- Location
- United States
Can you add a line to the effect of:
- Optimize/practice with Mari. Afterwards, tell Asuma our workshopped plan and ask for approval/suggestions.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No, because IV is the author of the plan.
- Location
- United States
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
AMI: You want to see my sheet? Finally. I was starting to think I'd been too subtle these last two years.
HAZŌ: What are you--
AMI: Hurry, there's no time to waste!
The next morning, Ami's bedroom...
HAZŌ: As long as the mods and Kei don't find out, that was the best miscommunication ever.
- Location
- Yes.
I offer a mildy-shortened version of this section:
- Optimize/practice with Mari.
- Confirm the official story with Asuma, and get his approval for our plan.
Maybe this is just a continuation of my discomfort with Hazou going full technobabble, but my read of Hazou is that he probably wouldn't launch into it just like that. I feel that in order to make his segue into Isan's Sealing tradition we need to bridge [General info on Isan] to [Isan's Sealing tradition]. My suggestion is to ping Kagome's interactions with Yoshida, by saying that Yoshida's most recent letter/flirting/puzzle was a commonly-used seal that was made differently, and go further into why that is in order to bridge that gap.
So I'm concerned that this may prompt a Deceit check, since Asuma has done nothing of the sort. My best alternative may do the same, but I'm going to post it in case it interests you.
- If pressed by someone with authority: you've been thinking about the Isanese seals you've seen, and have only recently gotten around to examining them; but we've split between a couple of projects and, well...
So...are we pretending that the seals Hazou used are fully-functioning Isanese seals (since that's the only way they can propagate)? Because a) it sounds from earlier in the plan that the EM Nuke was a Sealing failure; and b) Itachi/Ami/whoever is talking to Hazou will rightly conclude that Hazou should be killed for the greater good.
Side note: Imagine if it were Yuno or Kagome who came asking.
- Location
- United States
There's no narrative reason to do this, which is kinda the concern with stagnancy. Unless Kei and Noburi were saying how they really need an excuse to stretch their fighting skills/they're feeling restless, why would they opt for intentionally placing themselves into avoidable danger. That would be illogical and unreasonable.
I think stagnancy plays an important role, but choosing for the characters to be dumb rather than doing the smart thing isn't the solution.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Added, thanks.
I think I got something that bridges the gap? It might be a little awkward, but I think it services to signal our intent.
You are... quite right that what I currently have would provoke a Deceit check. Your version looks a lot safer, so I've swapped it out for that.
The impression I have is that we're suggesting that the kind of sealing failure that produces the storm might be unique to Isan's sealing tradition. As in, we failed an Isan seal and got a storm, then someone in Isan failed a seal of their own (perhaps after cross-pollination with the EN's sealing tradition?) and got a storm of their own.
Looking at what I have a little more closely, I think that could be made more clear. How about "Get to Asuma even faster. Yes, you have theories as to what happened, but you need to talk to Asuma immediately. In the worst case, all research into Isanese seals needs to stop. You aren't saying anything further until you've spoken to Asuma."?
Current changes (most recent suggestion pending peer review):
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Removing this removes any reason that Hazo would feel guilty - if he's only just started with Isanese seals then they wouldn't have been involved in the storm.
Asuma will sign off and we can workshop something.
Putting something back in to keep everything tied together is going to be smart.
They'll know we lied, but not about what. Maybe we didn't destroy all our notes.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Ah, I see what you mean. We can't disguise the feeling of guilt, but we can redirect it into something non-incriminating. I'm not sure I agree that the current phrasing removes avenues for Hazou to feel guilty though: the storm was only about four months ago IC, which compared to the total time we've had the Isan seals is very recent. "I only recently started" feels consistent with the timeframe we're hinting at, especially since we easily admit that we haven't been to Isan in years and haven't had all that much contact with it since.
Still, I'm open to finding a more clear and solid way of expressing this, that doesn't include an outright lie. I personally think that being seen as consciously lying about something is a bad outcome, because it means not only are we hiding something but we're consciously aware that this is information that others cannot have, which looks worse than "he's not telling me the full story" imo. Knowing that there's a conspiracy of any kind at play already gets people way closer to the finish line than I'd like, and I don't want to give away a clue about that so easily.
- Location
- United States
I hate to say it but after we get Earth Infusion we should probably spend three or so weeks funneling FOOM XP into Deceit until we're high enough level to pass the "is there a secret to discover" passive checks.
There's now a lot of secrets we know that would be catastrophic if they got out.Plus it's the only way Ami will share any Forbidden Lore with us.
There's now a lot of secrets we know that would be catastrophic if they got out.
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Sure, I'd be okay with that.
- Location
- Yes.
I'm still ambivalent on it, since the implication is that Isan has somehow several hundred years of Sealing research without an nuclear-level Sealing failure, and they just now exploded. Within the same year that Hazou did the same thing.
Edit: Hm. Could we attempt to claim that the same Sealing failure was responsible for the EM Nuke test and Isan's destruction? Like, the literal same Sealing failure?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Gonna need more than a few weeks for that lmao
I don't think narrative is king here, the fights that unstagnated Hazou in Neck were a bunch of random chakra beast encounters in the Cave of Mild Peril, whose importance to the narrative became clear literal years later. We just need close fights with stakes to unstagnate. IMO it's illogical to stagnate when given the option not to when you live in a ninja deathworld and might be called on at any moment to fight.
Since this has gotten repeated pushback I want to expand my thoughts on this a little more.
This is the perfect opportunity to unstagnate. We are close to Leaf, so all our Summoners can retreat to the 7th Path if they get overwhelmed and wait for our friendly essies to extract us.
It also means we have access to infinite chakra to summon our combat summons and refill, unlike in the field where we'd need to pay with Nob's chakra that he can only refill by draining our ninja. That means we can afford chakra intensive things like having multiple summons out at once.
This is why I don't want to bring Yuno or Shinji, they can't retreat to the Seventh Path. So they'll be cut off if we need to pull an emergency retreat.
There will be no better opportunity to unstagnate in the near future. Since we need one now, I don't see how this is stupid. It's taking advantage of an opportunity that literally fell into our laps.
Since you aren't interested in discussing the topic the following is to convince the general thread audience, not you specifically, that I don't make unnecessarily overcomplicated arguments.
a) also complicated. but I expect people don't view them as complicated because they don't view assuming the more probable option as a step in the chain of logic, combined with their different priors causing to believe different options are the more probable one. For example, person A has a lightswitch that often works and person B has a lightswitch that often doesn't. Person A expect flipping a light switch they've never seen before to turn the light on and doesn't even consider that an assumption for Occam's razor, but Person B would say person A is assuming that mice haven't gnawed the electrical cords.
b) simple, but on net still just as unlikely as the complicated arguments. Because the fewer assumptions the simple argument makes, are very unlikely assumptions. and people disagree because they have different priors on how unlikely they are.
Also, I think that when I propose a complicated theory it will often be because I am trying to argue that a certain null hypothesis is incorrect. And I propose a complicated theory to explain why that could be. The focus is on saying the null hypothesis is incorrect, not that the specific theory I am proposing is correct. Therefore you should actually compare the combined likelihood of all theories that are not the null hypothesis, instead of the specific proposal I am saying. The specific proposal merely helps to get an idea of what likelihoods the alternative theories might have.
It might appear that this explanation is complicated, compared to the theory that I make unnecessarily overcomplicated arguments. But point b) apply for this as well.
I agree. However, this is a deviation from the existing rules (unless you want to be very technical/rules lawyery of what the rules imply). My theories were discussing the consequences if the rules remained unchanged.
My arguments are complicated but the alternatives to them are either
a) also complicated. but I expect people don't view them as complicated because they don't view assuming the more probable option as a step in the chain of logic, combined with their different priors causing to believe different options are the more probable one. For example, person A has a lightswitch that often works and person B has a lightswitch that often doesn't. Person A expect flipping a light switch they've never seen before to turn the light on and doesn't even consider that an assumption for Occam's razor, but Person B would say person A is assuming that mice haven't gnawed the electrical cords.
b) simple, but on net still just as unlikely as the complicated arguments. Because the fewer assumptions the simple argument makes, are very unlikely assumptions. and people disagree because they have different priors on how unlikely they are.
Also, I think that when I propose a complicated theory it will often be because I am trying to argue that a certain null hypothesis is incorrect. And I propose a complicated theory to explain why that could be. The focus is on saying the null hypothesis is incorrect, not that the specific theory I am proposing is correct. Therefore you should actually compare the combined likelihood of all theories that are not the null hypothesis, instead of the specific proposal I am saying. The specific proposal merely helps to get an idea of what likelihoods the alternative theories might have.
It might appear that this explanation is complicated, compared to the theory that I make unnecessarily overcomplicated arguments. But point b) apply for this as well.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Training Plan - Kei: Deceit
[X] Training Plan - Noburi: Mednin
[X]Action Plan: Dora the Explorer
As important as the [EM] plan is, I would be remiss to not also vote for the main action plan this cycle.
[X] Training Plan - Noburi: Mednin
[X]Action Plan: Dora the Explorer
As important as the [EM] plan is, I would be remiss to not also vote for the main action plan this cycle.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's like you know me or something.
Yes, this is precisely my headcanon. There has not been specific discussion among the QMs but I'm confident that @Velorien and @Paperclipped will either agree with this, or at least will not care if I write it like this when it's my update.
[X] [EM Nuke] Make them wish we said "No Comment"
[X] [EM] Make them wish we said "No Comment"
[X] Training Plan - Kei: Deceit
[X] Training Plan - Noburi: Mednin
Am I the only one worried that Hazou's headaches are another hint by the QMs that he is facing Out problems? I notice that it has not been discussed by the players despite two chapters in a row with mentions of those hints. Is it being ignored because it is not a concern (eg, the headaches are acknowledged as a temporary setback rather than being indicative of a more severe condition) ?
[X] [EM] Make them wish we said "No Comment"
[X] Training Plan - Kei: Deceit
[X] Training Plan - Noburi: Mednin
Am I the only one worried that Hazou's headaches are another hint by the QMs that he is facing Out problems? I notice that it has not been discussed by the players despite two chapters in a row with mentions of those hints. Is it being ignored because it is not a concern (eg, the headaches are acknowledged as a temporary setback rather than being indicative of a more severe condition) ?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
IIRC, there's no indication of permanent damage caused by SSA, according to the Stunt description.
If the QMs have decided that SSA should cause permanent damage, then I have faith that they'll tell us about that change OOC, before it impacts the narrative of the quest.
...Unless, of course, it's another case of unknown differing QM/Player unspoken assumptions, like with regard to Opsec around the Goketsu Clan Secrets.
Just in case you're not aware, Sealing Scroll Acolyte - the stunt that gives Hazou +24(!) to Sealing, means that all his research attempts give him a Mild Mental Consequence, those are the headaches mentioned in the chapter. We have been doing non-stop sealing for a while, so those headaches get mentioned in the narrative frequently.
Yup, I am aware of the mental consequences. I guess the increasing frequency of the mentions concerns me. Now that I think about it, lately there's also been repeated mentions of Hazou staring blank for a while at a time. I don't think it used to happen all that much? (edit: I realize I don't remember why I associate those blank stares with Out consequences, so it could have nothing to do with the subject. I guess it could simply point to Hazou needing a break from sealing research?)
My brain could simply be fixating on justifying my conclusion, but it sounds potentially important so I'd rather raise the flag lest we overlooked something.
That was my understanding as well, which is why I'm being cautious. It feels like the beginning of a trend toward worsening symptoms, so I wanted to see if I was overlooking something myself.
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Seems easy enough to answer, imo.
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @Paperclipped
Are y'all trying to narratively signal something about SSA that the playerbase should be picking up on, or are you simply displaying the known headaches from SSA?
Gōketsu Hazō uses his finishing move
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
A new type of entry from the illustrious annals of @RandomX2, by norvegicus rat:
View: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r-YdOuqEryrZFaVCOlpc-2mXibGVGzQe/view?usp=drive_link
View: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r-YdOuqEryrZFaVCOlpc-2mXibGVGzQe/view?usp=drive_link