Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Shrooms · Mar 11, 2022

Oneiros said:
Yes I would be interested in those sorts of deals. But once again the question was asking if we weren't going to get training would I be interested. And with that the answer is no

Ohhh you're right, I missed the detail in FS's comment.

I think I largely agree, we're already going to be rich again (or at least temporarily, knowing us) thanks to the silk trade, so the Kurosawa would need to be offering a lot more than just money. Our villages are already pretty tightly bound due to Ami, so all they have to offer us that aren't bloodline secrets is institutional Sealing knowledge. There aren't too many Sealing clans, or even clans that just consistently have a Sealmaster every generation, so the Kurosawa are probably sitting on some pretty good stuff regarding Seals. That's about the only thing I can imagine they have that we want that isn't bloodline-related. Hmm, maybe some jutsu designed to synergize with the IN? Could still argue that's bloodline related though.

Oneiros · Mar 11, 2022

Shrooms said:
Ohhh you're right, I missed the detail in FS's comment.

I think I largely agree, we're already going to be rich again (or at least temporarily, knowing us) thanks to the silk trade, so the Kurosawa would need to be offering a lot more than just money. Our villages are already pretty tightly bound due to Ami, so all they have to offer us that aren't bloodline secrets is institutional Sealing knowledge. There aren't too many Sealing clans, or even clans that just consistently have a Sealmaster every generation, so the Kurosawa are probably sitting on some pretty good stuff regarding Seals. That's about the only thing I can imagine they have that we want that isn't bloodline-related. Hmm, maybe some jutsu designed to synergize with the IN? Could still argue that's bloodline related though.

Honestly the one thing I would want from the Kurosawa outside of bloodline knowledge would be getting the human sealing printing press going. But that would probably require a bunch of political maneuvering and plotting which makes it a non starter for a lot of people

Sentient Tree · Mar 11, 2022

Velorien said:
She used to talk about how glad she was to have been born into that clan, because it means she could laze around on the beach rather than constantly fighting."

I already like their old summoner. We should resurrect her to hang out.

Sentient Tree · Mar 11, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Re: trade, are you at all interested in mundane trade, or are you specifically angling to get training? Put another way, if we became certain that we were never, ever going to get Iron Nerve training from the Kurosawa, would you still be interested in trading with them/Mist? (If so, are you looking at something beyond mundane trade?)

Personally, I'm still very interested in mundane trade. I'd like to add stuff like trading through inter-village summon network and truck scrolls, but even just normal trading is fine with me. Ideally with as many villages/clans as possible.

I think that the economic, social, and political side of uplift is the most interesting part, since it's the end goal either way and we can do a lot of it right now. In my mind, there's no need to wait until we have more power to do uplift, we already have all the power we need for most of it.

Oneiros said:
Honestly the one thing I would want from the Kurosawa outside of bloodline knowledge would be getting the human sealing printing press going. But that would probably require a bunch of political maneuvering and plotting which makes it a non starter for a lot of people

I would also be interested in this, if it involves political maneuvering.

cdeevfrr · Mar 11, 2022

Just bumping faintlySorcerous' task list for convenience.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Just because there's voting this cycle (does anyone else worry that EJ went mad with power when we told him to write whatever he wanted?) doesn't mean we can't plan/list priorities. This is a non-ordered list of things we might want to work on. The goal is that it's comprehensive, so there...

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Anyone know a better find a particular post again if you can't remember which page it's on? Like, search for keywords & order results by most recent or something? I don't want to blow up the thread with this question, so PM me if you have ideas.

FaintlySorcerous · Mar 11, 2022

cdeevfrr said:
Just bumping faintlySorcerous' task list for convenience.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Just because there's voting this cycle (does anyone else worry that EJ went mad with power when we told him to write whatever he wanted?) doesn't mean we can't plan/list priorities. This is a non-ordered list of things we might want to work on. The goal is that it's comprehensive, so there...

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Anyone know a better find a particular post again if you can't remember which page it's on? Like, search for keywords & order results by most recent or something? I don't want to blow up the thread with this question, so PM me if you have ideas.

I'll put it in my signature once I'm at a desktop computer.

Please note that this is intended to be a shortlist for the next cycle - @Shrooms has a list of ongoing projects in his signature (turn your mobile device to landscape mode to see signatures) and we don't need duplication of that.

I do think that having a good idea of what we're interested in doing so we can turn plans around quickly (easier to say 'I want to accomplish points A and B' with some confidence folks are interested in A and B and write a plan from that than doing it from scratch) is smart, as sometimes (delayed updates) voting cycles can be short and I think that hurts us. Multiple plans mean better plans.

Depending, we might even be able to maintain a library of optimized plan fragments along with vote commitments (i.e. 'include this and I'll vote for your plan'). That lowers the barrier to entry in planwriting: copy and paste a few things, sprinkle some of your own language on top, and you're sorted.

Shrooms · Mar 11, 2022

cdeevfrr said:
Just bumping faintlySorcerous' task list for convenience.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Just because there's voting this cycle (does anyone else worry that EJ went mad with power when we told him to write whatever he wanted?) doesn't mean we can't plan/list priorities. This is a non-ordered list of things we might want to work on. The goal is that it's comprehensive, so there...

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Anyone know a better find a particular post again if you can't remember which page it's on? Like, search for keywords & order results by most recent or something? I don't want to blow up the thread with this question, so PM me if you have ideas.

I mean you could just bookmark it in your browser like any other webpage

cdeevfrr · Mar 11, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
I do think that having a good idea of what we're interested in doing so we can turn plans around quickly

We could go for a fancy solution, but what does everyone think about using something like:

[><] Plan Fragment : _____

Then anyone could just do an ad hoc poll to see what ideas are being considered for the plan & how much support there is. And then we can keep using
[><] Action Plan
for real plans.

@Velorien @eaglejarl Would QMs get upset at all the clutter in their polls?

If everyone's ok with this, faintly sorcerous can just make each of his bullets into plan fragments.

Totally open to feedback on the idea - this is just an idea.

Here's what I'd vote for. Let's not actually do this until we hear from QMs, we don't want them coming back like "who trashed all our polls?"

[><] Plan Fragment: Resurrection research
[><] Plan Fragment: ARS research
[><] Plan Fragment: Weaponize Skyslicers harder
[><] Plan Fragment: Ask Kumokogo and Cannai more about the Sage

These aren't explicitly in FaintlySorcerous' list, but I like them:
[><] Plan Fragment: Scroll hunting with mom
[><] Plan Fragment: Another date with our girlfriends!

(side note: I just discovered threadmarks. LIFE. CHANGING.)

eaglejarl · Mar 11, 2022

cdeevfrr said:
@Velorien @eaglejarl Would QMs get upset at all the clutter in their polls?

So long as everything is clearly tagged so that I can find what I'm supposed to write without a lot of faffing about, I'm fine with y'all using the polling system more or less any way you like.[1] @Velorien can speak for himself as to whether he finds it frustrating.

[1] Having met y'all, I felt the need to add 'more or less' so that no one went all ChallengeAccepted!.jpg and got the thread locked or something.

FaintlySorcerous · Mar 11, 2022

cdeevfrr said:
We could go for a fancy solution, but what does everyone think about using something like:

[><] Plan Fragment : _____

Then anyone could just do an ad hoc poll to see what ideas are being considered for the plan & how much support there is. And then we can keep using
[><] Action Plan
for real plans.

@Velorien @eaglejarl Would QMs get upset at all the clutter in their polls?

If everyone's ok with this, faintly sorcerous can just make each of his bullets into plan fragments.

Totally open to feedback on the idea - this is just an idea.

Here's what I'd vote for. Let's not actually do this until we hear from QMs, we don't want them coming back like "who trashed all our polls?"

[><] Plan Fragment: Resurrection research
[><] Plan Fragment: ARS research
[><] Plan Fragment: Weaponize Skyslicers harder
[><] Plan Fragment: Ask Kumokogo and Cannai more about the Sage

These aren't explicitly in FaintlySorcerous' list, but I like them:
[><] Plan Fragment: Scroll hunting with mom
[><] Plan Fragment: Another date with our girlfriends!

(side note: I just discovered threadmarks. LIFE. CHANGING.)

Managing wordcount would become very difficult very quickly. If we get a library of plan fragments then I don't think that asking authors to copy and paste is too arduous, and if you don't see the combination you want, it's easy enough to put it together.

RandomOTP · Mar 11, 2022

I suspect it would depend on the spoons available to the plan-author in question, and if people ping the plan-author, and link to the fragments appropriately.

As in: "Hey, @ROTP, you radiant being of moonlight? Your plan is pretty dope, and I'd like to vote for it. But OtherPerson has an offscreen fragment [here] that furthers a subplot I'd like to get done. Mind adding it, you cosmic sophont of stardust, you?"

coldcutconvict · Mar 12, 2022

RandomOTP said:
I suspect it would depend on the spoons available to the plan-author in question, and if people ping the plan-author, and link to the fragments appropriately.

As in: "Hey, @ROTP, you radiant being of moonlight? Your plan is pretty dope, and I'd like to vote for it. But OtherPerson as an offscreen fragment [here] that furthers a subplot I'd like to get done. Mind adding it, you cosmic sophont of stardust, you?"

Date idea. Show off Light Relay seals to date. Arrange a dark room with hidden mirrors on a moonlit night. Explain what the seals do, activate them while secretly triggering the mirrors to reflect moonlight onto the seals. Date made the seals glow. Date is a radiant being of moonlight.

Veedrac · Mar 12, 2022

eaglejarl said:
"Lord Nara," Asuma said carefully. "We have lost seventy-five percent of our senior forces?"

"And I've been saying lists are important all along. But what did they tell me? No Hazō, lists are weird, you're weird, why are you making lists all the time and not leaving your room or talking to people? Well who's crazy now? Who's going to feel real smug putting his next item down on his list of major disasters he has to deal with? That's right, Hazō is, I'm going to feel real smug, and you're going to feel like you should have made better lists."

If I didn't have a nontrivial probability on Elemental Mastery nukes becoming sentient, I would say now is a pretty urgent time to be introducing Akane to the EM nuke plan. I don't want to watch Akane melt away, but equally I don't want to watch Hazō always insist that nothing is ever the fault of anyone he knows yada yada. I'd much rather see him say, Akane, you might not have felt you had power over that, but here is something important I need you for, that you will and do have power over, and where these thoughts you are having now are what will separate the best outcomes from the worst. There is an endgame, and it is only going to happen if we give it the best of our wits and focus, together.

But then maybe Elemental Mastery nukes become sentient and start scouring the earth, so it's less prudent a plan than it might have seemed to me before.

Oneiros · Mar 12, 2022

eaglejarl said:
"Lord Nara," Asuma said carefully. "We have lost seventy-five percent of our senior forces?"

This quote honestly illustrates how dumb our leadership is. We gave them a plan that would have inflicted massive damage on Rock with essentially no risk and they decided nahhh let's just get everyone killed

coldcutconvict · Mar 12, 2022

Explaining Orochimaru's behavior with powerups.

He gets a bonus to medical horror creation from thousand yard stare points inflicted on targets he does not kill.

Pokemon Legends Arceus research mechanics applied to bloodlines. Improved research buffs from collecting and {redacted} samples. Meeting a threshold improves the chance next specimens are shiny.

Shrooms · Mar 12, 2022

SC XP for ch 503

Hazou: +2.7
Akane: +4.5
Kei: +3.6

ContextBot · Mar 12, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Scroll hunt: Squirrel, Kraken, Kangaroo, Otter, Hare

This could be expanded:

Scroll hunt: [Scrolls that we hunt] -> Duh

Collecting Scroll information: [Scroll info we have but could give away] -> Asuma doesn't want us to go into Lightning, but Mist/Kurosawa might attempt it, same with the Rat scroll, maybe Mist knows something about that clan?

eaglejarl said:
The Rat Scroll was last held by a ninja of the Crimson Sunrise clan. No one has heard from him in a hundred years and the Scroll is presumed lost. The Rats did not recognize any of the names (Wind Country, Rock, Cloud, Land of Fire, etc) that Noburi and Kei tried on them, so presumably the summoner was from somewhere well off the beaten track. Also, notice that they haven't checked in since before the Village System came into existence.

Summoner: [Living Summoner we know about] -> For the trade network

Capybara, Rat and Leopard can very easily be approached by Noburi and Kei. Just because we don't get the scroll easy or at all doesn't mean we can't trade with them anyway. Besides, whats West/SW of Rat? etc.

And the Leopard summoner would be important to know (or the new Capybara one if there is one), if they aren't an outright problem for Asuma, we would have possible secret communication channels at the AMITY exams. Cannai probably also would like to know.

Shrooms said:
That's about the only thing I can imagine they have that we want that isn't bloodline-related

While somewhat bloodline related....

How about a bunch of Sharingan users? The Kurosawa should have the largest sealing, combat style and ninjutsu collection in Mist, if not the whole world.

As for the money argument: "Money can be exchanged for goods and services"

If we continue adopting almost useless people we might as well hire experts for other things. Or have enough money that they can sit around and train all day everyday.

edit: Also the whole 3D sealing thing. They might be one of the only clans that have all the experts needed to do something like that on their own.

Oneiros · Mar 12, 2022

ContextBot said:
As for the money argument: "Money can be exchanged for goods and services"

While this is 100% true, for me I need to have an actual good or service is uninteresting to me. We've set up moves to make money often
but we rarely do things with the money

Shrooms · Mar 12, 2022

Did our training plans from last cycle go through?

Sentient Tree · Mar 12, 2022

Oneiros said:
While this is 100% true, for me I need to have an actual good or service is uninteresting to me. We've set up moves to make money often
but we rarely do things with the money

From my perspective, we rarely do things with money because we rarely have any.

Several of the other clans are cash-strapped or heavily in debt. We could straight up buy adoption slots, jutsu, seals, clan council votes, etc. from them. I bet there's just as many (or more!) cash-strapped clans in other villages too. We could literally just pay them massive amounts of money to be nice to us/Leaf. With money, we could buy large amounts of already somewhat productive land, and experiment on making it more productive/hospitable through more moderate tax rates and free Till n Fills. I bet you can turn enough money into Nara favors from at least moderately important Nara, and of course those can be turned into favors from higher ranking Nara like Shikamaru (if he has any favors out in the favor economy). We can hire more civilian research teams and just give them a blank check to do research on whatever goal we assign them.

Money is power, and all power is transferrable. It's useful for a LOT of things.

Oneiros · Mar 12, 2022

Sentient Tree said:
Money is power, and all power is transferrable. It's useful for a LOT of things.

Sure I've never denied that. But for me to support a money making venture I would need to see what the plan was to use that money. Getting the money as a vague it could be useful for future things doesn't work for me. It also probably doesn't help that basically all of the things you mentioned as opportunities money could open are things that have negative interest in

edit: in fact if we ever just wanna pump out a ton of money we can just take a few days off of FOOMing and run human sealing press. Money is there if we ever need it

Salaris · Mar 12, 2022

FaintlySorcerous said:
Just because there's voting this cycle (does anyone else worry that EJ went mad with power when we told him to write whatever he wanted?) doesn't mean we can't plan/list priorities.

This is a non-ordered list of things we might want to work on. The goal is that it's comprehensive, so there might be mutually exclusive goals on it. Please ping me to add things, but 'I think this thing is a bad idea' will not get an idea removed; if more than a few people are interested in something it's going on the board.

Talk to Harumitsu about our relationship with him (he was upset when we did research during his training?) and the whole Hagomoro-Goketsu thing.

Figure out what our light detection seals can do and try to bring one proximal to the 'failed' HOWS.

Make another copy of the Great Seal out of whatever rock Gaku/Pangolin engineers could find.

Adopt estate genin who are good candidates for the Chuunin Exams and prepare them for the Chuunin Exams.

Then adopt the rest of the estate ninja, then adopt Kagome's students.

Resurrection research.

ARS research.

See if we can make a weapon out of the Dragonstuff.

Weaponize Skyslicers harder.

Could we set them to explode after they've been hit, to prevent people from figuring out how they work, or mask it as a weird explosion?

Talk to the Conclave about the Dragons, ideally bringing some Dragonstuff as a way of convincing them that this is serious.

Scroll hunt: Squirrel, Kraken, Kangaroo, Otter, Hare

Trade with Mist, River.

Read through Minato's sealing notes and poetry with an eye to hidden meaning/coded messages. Bring in Kagome.

Find out what ACE did for Noburi.

Perhaps poke Sage Mode again now that Noburi is at 30 CR/Physique.

Ask the Toads how he's doing in that regard.

Try to stoneshape exotic materials.

Ask Kumokogo and Cannai if chakra metal exists on the 7th Path or if they have any lore about it.

Ask Kumokogo and Cannai more about the Sage - ninshu, transferring lifeforce, other wacky stuff.

Get the Dogs medical ninjutsu.

A book I read in which fencing figured heavily had an instructor say something like, "the quickest way to a man's heart is proverbially through the stomach, but if you want to get to his brain, I recommend the eyesocket".

Can I ask that we add "create dossier for Ami as we promised" even if it's off-screen? I feel like promising to do that and then not going through with it would be a bad move.

Shrooms · Mar 12, 2022

Shrooms said:
SC XP for ch 503

Hazou: +2.7
Akane: +4.5
Kei: +3.6

Additionally, these don't seem to have been added:
Ch 500

Paperclipped said:
Ch 501 had no plan, making it kind-of-an-interlude. If it counts as such, here's the SC XP for Ch 500 (supposing previous assumptions hold):

Kei: +3.6 XP
Hazou: +1.5 XP

Ch. 499

Paperclipped said:
In the absence of information on whether Kei did a Zoo Rush in the wake of the Shirogane intel, I'll assume she was around the whole time. Likewise, since Hazou can't fully multi-thread his clones, I'll assume one clone did full-time work (3 training blocks) on his responsibilities while he did sealing research, leaving 5 training blocks for Resolve training.

SC Training

Kei: +36 XP
Hazou: +15 XP

Ch. 498

Paperclipped said:
SC Training:

Kei: +3.6 XP

Ch 472 Retroactive Award (It was discovered later that Kei and Akane didn't get any XP for 472, so the SC XP is on top of that)

Paperclipped said:
SC Training: Kei had 1.3x at the time, Akane 1.0x. Hazou was injured and couldn't use Shadow Clone.

Kei: +3.9 XP
Akane: +3 XP

Ch. 497

Paperclipped said:
SC Training: Akane doesn't want to risk SC backlash before being deployed. Kei can support 16 training blocks, but 4 of them (12 hours) are reserved for Snowflake, so she is getting 1.2x. Hazou gets 0.8x. 3 base XP.

Kei: +3.6 XP
Hazou: +2.4 XP

Ch. 496 (Wording was so similar to 497 I had to triple check lmao)

Paperclipped said:
SC Training: Akane doesn't want to risk SC backlash before being deployed. Kei can support 16 training blocks, but 4 of them (12 hours) are reserved for Snowflake, so she is getting 1.2x. With a Resolve upgrade, Hazou is getting 0.8x. 3 base XP.

Kei: +3.6 XP
Hazou: +2.4 XP

Ch. 495

Paperclipped said:
Here are some outstanding SC Training awards for Hazou and Kei. The 8 base XP for Chapter 494 also doesn't appear on any of the party's sheets. Also, I'd like to note this item marked "todo" in Informational:

Which would add a little extra base XP and SC XP, since both Akane and Kei could have trained it (at 1.0x and 1.4x respectively).

This time period has already has XP awarded, in Chapter 492: Out of the Sun. On the off chance the generosity sticks around and you decide to keep the 15 base XP...

Kei: +22.5 XP
Hazou: +10.5 XP

Ch. 494

Paperclipped said:
Any update on this? I'm hoping to hear back on this before I update Hazou's build for the uncap system to make sure I know what sealing/callig numbers we need to hit. It's seeming increasingly important to level ES alongside everything thing else though, so I'd like to make a build that accounts for that.

SC Training:
Kei: +6 XP
Hazou: +2.8 XP

Edit 2: Akane is doing back-to-back missions and probably doesn't have the time for SC training. Removed her bonus.

Ch 493

Paperclipped said:
SC training:

Kei: +1.5 XP
Hazou: +0.7 XP

Edit: Akane is doing back-to-back missions and probably doesn't have the time for SC training. Removed her bonus.

Ch 492

Paperclipped said:
In the interest of being ambitious, while we still don't know how many of our clanmates were gone on mission and for how long...

SC Training: Akane and Kei are getting +1.5x (remember, Kei needs to raise CR before she can get the 1.6x her Resolve stat should allow for), Hazou is getting 0.7x. Hazou's Consequences cleared on the 19th, so 7 of the 8 days were good for SC training, base XP 28 for Hazou, 32 for the others.

Kei: +48 XP
Hazou: +19.6 XP

I'll update this once we know if Akane and Kei went on missions, and if so for how long.

Edit: I didn't realize Hazou has Resolve 29 instead of 26, he should get 0.7x instead. Updated.
Edit 2: Akane is doing back-to-back missions and probably doesn't have the time for SC training. Removed her bonus.

Looking at the sheets for Kei and Akane, SC XP was awarded from Ch 491 and back. So, we have a whopping total missing SC XP of...

Hazou: 57.6 XP
Kei: 135.9 XP
Akane: 7.5 XP

Best Cat · Mar 12, 2022

So can someone tell me where the character sheet is?

Veedrac · Mar 12, 2022

Best Cat said:
So can someone tell me where the character sheet is?

eaglejarl said:
Character sheets:

Hazō (PC)

Keiko (PC teammate with 'GM-mouthpiece' bloodline)

Noburi (PC teammate with chakra-in-water bloodline)

Akane (PC teammate and Demigoddess of Youthful Face Punching)