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Ah, but you see, Hazou is not duplicating the entirety of himself; he's merely creating another living terminal in the Painted World. There is no contradiction with Hazou perceiving the truth of Reality and Hazou duplicating his consciousness, for what others perceive as a duplication of the entire self is merely the duplication of the hands by which the true Hazou enacts his change upon the Painted World.
What serves as a determinant for whether or not those terminals don't also exist as split tendrils up to their planned termination points? What prevents the terminals from seeking means to extend themselves further in time-space by manipulating events to prevent their re-collection into the main trunk?
 
What serves as a determinant for whether or not those terminals don't also exist as split tendrils up to their planned termination points? What prevents the terminals from seeking means to extend themselves further in time-space by manipulating events to prevent their re-collection into the main trunk?
I'd hope that The MindHive would let said split happen conditional on it not causing terrible things to happen.
 
I mean, let's look at all the revelations we are currently not inflicting on Hazou.
- He doesn't really know his mother and he probably never will.
- He's the kind of person who's fascinated by Orochimaru's horrors even as he's disgusted by them.
- He's pretty OK with people dying so long as they aren't people he knows.
- He's actually still the kind of person who thinks of others as "skinwastes".
- He weaponizes things instinctively.
- He's socially terrible in a lot of ways and doesn't know how to relate to others.
- He'll never be able to have expressions just flow from his heart rather than be things he chooses to wear, like clothes.
- He doesn't know what he's doing and he's not really in control.
- He comes up with brilliant ideas but can never depend on them, they just kind of happen to him.
- There is a part of him that considers no price too high for the world he desires.
- He's simultaneously too old and too young, a creature that doesn't fit in society and can't really relate to anyone.
- He talks a big game, but still has issues actually caring about people. He seems to treat everyone as cute pets, not people worth listening to.
- Like Keiko, he uses intellectualism as a defense mechanism.
- He wants to speak his heart but he's become a liar to do it.
- He's scared shitless of a lot of the things he's done to himself.
-
He's seen the Out and it feels in some ways more natural to him than life in this world.
Etc, etc. I could go on.

Right, but I don't really see how thats pertinent to the Shadow Clone thing?

Perhaps I'm just being really dumb.
 
There really aren't many times I see proper neurodivergent mindsets done in fiction.
Or truly alternate mindsets at all. Even aliens are just repainted humans.

So the fact that this story decides to tackle the implications of mind-altering techniques, and interactions between them...
I just wish to say I appreciate this story.
 
Was it anything she hadn't already learned from Naruto?

I'm fairly sure it's still treason, even if an S-rank does it(Of course, you actually need to enforce it against said S-ranker), but more importantly, does this means that Keiko at her current Chakra level can use SC? And does this means we have an actual objective as far as Chakra Reserve goes instead of "High-Jonin level"?....Interesting.
 
... I don't think shadow clone users have to face this level of high-intensity introspection, normally.

Non-bloodline people see a copy of themselves. Outside of looking in the mirror and knowing you only get a short amount of life before merging with your past self, there isn't that much difference. Sure, some people will get Snowflakes, but most will just get Naruto #2 (and I mean 2nd, not 4272nd).

Keiko has Frozen Skein, Snowflake does not. One is mentally impaired in creative thought (and all the self-loating tied to that), other is not. Getting a moment of clarity and knowing that all that comes after you is a limited copy of yourself, stuck in their personal hell? Yeah, extreme therapy is an obvious choice here.

Hazo has Iron Nerve, but that doesn't influence his mind (directly anyway). There is no leap of mental ability, or fundamental change in cognition (outside of Out-related shenanigans, I guess).
Also, that other Hazo? He'll be distracted by trying to quickly learn how to breathe and stand up straight while simultaneously remembering to clench his sphincter muscles. He'll be half-immobile, defenseless (emotionally as well- no poker face to hide behind) and probably at least a bit scared of dying (Prophet or not).
That... okay, that will be one hell of a meeting. Just not the kind of meeting that Keiko got right now.
 
... So if Keiko can learn Shadow clone, and Akane has higher CP than Keiko, you know what that means?

Let the Youthful and Sane times roll!

(Pending Akane's rapport with Naruto, I suppose.)
 
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I'm fairly sure it's still treason, even if an S-rank does it(Of course, you actually need to enforce it against said S-ranker),
I think Ami must have had enough evidence to figure it out, if anything via the Naruto Communication Network during the initial disaster response. That worked via long-range clone information transfer. On the other hand, Keiko's use of SC didn't involve use of chakra sharing , so that's still under wraps.

Edit: Also, why does the taijutsu spec have more chakra than the summoner?
 
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I think Ami must have had enough evidence to figure it out, if anything via the Naruto Communication Network during the initial disaster response. That worked via long-range clone information transfer. On the other hand, Keiko's use of SC didn't involve use of chakra sharing , so that's still under wraps.

Edit: Also, why does the taijutsu spec have more chakra than the summoner?
because she's our pocket nuke

I mean, it would be very YOUTHFUL to use Pantokrator's Hammer for extra Youthful Fist of the Mythological Beast That's Really Strong and Tough for multiple rounds, of course!
 
I think Ami must have had enough evidence to figure it out, if anything via the Naruto Communication Network during the initial disaster response. That worked via long-range clone information transfer. On the other hand, Keiko's use of SC didn't involve use of chakra sharing , so that's still under wraps.

Edit: Also, why does the taijutsu spec have more chakra than the summoner?
Back when we were allocating XP for the time we had been away, I got Akane up to CR 20 to nicely fulfill the chakra demands she might experience. Then, more recently, Akane had a few hundred XP to spend from a combination of leftover XP from the earlier breadth and other time before and after adoption, and we started talking about how much CR was plausible.

We ran some calcs about how much chakra she might spend over the course of a fight, and figured that while CR 20 was pretty much fine it would also make sense for her to go the extra mile to CR 25 and be able to go full-throttle all the time and not have to worry about wearing out. From there, we had enough XP gained after she got adopted to, monofocusing on CR, get the rest of the way up to 30.
So, naturally the most optimal thing to do with Akane's new XP is to invest it in CR so she can get closer to Shadow Clone. With 826 XP we can bring her up to CR 34 and almost be at our benchmark.

However, most of that XP was likely from before Akane was a Goketsu and knew that Shadow Clone was on the table. If we wanted to treat Akane's build like the ~500 XP she just got was from such a position of blindness, I would suggest we follow the next steps of my build plan and work on EM 20, Flame Aura 30, and then Trapmaking and Alertness. That said, the specifics would be trickier because my skill column projections assumed CR moved up to 30, so I'd have to take another look at things.

So, should we allocate the XP as we please, or should we assume a position of Shadow Clone blindness and train ordinary stuff instead?

(Also if we wanted EM 40 it would cost 662.5 XP but there's no compelling IC reason for Akane to buff EM that far and it might even contradict the saltern scenes)

edit:
Considering discussion on discord about what the reasonable bounds of what Akane could have wanted CR trained to, I calculated that in a five-round fight with one cast of EM and Flame Aura and full Chakra Boosting Akane would spend just over 200 CP, which means that I feel CR 25 is fairly justifiable for what Akane could want to level her chakra to. That would take 230 XP, leaving 270 for other miscellaneous expenditures. From there we can then spend the ~326 post-adoption XP all on CR, bringing her up to 30 CR while still being within the bounds of reasonableness.

How's that sound?
 
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@Velorien, what was the nature of this input? What seals/traps did he use based on it, how did he arrange them, what protocols did he adopt?
Make sure there is a three-dimensional exit route that doesn't require stopping to disable traps (Kagome was not happy with this because any exit route is also an entrance route), have multiple redundancies for collapsing the cave at various points, lots of force walls rather than explosives ("if you collapse the cave by accident, I guarantee that you personally will not survive"), stun effects (Kagome used earbursters), bidirectional triggers... Hazō zoned out after that because of the pretty four-dimensional fractals.
 
I mean, let's look at all the revelations we are currently not inflicting on Hazou.
  1. - He doesn't really know his mother and he probably never will.
  2. - He's the kind of person who's fascinated by Orochimaru's horrors even as he's disgusted by them.
  3. - He's pretty OK with people dying so long as they aren't people he knows.
  4. - He's actually still the kind of person who thinks of others as "skinwastes".
  5. - He weaponizes things instinctively.
  6. - He's socially terrible in a lot of ways and doesn't know how to relate to others.
  7. - He'll never be able to have expressions just flow from his heart rather than be things he chooses to wear, like clothes.
  8. - He doesn't know what he's doing and he's not really in control.
  9. - He comes up with brilliant ideas but can never depend on them, they just kind of happen to him.
  10. - There is a part of him that considers no price too high for the world he desires.
  11. - He's simultaneously too old and too young, a creature that doesn't fit in society and can't really relate to anyone.
  12. - He talks a big game, but still has issues actually caring about people. He seems to treat everyone as cute pets, not people worth listening to.
  13. - Like Keiko, he uses intellectualism as a defense mechanism.
  14. - He wants to speak his heart but he's become a liar to do it.
  15. - He's scared shitless of a lot of the things he's done to himself.
  16. - He's seen the Out and it feels in some ways more natural to him than life in this world.
Etc, etc. I could go on.
Let me go through those:
1, 2, 5, 11 aren't things the clone should have a different perspective on compared to the original.
3 has a good chance to not be relevant to the first meeting
4, 10, 12, may be the types of hypocrisy visible from the outside if it comes up in conversation.
6 is definitely something he'll notice.
7 will screw over the first clone massively. But that won't be something the clone will use against us, it will be something that the clone will try to deal with while Hazō (who due to us will have planned for this eventuality) does his best to help.
8 might be noticed the first time a clone gets told to do something by the original. Especially if they happen to disagree due to, say, having a slightly different balance of plan votes. Or however that works.
9 May be massive. Not to mention interesting. But it heavily depends on how the QMs judge the hivemind to work in relation to Shadow Clones. If it is simply gone like Frozen Skein or other Bloodlines and if, on top of that said lack is imminently noticeable as more than just being objectively less creative in a subjectively opaque way, then Hazō will literally believe to be possessed by an Out entity.
13 isn't something I noticed and I'm not sure I agree now that you've pointed it out.
14 I don't know if the clone will notice or what it might do about it. Hazō will definitely see through all kinds of bullshit. Similar to 4, 10 and 12 I guess?
15 Maybe clone Hazō will call meat Hazō a massive idiot, for catharsis. But this isn't something unknown to Hazō.
16 The Out is a massive question mark. As it always is. We can't really speculate as to how that whole shizzle will interact with the Shadow Clone jutsu. Neither can anyone else. Which is a good reason for our clan to not allow us to learn the ability in the first place. Also, see my answer to 9.

To recap: Hazō's first clone will literally be handicapped. He will be able to see through most of Hazō's deceptions and hypocrisies, but not necessarily through his self-deceptions if they don't visibly come up. This may get overshadowed by the massive question marks that are Out/Hivemind related stuff.

Also, that other Hazo? He'll be distracted by trying to quickly learn how to breathe and stand up straight while simultaneously remembering to clench his sphincter muscles. He'll be half-immobile, defenseless (emotionally as well- no poker face to hide behind) and probably at least a bit scared of dying (Prophet or not).
I don't think it will be quite as bad. Hazō is able to (terribly) play the flute without his bloodline. So the clone may be almost as skilled as a civilian child at physical tasks if we are lucky.
 
Hazō zoned out after that because of the pretty four-dimensional fractals.
Mm-hm, something to thoroughly inquire about at a later point. Thank you.
@Evenstar, is this what you were talking about?
I'm very confident that it is. Referring to Snowflake as "Part of [Keiko]" is a reference to it; in the game, Part of Madeline is an anthropomorphic representation of the protagonist's psychological issues given form by a magic mountain; she serves as the antagonist, and her dynamic with the protagonist is somewhat similar to the one between Keiko and Snowflake.
 
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