- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They originally caught wind because somebody had left signs of being camped out doing research near the rift, and you're the only other person who knows about the rift.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
[X] An Interview With Akatsuki
- In essence, join Akatsuki
- In practice, we can always nuke them later. Especially if we learn about them now
- Come ooooon, we're being accused of treason regardless
- Reveal we reinvented lithosealing, justifying seventh path access - we actually did make progress, more than anyone else did in that year... or maybe in the last thousand.
- Claim the bounty.
- Thesis: if you're going to make it so I need you in order to have any access, I'll show you that you also need mein order to have any chance of getting there.
- By the way, empowering me would really help you out in the long run as well.
- We are not permanently sacrificing anyone in our family to join. If we defect to Akatsuki, some of the other Gōketsu may well die as a direct consequence of that. If that happens we're putting them on the fast resurrection track. If it threatens to happen, we think about exfiltrating them.
Note that I'm not claiming in any way that this is a good plan, rationally speaking. I just think it would be supremely enjoyable
- Location
- U.S.
Add on to this that, if the answer is "yes we're going to kill you", then obviously we should just go with them and swear to cooperate fully, without planning to betray them or such. Death would be a much worst third option.
Although, I suppose that would just tempt Itachi to say that he would kill us regardless... but that still seems like the better option. Maybe don't mention the cooperation until after Itachi answers? Not really sure what level you'd need to play at to avoid him bluffing here.
Also, wouldn't the dispel maybe piss him off? If this is a genjutsu from someone in Leaf, we're already getting killboxed. If it's a genjutsu from him, we're just going to disrupt his communication with us. We can't win a fight with him, genjutsu or otherwise. He has the eyes of "no fuck you, 1000 years torture".
Actually I retract my previous point, I got a bit ahead of myself.
What's stopping us from turning necromancy and dragonwar both into an official AMITY thing? Then we don't have to leave in disgrace, and can actually lead both projects because we motherfucking started both projects ourselves, pulled up by our bootstraps and everything.
Tell Itachi "We're both too small-brained to do this in a way that lets both sides get what they want, so let's bring Ami into this conversation. You guys trust her, I trust her, and she knows about necromancy because she's just That Damn Smart."
What's stopping us from turning necromancy and dragonwar both into an official AMITY thing? Then we don't have to leave in disgrace, and can actually lead both projects because we motherfucking started both projects ourselves, pulled up by our bootstraps and everything.
Tell Itachi "We're both too small-brained to do this in a way that lets both sides get what they want, so let's bring Ami into this conversation. You guys trust her, I trust her, and she knows about necromancy because she's just That Damn Smart."
- Location
- Washington, USA
Would it be fair to say Pain's life is worth at least twice as much as Kakuzu's, far as Itachi is concerned? Go to Tsunade and offer to hire Hazo and Kagome for a year-long S-rank mission involving using their dimensionalism research to rescue Akane "and some other people, including but not limited to Leaf citizens," paying normal per-diem rates up front, and upon success, reversing territorial concessions - that is, as much land as Leaf would have lost, they instead take from Rain. It'd definitely look suspicious as hell, but it's got a veneer of legitimacy. If it was just an exfiltration why would they want Kagome, who's got no sign of being involved, but not the sneakier parts of Clan Goketsu? Given Leaf's precarious situation, interim hokage likely can't afford to reject such a deal outright, and if it works, it works.
ETA: Also, obviously, get Ami involved to help come up with a way to make the politics work. Sure it sounds impossible, but she loves that kind of challenge.
ETA: Also, obviously, get Ami involved to help come up with a way to make the politics work. Sure it sounds impossible, but she loves that kind of challenge.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Personally, I think it's unlikely that there's a full-blown Akatsuki Essie permanently stationed at the rift site from here on out. That's a massive investment in manpower for a very long period of time when nothing ultimately important is happening. Rather, I expect them to have spies there, informants who keep track of the comings and goings and, as Velorien said, signs of people having come near recently. It's only once they open the rift themselves and start actively delving the afterlife that there would be cause to personally stay on O'Uzu, because now that's where all the action is.
That is to say, I think we can approach the rift without getting immediately countered by an Essie interrupt, with a relatively high degree of confidence. The odds are high that the information network then informs the Akatsuki that we're messing with the rift (unless we're really good at avoiding espionage or leaving signs) and then the Akatsuki come down on the site wrathfully, but that takes days of travel time, plenty of room for us to escape with the rift or go inside for a long-term mission or something. This dynamic of "Akatsuki knows we've won the race but can't get to us to take our gains" is what informs their likely followup actions of "demanding Leaf surrender Hazou to them on pain of destruction".
And point of order about Hidan, there's no way his abilities are that powerful, or he'd just have an answer about Akane the moment he got her blood. Hidan has the ability to track us at all times, which only means that once he actively tries to find us we can only truly hide by being on another plane, but it doesn't mean that he'll casually get a ping in his head while lounging about one day if we stray too close to the rift.
- Location
- United States
You forgot no FOOM.
You know, we can totally respond back with our knowledge of the TenFold Abomination and Ninshu. Even saying that Orochimaru refused to elaborate on it when we asked would be significant. Perfect lore probing opportunity here.
And we should DEFINITELY talk about the Tenfold Abomination and how the Dragons were originally created as battlesteeds for them.
Also let's please ask him to talk to Karanium about approaching the Arachnids.
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- Location
- U.S.
The problem is, there's a very obvious path forward once we tell Tsunade; she orders us to close the rift to prevent Pain from coming back. Akatsuki will know this, and it's possible that Tsunade could shirk the blame onto Hazo to avoid the retaliatory Leaf Total Party Wipe.
How do you counter this? Just guard the rift so that a squad of ninja can't sprint in and close it before anyone could defend it.
That depends. Exact position, sure, that seems unlikely. I overstated it there. But he just needs to know a compass direction, because the rift is quite far from Leaf. If he can get a answer along the lines of 'should I walk west or east to find Hazo' that would be enough to know Hazo left Leaf, which is not a thing that happens to a special jonin sealmaster with
edit: Fixed unnecessary shade on Hazo.
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I.. well, there is no nice way to say this... it seems... unnecessarily convulted.
The ruleset asks for... a lot of rolls and operations. It is quite complex and hard to memorize in order to apply it without referencing the rules, but all these complexities do not seem to add the kind of depth that one could not add with a simpler, more streamlined approach. I know that this is not an enthusiastic endorsement of the rule change, but it is my first impression reading it and I can't help but share it.
The current implementation assigns Shifts and TN to Consequences, and the process of healing consists of running dozens of - daily, mind you - operations on the two variables until a sane-looking result is reached. Why not instead make it a formula which reaches that result directly? You mentioned that Shifts are meant to be meaningful, but since Consequences heal day by day and the rate of healing needs variability, if they are to consist of Shifts, they need to consist of a large amount of them. The two cannot be fully reconciled, only reach a brittle compromise.
I would like to give honest point-to-point feedback and I don't want to come across as mean, or raining on the whole parade. I just genuinely believe the rule change has a large host of issues in its current shape or form and could use an overhaul into something much simpler, rather than small adjustments. I have little hope of that drastic a change happening, of course, as the current system doubtless took quite some work and tinkering, but I'll throw the suggestion in here anyway, and will give the feedback later, if (likely once) it is rejected. Without further ado :
[Consequences]
- Consequences last 24 (Mild) / 240 (Medium) / 2400 (Severe) Hours, times the Roll inflicting them, divided by Physique or Resolve.
- Consequences heal twice as quickly while Resting (no or minimal related activity over the last 24h).
- Every hour of Consequence-related streneous activity extends it by 3h (capped at nitial duration).
- Taking Stress extends all related Consequences by 24 hours per point (capped at initial duration).
[Medical Knowledge]
Understanding and application of biology and pharmacology. Can be rolled against TN to assist the body's natural healing processes, helping a patient to recover from Physical Consequences more quickly or try and fix chronic health problems.
The ability to use chakra to manipulate biology, usually for the purposes of healing. Using this skill, a medic can stabilize those on the brink of death and heal physical aliments, whether their own or those of others, a process which in absence of special considerations requires touch.
Medical Ninjutsu can Stabilize a Dying character. Characters are Dying but not yet Dead if their Physical Stress exceeds their Stress Track by no more than their Physique AB. Dying characters suffer 1 Stress per minute. Stabilizing is a "Half a Minute" task and requires a Treatment Plan.
- Consequences last 24 (Mild) / 240 (Medium) / 2400 (Severe) Hours, times the Roll inflicting them, divided by Physique or Resolve.
- Consequences heal twice as quickly while Resting (no or minimal related activity over the last 24h).
- Every hour of Consequence-related streneous activity extends it by 3h (capped at nitial duration).
- Taking Stress extends all related Consequences by 24 hours per point (capped at initial duration).
[Medical Knowledge]
Understanding and application of biology and pharmacology. Can be rolled against TN to assist the body's natural healing processes, helping a patient to recover from Physical Consequences more quickly or try and fix chronic health problems.
- Roll MedKnow vs TN to diagnose a patient and prepare a Treatment Plan. Common ills range Average (TN 10) to Fair (TN 20) while exotics can be Fantastic (TN 60) and beyond.
- Preparing a Treatment Plan is a "10 Minutes" (Time Ladder 6) task, moveable up to 3 steps up ("A few Hours" - TL 9) or down ("Half a Minute" - TL 3) for AB-based modifiers per Hurrying/Being Careful rules.
- While the patient heeds their Treatment Plan, the Consequence gains +5% Healing Rate per Shift. This is multiplicative with Resting (2x) and can harm recovery if the Plan Failed.
- A doctor can (doesnt have to) revise their Treatment Plan by repeating the process, after no less than a day has passed.
The ability to use chakra to manipulate biology, usually for the purposes of healing. Using this skill, a medic can stabilize those on the brink of death and heal physical aliments, whether their own or those of others, a process which in absence of special considerations requires touch.
- Healing Consequences requires a Treatment Plan, which can be prescribed by another character, but only if the acting mednin is made sufficiently aware of its details.
- Roll MedNin vs Physique daily when Healing. Healing is a "An Hour" (Time Ladder 8) task, moveable up to 3 steps up ("A Day" - TL 11) or down ("Several Minutes" - TN 5) for AB-based modifiers per Hurrying/Being Careful rules.
- If Healing Succeeds, its target Consequence gains +10% Healing Rate per Shift, added to the effects of its Treatment Plan for the day, or subtracted if said Plan Failed as misguided healing is actively harmful. If multiple mednin work the same injury or aliment over the day, only the most potent effect applies.
Medical Ninjutsu can Stabilize a Dying character. Characters are Dying but not yet Dead if their Physical Stress exceeds their Stress Track by no more than their Physique AB. Dying characters suffer 1 Stress per minute. Stabilizing is a "Half a Minute" task and requires a Treatment Plan.
- Roll MedNin vs TN Physique. Success heals Stress equal to the result in Shifts, or deals twice that much Stress if the Treatment Plan was a Failure as the misguided healing is actively harmful.
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- Location
- United States
- Offer to arrange parley with Enma.
- He considers DRAGONWAR an existential threat. All options are on the table.
Bruh you're currently threatening Leaf with annihilation. Make this a condition.
- Ask Itachi to talk to Karanium about approaching the Arachnids.
- Location
- Pacific standard
I really, really want to talk about how Jiraiya literally pulled Amity together in like 20 minutes while in the middle of something else in order to go get the entire fricken ENs to go punch the Akatsuki.
Jiraiya was trying to bring peace the slow way when he was interrupted by Pain. That matters. Akatsuki fixing that by pulling Jiraiya out would matter more.
Itachi can make this much, much harder for Leaf by killing Hazou right here, you really want him to do that? That seems like a possible outcome of this plan.
OTOH if we can get a collab going that would be amazing. So this is a high-risk high-reward plan.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Enma already divorced Kumo
Yeah, after the loredump I don't think I have any issue cooperating with Akatsuki, other than securing the wellbeing of our family.
I think we need to share 3D Sealing right now to convince Itachi of our value and make him realize that we did make progress in the research - exceedingly huge progress at that - and we need to share this before making any further suggestions or demands, as that would explosively increase the odds that Itachi listens to and accepts them.
I think we need to share 3D Sealing right now to convince Itachi of our value and make him realize that we did make progress in the research - exceedingly huge progress at that - and we need to share this before making any further suggestions or demands, as that would explosively increase the odds that Itachi listens to and accepts them.
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- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Is there anything you think I'm saying in my plan which would be news to Itachi? The only way that he hasn't reached these conclusions, IMO, is if this all happened way too fast for him to have thought through any of this.
Almost having wished for our death means that might be the case but presumably they've been wargaming this internally for a while.
If he says 'yes we're going to just kill you' then the two outcomes are that we're dead or we're kidnapped here and now. I suspect they'd kidnap us and execute us later if necessary but if the plan is to kill us given anything other than an enthusiastic yes, that window closed.
I don't think that trying to bluff him is a smart play, period. As a rule of thumb, I personally prefer not to bluff people without cards in my hand, even if they're bad ones.
Changed this.
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- Location
- United States
Why on earth would he banish himself from Arachnid and prevent his participation in The Final Battle?
- Location
- U.S.
Okay, I've updated this plan. It should mostly be the same in specifics, i've just tried to make the wording more concise, added assisting talking points, tailored it towards being a conversation, and less like a outline.
Now elaborates on Lithosealing! People asked for it extensively.
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually a Fleshed Out Action Plan
Word Count: ???
Now elaborates on Lithosealing! People asked for it extensively.
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually a Fleshed Out Action Plan
Word Count: ???
- Invoke CCnJ
- We would like to accept. Joining Akatsuki would align strongly with our goals, and it's only because of the severe consequences to the Dragonwar, our family, and our clan that we can't immediately accept.
- Respectfully, we think you are underestimating our abilities as a Sealsmaster, and with it, our importance to the Dragonwar.
- We have rediscovered Lithosealing, the art of creating potent 3-dimensional seals like the Great Seal.
- We are the only person in Leaf, and maybe the world, who knows how to do this.
- We have memorized the exact details of the Great Seal thanks to our bloodline and Arachnid sacrifices. We have the best understanding of it out of anyone in Leaf.
- We have collaborated with Orochimaru as peers.
- We have talked shop a dozen meters beneath the feet of Dragons, kept up with and critiqued his research papers with minimal effort, and we've worked alongside him in his lab.
- "We have the secret knowledge, the skill, and the bloodline. The Great Seal will be fixed by our hand."
- We have rediscovered Lithosealing, the art of creating potent 3-dimensional seals like the Great Seal.
- As you can see, we have important reasons to stay in contact with the summon path and contribute to the Dragonwar. With this in mind, we would like to try to find a compromise that allows us to work with you for Resurrection, and also allows us to continue to fight the Dragonwar.
- We are both reasonable people trying to achieve the same things, surely we can find a solution.
- Not to mention, if we stay in good standing with Leaf and the Summon Clans, we could help bring Akatsuki into the Dragonwar.
- Enma is taking this seriously, we think he'd be open to a parley with you.
- If you are willing to talk to Karanium, we could get the Crows and the Arachnids into negotiations.
- First, do we have permission to invite Ami? Ami is a third party who is trusted by both of us, and a world-class expert at finding third options in tricky political situations. We strongly believe that this situation would be better resolved with her help.
- Ami is OPSEC safe, we can trust her with this.
- That said, lets not put her in a awkward position. We should tell her that Akatsuki wants to publicly cooperate with Hazo on a project without compromising the Dragonwar, and don't mention treason or necromancy.
- If she comes to her own conclusions about the situation, well, she can be trusted to keep them to herself.
- If we can't invite Ami, here are a few ideas.
- #1: What if we made resurrection a AMITY project?
- Publicly announce that the next AMITY project is opening the rift and reviving the dead.
- Gains the assistance of Orochimaru and Hazo, as well as any contributors from other AMITY members.
- Any revivals must be someone who will positively impact the world, or swear to uphold AMITY.
- Akatsuki will swear not to unilaterally perform super-rituals.
- AMITY gets more force for peace, everyone else gets their loved ones back.
- Definitely bring in Ami for troubleshooting if we go with this.
- #2: If that doesn't work, then lets revisit our prior discussion. You could demand Hazo from Leaf as a concession.
- You have Leaf over a barrel. You can change the deal.
- Call it a head for a head, or whatever other reasoning you choose.
- Leaf took someone valuable from you, so you take someone valuable from Leaf.
- Call it a head for a head, or whatever other reasoning you choose.
- Leaf won't want to disown us if we're still assisting with the Dragonwar.
- This plan costs you nothing.
- Although, relaxing the concessions could sweeten the deal.
- Also, this is a little selfish of us... but would there be any way to ask any of our family to come with us?
- None of them may even agree, this would be a big commitment. But it would help our peace of mind in a land unfamiliar to us.
- You have Leaf over a barrel. You can change the deal.
- If none of those work and we have to choose... then we will accept.
- We want many things. We want to stop the Dragonwar. We want world peace. We want to save our loved ones. And the best option for all of these is to join Akatsuki. We accept.
- But please, if you can, if there's any flexibility in your plan for getting us out of Leaf... reduce the impact on our loved ones and our clan.
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- Location
- Fifth Dimension
[X] An Interview With Akatsuki
Seems more sensible than the other plan which is...practically begging Itachi to kill us.
Wouldn't mind a plan that floats the idea for Itachi to take us and Goketsu as 'prisoners' as part of the price for Kakuzu's death. I'd make said plan but then it'd be guaranteed to get no votes so....
EDIT: And one just popped up. Even if I disagree with revealing 3D sealing.
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually A Fleshed Out Action Plan
Seems more sensible than the other plan which is...practically begging Itachi to kill us.
Wouldn't mind a plan that floats the idea for Itachi to take us and Goketsu as 'prisoners' as part of the price for Kakuzu's death. I'd make said plan but then it'd be guaranteed to get no votes so....
EDIT: And one just popped up. Even if I disagree with revealing 3D sealing.
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually A Fleshed Out Action Plan
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped Does Hazō know if he'll be expected to do something immediately after this conversation ends? e.g. is the clan council meeting ongoing, or will Tsunade demand an immediate debrief?
- Location
- United States
Would this be in addition to the bounty XP or…?
- Pronouns
- He/Him