tools. But even flesh manipulation mostly guided by chakra can do damage to patients when misapplied. Boosting immune system when the patient has immune disorder. Brining the kidney before repairing the liver as the medical journals stipulate. Oro's MedNin minimum meets the 30 prereq for Biosealing - which could be dependent or capped by med skills - and buff stack limits were put in place partially to stop Orochimaru from having infinite buffs. Doubt he has less than a full stack of buffs.
SImilarly, I think this feedback loop is unlikely, primarily because I don't think MedNin has high enough resolution for improvements in understanding to really matter. Specific techniques that rely on it are absolutely something you could investigate, and I wouldn't be too surprised if it were possible to create e.g. an organism-wide DNA editing technique, if you understand what DNA is; but that's not knowledge that you'd get from just having a microscope. It would require a huge amount of biochemical research, and I don't think medical ninjutsu is likely to help very much with accelerating that. Remember that MS8 was considered revolutionary by Noburi for medical work; that puts limits on how detailed the diagnostics medical ninjutsu gives you can be.
Bad MedNin resolution makes microscopy more valuable. MS8 was for looking at chakra so does not say much about bio diagnostics. Agreed that there is an unknown pile of biochemical research to slog past. But if MedNin can sense blood sugar, salinity, pH, oxygenation or other measurements with rough granularity it is a head start over historical chemists.
I'll give you this one; it's possible that people with certain bloodlines visibly have additional or altered chromosomes that would give an obvious starting point for understanding how bloodlines work. However, without the capacity to actually do genome mapping, I don't think Oro's likely to get very far researching that. Unlike in the real world, he can't use animal models because bloodlines are unique to humans and probably don't have anything in common with chakra beasts, and human generation times are far too long to do any kind of linkage mapping given the population sizes Oro has to work with; and as I said above, it would take a lot of hard biochemical work for him to get to the point of even understanding what DNA is, and I don't think medical ninjutsu is likely to help much with that. Remember, Oro probably doesnt even know what atoms are; he'd have to get pretty far into chemistry before he could start on biochemistry, and we have no real reason to think he's done that.
Hard to say which steps can be skipped and which cannot. Orochimaru can graft bloodlines onto other ninja. Some bloodlines have strong phenotype differences to study. Eye structure. Shark characteristics. The clan in Mist that detaches body parts. Tbh, first time seeing the term linkage mapping.

Tsunade keeps herself young. We know Orochimaru made octocats, speyeders and the skin farm and has snake biomods, battle speed regeneration + some form of cloning or resurrection. Hard to get a full picture of what level chakra cheats on or where true understanding lets him cheat harder.
Of course, obvious caveat to the above is that Oro has access to sealing, biosealing, technique hacking, and now runecrafting as well, any of which might let him skip steps here. Still, I think he won't learn much that's new from building a runic microscope. (Though we should absolutely build a runic microscope as soon as we have some free time and decide to pick up biosealing, if not before, because we already know all the answers and can therefore run a much more expedited research program than Oro is likely to be able to. Plus, it would be super interesting to read.) Sealing can already produce extremely complex effects without the person designing the seal having the slightest idea how those effects work, it seems unlikely that more understanding would actually help that much.
Understanding helps with targeting. GUI vs CLI. Cannot double your mitochondria if you do not kow mitochondria exist, bar horrible side effects.
Fake-edit: Thinking about it, actually, if Oro can make a rune that reveals that atoms exist (say, a rune that generates an interactable, zoomable map of a sample that's placed on top of it and has atomic resolution), we might be screwed. We should maybe do a prep day on a rune to that effect, just to get an idea of how hard it would be.
Zoom rune based on the Scenery Clone Seal Array might be able to do something like this. What distinction makes atoms doom spiral more than chromosomes? Speeds up timelines?
 
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If I'm reading this correctly, this would mean that even techniques which aren't Reflexive (e.g. Cloak of the Wind God) could be used off-turn by burning two Supplementals instead of one. If accurate, this would be relevant to Kei especially (since she's starved for Supplementals early in a fight and being able to save one on her first turn by using her two from before it would be a significant benefit). Is this deprecated (e.g. does it predate the existence of Reflexive Casting) or does it still apply?
This section of rules is incorrect. A ninjutsu can be cast out-of-turn if and only if it contains the "Reflexive" tag. We will update the rules document accordingly.
 
My comments on seals interacting with the Out were a mistake and will be retconned, sorry about that. Every sealing lineage has a different view on exactly what seals are and how they work. Kagome's lineage (which now includes Hazō) will tell you that chakra is like a sandbox, which can produce powerful effects but is ultimately limited to what the Sage wanted to be possible. By breaking out of the sandbox (analogy for player benefit, not something Kagome says: programming exploits), you can use tiny amounts of chakra to manipulate the raw magic of the universe directly. This can do things that ninjutsu can't (e.g. 5SB), but because you're working in a more powerful magic system, you can also cause catastrophic mistakes, up to but not necessarily including breaking holes Out of the universe.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Thank you all for taking the time to answer this! I have a few follow up questions, if that's alright.

  • How does Environmental Chakra fit into this model? Is it involved at all in the default creation of seal effects?
  • Is there normally chakra in constructs created by seals? (Earth Domes, Force Walls, Air Domes, etc).
  • How do these constructs look in Noburi's chakra sense? (Bright like human chakra, static like environmental chakra, void like no chakra)
  • Do non-constructs effect look similar to jutsu in Noburi's chakra sense?
I suppose the big question is whether seals do their business with chakra or not. Yes the explanation above says that the Human Chakra in the seal triggers the effect, but does the effect itself use chakra?
 
Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, and Zabuza.
Nah. I'm going to assume it's whatever was predating on the chakra alligators hard enough to cause them to evolve Stealth that fucking high.
Okay then, let's see...

*discards list, picks up new list*

Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, and Zabuza.
Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza, Zabuza.

We're chanting to summon Zabuza, right?
Guys why do you think the sage gave Humanity chakra for?

It was to protect from The Zabuzaz ( The plural form of Zabuza)
 
Kagami Yūsuke: Deception 1 - 12 = -11

?????????????????????:????????????????????
"You've got the wrong guy!" Yūsuke mentally shouted. "I'm not Kagami Yūsuke at all. I'm… I'm… Kagome Yū! Yeah! Kagome Yū is the name that is… my name!"

Everything was still for a second longer as the being was completely taken in by his amazing feat of deception.





ERROR/inaccuracy is acknowledged. The ????/???? will be updated.

Just as Yūsuke was sure he'd pulled it off, one last memory changed everything.

KAGOME/yū is missing. MANIFESTING/reconstructing from ????/????.
Something something negative underflow mumble mumble Shino wears sunglasses.
 
We have had a limited view of medical ninjutsu. What looks from the outside like simple flesh manipulation could be sophisticated hacking of limited supernatural tools. But even flesh manipulation mostly guided by chakra can do damage to patients when misapplied. Boosting immune system when the patient has immune disorder. Brining the kidney before repairing the liver as the medical journals stipulate. Oro's MedNin minimum meets the 30 prereq for Biosealing - which could be dependent or capped by med skills - and buff stack limits were put in place partially to stop Orochimaru from having infinite buffs. Doubt he has less than a full stack of buffs.
Bear in mind that a full stack of buffs would cost Oro 500 XP for the combination stunts needed, even if the buffs are all seals/bioseals/stunts and cost no or trivial XP in themselves. He probably hasn't spent that much XP on all of his secondary skills, and I think it's nearly certain that MedNin is at most a Calligraphy equivalent for Biosealing, so it would be a secondary skill.

Bad MedNin resolution makes microscopy more valuable. MS8 was for looking at chakra so does not say much about bio diagnostics. Agreed that there is an unknown pile of biochemical research to slog past. But if MedNin can sense blood sugar, salinity, pH, oxygenation or other measurements with rough granularity it is a head start over historical chemists.
I think you overestimate the utility of light microscopy here. A high-power runic microscope will reveal the existence of cells, nuclei, the nucleolus, mitotic chromosomes ... and that's kind of it, without appropriate staining techniques and extremely good microscopes. Mitochondria are barely visible under a light microscope, and structures like the ER usually aren't visible at all; there are improvements that can be made, but Oro almost certainly doesn't know enough about optics to do phase contrast or anything of the sort, let alone superresolution techniques of the kind you'd need to see mitochondria as more than a slight blur or darker patch on the image. (This is why I mention a non-light-based microscopic viewing rune as potentially dangerous for Oro to invent, because it doesn't suffer the limits of normal light microscopy.)

Besides, even if you understand cells, that doesn't immediately help you much with macro-scale manipulations. You have to get quite some way into cell biology before it starts paying off in terms of benefits to organ or tissue biology; it's not like nuclear fission or something where the moment you discover the process exists its applicability to power generation is obvious. Germ theory has much quicker payoffs, but not in a self-amplifying way to the extent needed for a feedback loop, I think.

Hard to say which steps can be skipped and which cannot. Orochimaru can graft bloodlines onto other ninja. Some bloodlines have strong phenotype differences to study. Eye structure. Shark characteristics. The clan in Mist that detaches body parts. Tbh, first time seeing the term linkage mapping.

Tsunade keeps herself young. We know Orochimaru made octocats, speyeders and the skin farm and has snake biomods, battle speed regeneration + some form of cloning or resurrection. Hard to get a full picture of what level chakra cheats on or where true understanding lets him cheat harder.
True, but this is kind of my point; Oro can already do so much that it's hard to see how more detailed fundamental understanding would help him, at least not of the kind he'd get out of a runic microscope.

(Linkage mapping is a method of placing genes on chromosomes. Genes that are close together on chromosomes tend to be inherited together, because it's less likely that a meiotic crossover event will occur between them; the closer they are, the tighter the linkage. You can use this to map the locations of genes, but only if you have lots and lots of occurrences to study, which means either huge population sizes or many generations. The point I was making is that Oro may be able to see that people with bloodlines have altered chromosomes (if they do), but that doesn't mean he'll be able to tell exactly where on those chromosomes the genes controlling bloodline development are, or do anything with the information even if he did. If they even exist; bloodlines may be inherited throguh a different mechanism.)

Understanding helps with targeting. GUI vs CLI. Cannot double your mitochondria if you do not kow mitochondria exist, bar horrible side effects.
But you can make bioseals that have the effects you'd presumably want out of that, and they're probably actually more likely to give you those effects than doubling your mitochondria. That "bar horrible side effects" is doing a lot of work; I think you'd need a lot of understanding to make usefully better targeting than chakra does automatically, and until then you won't benefit much (so no feedback loop).

Zoom rune based on the Scenery Clone Seal Array might be able to do something like this. What distinction makes atoms doom spiral more than chromosomes? Speeds up timelines?
It's not the atoms so much, it's all the other stuff that rune would reveal. A rune that lets you directly observe cellular processes in real time at atomic resolution practically cracks biology wide open; we do not have anything even approaching that in the real world. Using such a rune, anyone with the slightest idea what they were looking at could very rapidly develop a theory of chemistry, biochemistry, and cell biology; with chakra to provide effector tools, they might well be able to get into gene editing and synthetic biology. The main bottleneck would be information processing, because even if you have direct access to its underpinnings biology is still stupidly complicated, so it wouldn't be instant mastery; but it's the kind of thing that might produce the feedback loop you describe.

This section of rules is incorrect. A ninjutsu can be cast out-of-turn if and only if it contains the "Reflexive" tag. We will update the rules document accordingly.
Thanks! What I expected, but thought I should check.

@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien Couple more questions, sorry:
  1. Could we get the strain costs of Weapons ratings added to the rules (under "Jutsu Design System: Strain and Chakra Cost")? In more recent ninjutsu, Weapons ratings have a strain cost (in addition to the strain cost of Effect): however, from reading the main Rules document, it's described as if Effect automatically confers a Weapons rating, and there's no mention of separate costs for Weapons ratings.
  2. If it's not too much trouble, could we get the spec for Fire Bullet added to the Known Jutsu document? I don't think we've ever actually seen it, and it would be nice to have a good reference for what the most basic ranged attack technique looks like. (For example, while I can guess that it's probably a Range 1 single target Attack ninjutsu with a casting time of Standard, I'm not sure whether it has a Weapons rating or how that scales if it does.) I'm assuming that, since Fire Bullet is such a basic technique, people on the team would know how it works even if no one actually knows the technique (and Tenten might, even if only at level 1).
 
Setting aside your current level of access to contract-buying resources, Kagome suspects he lacks the kind of reputational cachet with the Arachnids that would encourage them to form contracts to be tortured to death for his sake. Among other things, he has yet to prove himself to them, either in combat or by doing anything about the Great Seal (the reason he was made summoner at all).

@eaglejarl @Paperclipped

Didn't he scribe and help set up the skyslicer seals that killed one and a half (two and a half?) dragons?

Also, hasn't he been the one making sure that HOWS are being reapplied to stop the seal from degrading any further? Oooof Orochimaru is going to be annoyed now that he has to do that.
 
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We were always Zabuza the whole time.

All of us were Zabuza the whole time.

Except for Akane, who is actually Itachi Uchiha.

I am pretty sure @Velorien is ^_^ or at least part of It.

Also, Kagome was always Itachi:
"I must thank you, children," one of the figures announced in a soft, slightly sibilant voice. "After all these years, I never expected some random missing-nin to be the key that finally led the Brotherhood of the Sacred Immortal Eight-Headed Serpent to Kagome Yū… or should I say Uchiha Itachi?"

You're slipping Clwonboy. :^)

edit: :ninja: ninja'd, but I provided a quote.
 
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I think you may be overlooking the complicating factor that Itachi is actually Kagome.
I am pretty sure @Velorien is ^_^ or at least part of It.

Also, Kagome was always Itachi:


You're slipping Clwonboy. :^)

edit: :ninja: ninja'd, but I provided a quote.
I was referring to this, actually:
WORDS FOR THE WORD THRONE! (Somewhat half-baked but hey, it made me giggle and I'm tired.)

Mini-Omake: Constant Vigilance!

Mari discreetly checked the messenger seal on the flap concealed on the inner surface of her bra, like she'd done a million times since this damned missing nin business started.

Akane butted into her field of view from the side. "Eh, Mari-sensei, what's that? Didn't Kagome-sensei say never to put seals on fabric, 'cuz they don't come out even and stuff?"

Mari froze. The rest of the team was turning to look at her, as if in slow motion. She had to act now, take out the biggest threat - Keiko.

As Zabuza dropped his petite but well-endowed redhead henge and returned to his full, towering height, he swung his mighty blade overhead from out of a storage seal tattooed on his back -

Only to have it blocked by an identical sword, as Zabuza poofed out from Kei's similarly petite form.

There was a moment of stunned silence.

"Wait, you guys are Zabuza too??" asked Noburi.

"C'mon, seriously! I thought I was special!" whined Hazou.

"Oh unholy Jashin this is ridiculous. Seriously, what are the chances that we're all Zabuza?" asked Mari-Zabuza

"I'm not." The one that looked like Akane raised her hand. "I'm actually Itachi Uchiha," she said, managing to keep a completely straight face.

Everyone shared a good laugh at that. Then Itachi dropped his henge and killed them all, because that's what happens when you let your guard down in a rational ninja deathworld.

You die.

Sleep tight
 
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