- Location
- Yes.
I want to make a snappy retort to this, but "they're dropping like flies" seems a bit inappropriate.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
If Orochimaru researches a 1000 times magnification microscope rune does he break open the setting?
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Also possible she intentionally used a real slip for social combat!
They get killed by S-rank opponents in conflicts Hazou manipulated them into?
- Location
- Texas
I think this is wrong based on other jutsu we have as examples. You can add better weapon ratings, better range, better AoE, aspect generation, built-in bonuses to the roll, extra advantages against elements, armor piercing, lingering wounds, etc etc.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
An anonymous whale for Hokage!Quest (or maybe Tower!Quest?) bought Hazo as a Patreon-enabled variance amplifier. There is endless recrimination about whether the whale has broken the simulation because the thread cannot decide whether Hazo's net effect is positive or negative so far. Whether it is good or bad, a roll on the Hazo Die is guaranteed to make things different for Leaf.
Huh. For it to even matter whether a ninja killed a civilian means they have more protection than I thought. Institutional inertia from Yagura beating into ninja's noggins not to damage the resources of the state?
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Huh, that's actually younger than I'd thought. I'd estimated 25-27 at the start of the quest, since she'd been reporting twenty-mumble from the beginning. But she was actually 22-23 at the time?
Good policy on her part! Consider: if she only started doing that when she's 25+, then people who know this policy would be able to accurately pinpoint her age to late twenties. But by starting to do it at twenty, she makes it genuinely impossible to narrow it down to anything more accurate than "between 20 and 30-ε"!
Good foresight, good ability to coordinate with herself across time.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Additionally, this confuses anyone that wants to judge her proficiency in combat off of her age.
Good OPSEC, too!
- Location
- United States
That once they take hat and become someone we can rely on they get nerfed? /s
I wonder how she was when she said she was "twenty mumble"
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- Location
- United States
@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien
Now that we're off dungeon delving, I am incredibly interested in seeing whether or not Wind Shaper (the mysterious parallel to EarthShaping that Kei learned at the Library) would be a good defensive ninjutsu for her.
I noticed a detail in the ninjutsu description document that seems a little off to my understanding of game balance.
Would you mind confirming that these are indeed supposed to be (Level) Durability and not (AB) Durability?
Additionally, how does having multiple barrier interact with an attack? If an attack gets through your first barrier, is it weakened and plausibly able to be stopped by the second barrier? Or, is having multiple copies of the same strength barrier completely useless for purposes of defending yourself from strong attacks?
Now that we're off dungeon delving, I am incredibly interested in seeing whether or not Wind Shaper (the mysterious parallel to EarthShaping that Kei learned at the Library) would be a good defensive ninjutsu for her.
I noticed a detail in the ninjutsu description document that seems a little off to my understanding of game balance.
Would you mind confirming that these are indeed supposed to be (Level) Durability and not (AB) Durability?
Additionally, how does having multiple barrier interact with an attack? If an attack gets through your first barrier, is it weakened and plausibly able to be stopped by the second barrier? Or, is having multiple copies of the same strength barrier completely useless for purposes of defending yourself from strong attacks?
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All of those things will make the technique cost more chakra, meaning it won't be strictly better. That's the whole point of this discussion we've been having; obviously you can make a technique with strictly better effects than Fire Bullet, I don't understand how you could have modelled me as believing otherwise.
coldcutconvict said:
- Medical ninjutsu uses chakra and 1000 year outdated bio theories to get results similar to modern medicine. Weaker in some areas, stronger in others.
- Medical jutsu give better tools of observation than historic doctors had access to. Chakra weirdness adds degrees of freedom, makes empirical discovery more challenging, adds another organ system + bloodlines to the balance.
- Outdated bio theories. How much doctor ninjutsu is wasted on placebo or worse?
- Magical herbs? Magical disease.
- Cadaver study.
- Not much study into the brain.
- No treatment for mental illness.
- On the other hand, biopuppets.
- Not much study into the brain.
- Most pressure for scientific discovery is on treatments for traumatic combat injuries.
- Blunt trauma. Blood loss. Broken bones. Elemental burns + shocks.
- How does the healing work?
- Enhance natural recovery mechanisms of body?
- Stimulate pluripotent stem cells?
- How does the healing work?
- Blunt trauma. Blood loss. Broken bones. Elemental burns + shocks.
- Feedback loop of true bio knowledge and direct observation and adjustment of medical ninjutsu in action is potent. Huge gains over modern medicine on the table.
- Better study of medicinal pathways of effect.
- Microscopy radical enough to observe chromosomes cracks open bloodline research. Traces of the Sage's work.
- Microorganisms. Structure of cells. Cell specialization.
- Compare development of embryos with or without bloodlines.
- Orochimaru will not be distracted from bio studies forever.
- With a strong microscope, Noburi gets there first? Warns us of dangers ahead.
- Location
- United States
Yes.
It's not something Orochimaru would want him to hide. Hell, it's something that Orochimaru probably would prefer be distributed to Konoha's forces (admittedly not to the point where he'd bother writing it down himself) in the unlikely event they're actually able to decrease his later workload of dealing with them.
I was very surprised that Naruto didn't already have a copy of that dossier.
Hmm. Ok.
Do we share the baseline assumption that Kabuto wouldn't give the dossier to the Tower unless Orochimaru explicitly ordered him to? (Given that Kabuto is loyal primarily to Oro, and given that if Kabuto wants Oro to trust him enough to tell him things he needs Oro not to expect him to leak those things to the tower.)
If we do; the follow-on from that for me is that my model of Oro says that, even if it would be beneficial to him to give the dossier to the Tower, he probably wouldn't think of it. I don't think he considers Naruto or the Tower as being worthy of his time, to the point where on the level of intuitive judgement he wouldn't think they could do anything meaningful to Akatsuki with the dossier that they couldn't do without. Even if the thought occurred to him, I think he would have just dismissed it as not being worth the hassle (as you say, he wouldn't have bothered writing it down himself) and I think he wouldn't have reevaluated that decision after the hassle was dramatically reduced by him already having a written copy.
I think that if Naruto had explicitly asked Oro for the same dossier he gave us, Oro would have given it to him (possibly with some grumbling), but I don't think Oro thinks of other people as being able to help him enough to think of giving the dossier to them on his own, not when it goes against a likely deeply-ingrained habit of "don't give stuff away for free". It's the same principle as HPMOR Harry not thinking that Hermione might have (minor spoiler) asked her soldiers for help coming up with ideas; Oro probably on some level thinks of the village of Leaf as a whole as a meat shield that occasionally inconveniences him, rather than a collection of peer agents who could produce useful ideas from detailed information about Akatsuki. He might have reconsidered that decision if Leaf were actually imminently going to engage Akatsuki, but until then it's something he could put off until later, and I think he would.
- Location
- United States
We do now. Earlier, I thought that Kabuto was absolute passing along information to Naruto. I mean, Orochiamru himself described their relationship as one of mutual benefit more than actual loyalty. It seemed to make sense that Kabuto was helping the village whenever doing so wouldn't actually endanger his relationship with Orochimaru.
I'm adjusting my model accordingly, now.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Because "milf" is just a state of mind 😎
I think the kind of knowledge you can get from a better microscope is relatively unlikely to kick off this kind of spiral, in fact. Breakdown below:
I think it's relatively unlikely that ninjutsu is being wasted on placebo. From what we've seen, a lot of medical procedures in MfD-world are based on inaccurate knowledge, as in the example below:
But what we've seen of medical ninjutsu makes it seem basically like using medical chakra to directly manipulate flesh, with chakra's own processing capacity handling the details of healing. The "mednin" stat doesn't seem to represent knowledge of a wide variety of medical jutsu, many of which are useless; instead, it seems mainly to represent skill with medical chakra, which acts as an endless toolbox for surgery, disinfection, etc.. That means there's probably limited scope for improvement in how the basic MedNin stat is used, without designing new and specialized medical techniques, because medical chakra probably doesn't have the control resolution for you to tell it "fix this person's genetic defect", even if you understand what DNA is, without a stupidly high MedNin that almost no one will actually have. (In particular, that Oro probably doesn't have; even he only has so many high-level pyramid slots.)
SImilarly, I think this feedback loop is unlikely, primarily because I don't think MedNin has high enough resolution for improvements in understanding to really matter. Specific techniques that rely on it are absolutely something you could investigate, and I wouldn't be too surprised if it were possible to create e.g. an organism-wide DNA editing technique, if you understand what DNA is; but that's not knowledge that you'd get from just having a microscope. It would require a huge amount of biochemical research, and I don't think medical ninjutsu is likely to help very much with accelerating that. Remember that MS8 was considered revolutionary by Noburi for medical work; that puts limits on how detailed the diagnostics medical ninjutsu gives you can be.
I'll give you this one; it's possible that people with certain bloodlines visibly have additional or altered chromosomes that would give an obvious starting point for understanding how bloodlines work. However, without the capacity to actually do genome mapping, I don't think Oro's likely to get very far researching that. Unlike in the real world, he can't use animal models because bloodlines are unique to humans and probably don't have anything in common with chakra beasts, and human generation times are far too long to do any kind of linkage mapping given the population sizes Oro has to work with; and as I said above, it would take a lot of hard biochemical work for him to get to the point of even understanding what DNA is, and I don't think medical ninjutsu is likely to help much with that. Remember, Oro probably doesnt even know what atoms are; he'd have to get pretty far into chemistry before he could start on biochemistry, and we have no real reason to think he's done that.
Of course, obvious caveat to the above is that Oro has access to sealing, biosealing, technique hacking, and now runecrafting as well, any of which might let him skip steps here. Still, I think he won't learn much that's new from building a runic microscope. (Though we should absolutely build a runic microscope as soon as we have some free time and decide to pick up biosealing, if not before, because we already know all the answers and can therefore run a much more expedited research program than Oro is likely to be able to. Plus, it would be super interesting to read.) Sealing can already produce extremely complex effects without the person designing the seal having the slightest idea how those effects work, it seems unlikely that more understanding would actually help that much.
Fake-edit: Thinking about it, actually, if Oro can make a rune that reveals that atoms exist (say, a rune that generates an interactable, zoomable map of a sample that's placed on top of it and has atomic resolution), we might be screwed. We should maybe do a prep day on a rune to that effect, just to get an idea of how hard it would be.
- Location
- USA
My comments on seals interacting with the Out were a mistake and will be retconned, sorry about that. Every sealing lineage has a different view on exactly what seals are and how they work. Kagome's lineage (which now includes Hazō) will tell you that chakra is like a sandbox, which can produce powerful effects but is ultimately limited to what the Sage wanted to be possible. By breaking out of the sandbox (analogy for player benefit, not something Kagome says: programming exploits), you can use tiny amounts of chakra to manipulate the raw magic of the universe directly. This can do things that ninjutsu can't (e.g. 5SB), but because you're working in a more powerful magic system, you can also cause catastrophic mistakes, up to but not necessarily including breaking holes Out of the universe.
Does Hazo have enough of Jiraiya's sealing material to get an idea of what his lineage thought of the question? Including the possibility of 'Yes, but we don't consider it relevant enough to simulate at the moment'.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
I was reading the rules document, and noticed this in the section on ninjutsu:
I was reading the rules document, and noticed this in the section on ninjutsu:
If I'm reading this correctly, this would mean that even techniques which aren't Reflexive (e.g. Cloak of the Wind God) could be used off-turn by burning two Supplementals instead of one. If accurate, this would be relevant to Kei especially (since she's starved for Supplementals early in a fight and being able to save one on her first turn by using her two from before it would be a significant benefit). Is this deprecated (e.g. does it predate the existence of Reflexive Casting) or does it still apply?
- Location
- United States
Is there going to be any change to Orochimaru's dialogue on this subject because of this ruling?
@eaglejarl @Velorien
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I sense a great shifting in the grue
