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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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eaglejarl said:
Hazō hesitated. "Two quick things, sir. Would it be all right for me to write to my mother? Personal contact only, no discussion of politics or capabilities, and I would ask that you have someone review my letters before they are sent and her letters before I get them."

Asuma smiled in mild approval and nodded. "I have no objection. Family is important and she might make a good agent-in-place someday."
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Asuma would be ok with working with Hana.

He really shouldn't complain all that much about the idea. Considering that we got the Condor scroll (that was a few chapters before that scene, but he now knows that it's usable), Porcupine (we just brought that one back and people panicked because of Yasuji) and the Arachnid scroll since then. And he bought another Mist jonin and stole Yuno from Isan. He also thought about giving the Otter scroll to Sand anyway.

We should probably propose to go after a scroll that's close enough that the trade network could influence the 7th Path clan somewhat.

Capybara, Kraken or the Hare scroll would be nice I guess. Or Leopard.

Hana could help Hanzo-dude keep his position and she could be the richest women in Mist thanks to us.

We also don't need to go after only one scroll at the same time, if the general plan is giving it to another nation we can just pull all Asuma approved people for one scroll while going "alone" after a second one.
 
I'm not opposed to giving Hana a scroll but 100% not on board with giving up priceless treasures to people we don't have intense leverage over. If Ami wants instant speed communication for her organization she can pay us for it.
 
MMKII said:
So I've proposed this at an earlier point in time, but I think it's worth bringing up again.

Plan Pitch: Summoning Scroll Hunt With Hana

Mechanics: Literally just hire her out on a mission and derail that by going "Summon Scroll Hunt time"

Wiggle Room: Have Ami smooth shit over with the Mizukage during/before/after so that there are no Problems(TM).

Gist: Get her the Summoning Scroll (something something "By Right of Conquest"). She remains far the fuck away from Mari (thus negating any problems) and we gain access to a valuable resource with respect to Hazou's mental stability, his bloodline, and as an advisor. We can probably use the summoning clans as a node in our trade network as well, which is a major plus for both Hana and Hazou (so, Mist and Leaf). We can also probably poke her about clan secrets stuff along the lines of Great Seal nonsense. The current Kurosawa Clan Head is some fucking LiteralWho now, so it's not like their Paradox Grand Strategy Stability Score is super high right now.

From Hana's perspective: She gets an avenue to hang out with us remotely via the 7th Path once embassies get set up.

From Hazou's perspective: Duh.

From Ami's perspective: I'm sure this would get her Relationship++ across the whole board, let's not kid ourselves.

From Asuma's perspective: The more power players in Mist that are directly related to us and have a major vested interest in our continued existence, means that, by proxy, there is more shit on the line for Mist with respect to this alliance. A Mist jounin that has reason to be super Leaf aligned gaining power and prestige in that village is GOOD FOR LEAF. End of story. That's just how the inequalities work out. Risking a foreign military asset + Hazou + some goons in exchange for this is potentially quite worthwhile. I don't see why Asuma would be against this, outside of "Well what if we just grabbed it ourselves Hazou?". I would argue that spreading the wealth a little bit is more important here from a political standpoint and from a game theoretic standpoint (if too many shinies are concentrated on Leaf, then we become an overwhelmingly juicy target, Orochimaru or no Orochimaru).


Let's go find the fucking Otter scroll, or the Hornet scroll, or fucking whatever. If we want the next one to go to Akane, then so be it, that's fine, apply this to the next one. Maybe we murder some random missing-nin for their scroll, or we head to the Village Hidden in the West Bumblefuck to murder their leader for their scroll. I don't care.

But for the love of fuck let's actually get around to doing things instead of waiting for the misc. bullshit churning in the background to show up at our door with its asskicking boots on.
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I would definitely support getting a scroll for Hana.
 
Oneiros said:
I'm not opposed to giving Hana a scroll but 100% not on board with giving up priceless treasures to people we don't have intense leverage over.
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eaglejarl said:
The Minami have joined under pressure from their Boss, but only on condition that there be no trade with the Turtles. The condition was granted, at least for now.
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If we are friends/allies with the Clan Boss and they are part of the trade network, then the actual Summoner has somewhat less power.
 
ContextBot said:
Asuma would be ok with working with Hana.

He really shouldn't complain all that much about the idea. Considering that we got the Condor scroll (that was a few chapters before that scene, but he now knows that it's usable), Porcupine (we just brought that one back and people panicked because of Yasuji) and the Arachnid scroll since then. And he bought another Mist jonin and stole Yuno from Isan. He also thought about giving the Otter scroll to Sand anyway.

We should probably propose to go after a scroll that's close enough that the trade network could influence the 7th Path clan somewhat.

Capybara, Kraken or the Hare scroll would be nice I guess. Or Leopard.

Hana could help Hanzo-dude keep his position and she could be the richest women in Mist thanks to us.

We also don't need to go after only one scroll at the same time, if the general plan is giving it to another nation we can just pull all Asuma approved people for one scroll while going "alone" after a second one.
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I don't think "Asuma is happy Hazou considers family important" means "Asuma is going to give a legendary artifact to Mist basically for free". Because Mist is already allied with Leaf, and with pretty strong bond, thanks to Ami. Fundamentally, Asuma doesn't get much from giving a Scroll to Mist, especially with Leaf Jounin contigent in the worse shape it's ever been.
This said, personally i would prefer to first to make sure Akane gets a scroll, if she's still alive, then think on how to give Hana a scroll.
 
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Shrooms said:
She was in the most recent chapter, unless you're suggesting someone is Weekend-at-Bernie's-ing her
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Let's wait until after the next update to be sure its actually true.

This wouldn't be the first, second or third time that the timeline got wonky because of Ami.

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Velorien said:
Done, thanks. I think. Did Keiko really spend a month hunting the Condor Summoner?
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My favorite Velorien oopsie.

edit2:
Naruto/Kei/Ami leave to hun the Condor summoner:

Velorien said:
"For what purpose did she leave the village, Shikamaru?"

Shikamaru sighed and slid a slip of paper across the desk. Hazō picked it up.

"I'll bring you back a souvenir ^_^"
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Then she is back a few chapters, later and talks with Ami
Velorien said:
Chapter 321: The Self and the Other
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Then they kill the Condor summoner. That's why I said the timeline can get wonky with Ami around.
 
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[O] Research the seals in the summoning scrolls and create the Scroll Summoning Scroll to find them, bring them all and in the darkness seal them
 
Velorien said:
"So why didn't you recommend him?"

"Because you've found fleeting happiness," Ami said, "and it would not be the act of a friend to accelerate its demise, insofar as it would cause the most beautiful chaos, so on second thought go right ahead and add him in! Your four-way relationship is pretty spicy as far as this village is concerned, and as they say, the spice must grow. And speaking of growing, I think I'm out of things I can do with your hair at this length. Go have a look."
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Rereading previous Ami chapters. We know that pre-Hazou Ami leveraged the social construct of "friendship" to attain [certain desired] ends. We also know that Hazou and Ami's forced unity created an emotionally vulnerable relationship [between Hazou and] Ami and that made her uncomfortable. Ami has also said that she, genuinely, has no idea what "family" means, outside of her self-admitted unhealthy relationship with Kei.

Further, an Ami admitted to Hazou (during the fallout of the Orochimaru Fiasco) that Ami is "always looking for further clarification of their relationship" and that Ami values Hazou's friendship --she even told him not to get distracted by that revelation, and to instead "think about that later," because it wouldn't be pertinent to convincing Ami.

So, I would posit that Ami is teaching herself how to be an actual friend, rather than a mummery of it. Ami's doing her best to be Hazou's friend, using her theoretical knowledge about what "friendship" means, while also taking cues from Hazou, who responds to her actions/words.

Ami is Hazou's friend (or, at least, wants to be), so she's doing her best to learn what that means on an emotional level.

I think. These are half-formed thoughts and speculation, based on idle musing and half-asleep brainwaves.
 
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RandomOTP said:
Rereading previous Ami chapters. We know that pre-Hazou Ami leveraged the social construct of "friendship" to attain [certain desired] ends. We also know that Hazou and Ami's forced unity created an emotionally vulnerable relationship [between Hazou and] Ami and that made her uncomfortable. Ami has also said that she, genuinely, has no idea if what "family" means, outside of her self-admitted unhealthy relationship with Kei.

Further, an Ami admitted to Hazou (during the fallout of the Orochimaru Fiasco) that Ami is "always looking for further clarification of their relationship" and that Ami values Hazou's friendship --she even told him not to get distracted by that revelation, and to instead "think about that later," because it wouldn't be pertinent to convincing Ami.

So, I would posit that Ami is teaching herself how to be an actual friend, rather than a mummery of it. Ami's doing her best to be Hazou's friend, using her theoretical knowledge about what "friendship" means, while also taking cues from Hazou, who responds to her actions/words.

Ami is Hazou's friend (or, at least, wants to be), so she's doing her best to learn what that means on an emotional level.

I think. These are half-formed thoughts and speculation, based on idle musing and half-asleep brainwaves.
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The worst part is you have to take this all on faith, because there is 0% chance Hazō can see through this generation's greatest social spec ninja.
 
I'm not 100% certain on if this is implied to already be happening by Hazou's agreement to do it in the chapter, but it may be worth making sure there's a plan bullet point to get Ami a report on Isan as she requested, even if it's off-screened. Agreeing to do something for Ami and then not doing it seems like the type of move that we'd regret later.
 
Crunbum said:
Kinda sorta but not quite. SC 60 does mean AB 7, i.e +15 to clone sickness checks, which is an extra +50% of base daily exp rate (+5 extra safe daily training blocks), and that pays for itself over time.

But the longer duration and maximum distance can also be very useful indeed, doubly so for a social spec as it allows the clones to act in social capacity more effectively since they "live" longer and a lifetime in days is quite enough for long-distance travel or negotiations, and Ami seems to engage in both quite often. The ability to keep clones up at all times and yet not be empty of chakra is invaluable too, both in combat and outside of it, ex. for keeping watch or simply training, as not being empty for keeping them up means that one can potentially train in a less-than-completely-safe environment or partly on the road. It also means you can practically expect to not need to spend an Action to use SC if you're expecting trouble, and having the huge Action Economy advantage from the get go (while also not being empty of chakra for it) is quite the combat edge, especially when the clones can protect you with Blocks etc. So its all around a decent skill to keep high, as it opens quite a lot of doors, and if you're keeping an extra capstone-ish column anyway (Resolve) then you might as well fit it a step below.
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This analysis seems to totally neglect the fact that Prime can't sleep without popping the clones. So unless Prime is willing to go days and days without sleep, which negates most of the stated benefits (imagine going into a fight to the death without sleeping for 48 hours). SC above 40 or so just isn't very useful.
 
I'm definitely on board with the scroll for Hana!

Wow... after this update, I'm actually kinda liking action plan: let Ami seduce us. Taking over the world to protect your sister is kinda hot. (JK we're already spoken for three times over.)

But maybe we're willing to be more trusting with the idea of FOOM? There's some good arguments that it's not gonna help her as much as it would us since it has multi-year pay-back time, and look what she's already done with the power she has - honestly I kinda trust Ami with power more than I trust the hivemind with power :p
 
Just because there's voting this cycle (does anyone else worry that EJ went mad with power when we told him to write whatever he wanted?) doesn't mean we can't plan/list priorities.

This is a non-ordered list of things we might want to work on. The goal is that it's comprehensive, so there might be mutually exclusive goals on it. Please ping me to add things, but 'I think this thing is a bad idea' will not get an idea removed; if more than a few people are interested in something it's going on the board.
  • Talk to Harumitsu about our relationship with him (he was upset when we did research during his training?) and the whole Hagomoro-Goketsu thing.
  • Figure out what our light detection seals can do and try to bring one proximal to the 'failed' HOWS.
  • Make another copy of the Great Seal out of whatever rock Gaku/Pangolin engineers could find.
  • Adopt estate genin who are good candidates for the Chuunin Exams and prepare them for the Chuunin Exams.
    • Then adopt the rest of the estate ninja, then adopt Kagome's students.
  • Resurrection research.
  • ARS research.
  • See if we can make a weapon out of the Dragonstuff.
  • Weaponize Skyslicers harder.
    • Could we set them to explode after they've been hit, to prevent people from figuring out how they work, or mask it as a weird explosion?
  • Talk to the Conclave about the Dragons, ideally bringing some Dragonstuff as a way of convincing them that this is serious.
  • Scroll hunt: Squirrel, Kraken, Kangaroo, Otter, Hare
  • Trade with Mist, River.
  • Read through Minato's sealing notes and poetry with an eye to hidden meaning/coded messages. Bring in Kagome.
  • Find out what ACE did for Noburi.
  • Perhaps poke Sage Mode again now that Noburi is at 30 CR/Physique.
    • Ask the Toads how he's doing in that regard.
  • Try to stoneshape exotic materials.
  • Ask Kumokogo and Cannai if chakra metal exists on the 7th Path or if they have any lore about it.
  • Ask Kumokogo and Cannai more about the Sage - ninshu, transferring lifeforce, other wacky stuff.
  • Get the Dogs medical ninjutsu.
Rafin said:
In Germany we have a saying. "Love goes through the stomach".
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A book I read in which fencing figured heavily had an instructor say something like, "the quickest way to a man's heart is proverbially through the stomach, but if you want to get to his brain, I recommend the eyesocket".
 
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Sir Stompy said:
This analysis seems to totally neglect the fact that Prime can't sleep without popping the clones. So unless Prime is willing to go days and days without sleep, which negates most of the stated benefits (imagine going into a fight to the death without sleeping for 48 hours). SC above 40 or so just isn't very useful.
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Learn a ninjutsu that replaces sleep. Example, casting locks the body into 10 hour stasis for an annoying amount of chakra + eats up all recovery but prevents clones from popping. Clones must still sleep. Level Kage Bunshin to the point clones last a month. Level sealing. Perform a dangerous resolve check overhang, producing thousands to millions more clone hours than can be survived. Solve the problem andeveryotherproblem or die.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
This is a non-ordered list of things we might want to work on. The goal is that it's comprehensive, so there might be mutually exclusive goals on it. Please ping me to add things, but 'I think this thing is a bad idea' will not get an idea removed; if more than a few people are interested in something it's going on the board.
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Scroll hunts and inter village trades/relationships
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
Just because there's voting this cycle (does anyone else worry that EJ went mad with power when we told him to write whatever he wanted?) doesn't mean we can't plan/list priorities.

This is a non-ordered list of things we might want to work on. The goal is that it's comprehensive, so there might be mutually exclusive goals on it. Please ping me to add things, but 'I think this thing is a bad idea' will not get an idea removed; if more than a few people are interested in something it's going on the board.
  • Talk to Harumitsu about our relationship with him (he was upset when we did research during his training?) and the whole Hagomoro-Goketsu thing.
  • Figure out what our light detection seals can do and try to bring one proximal to the 'failed' HOWS.
  • Make another copy of the Great Seal out of whatever rock Gaku/Pangolin engineers could find.
  • Adopt estate chuunin and prepare them for the Chuunin Exams.
  • Resurrection research.
  • ARS research.
  • See if we can make a weapon out of the Dragonstuff.
  • Weaponize Skyslicers harder. (Could we set them to explode after they've been hit, to prevent people from figuring out how they work, or mask it as a weird explosion?)
  • Talk to the Conclave about the Dragons, ideally bringing some Dragonstuff as a way of convincing them that this is serious.

A book I read in which fencing figured heavily had an instructor say something like, "the quickest way to a man's heart is proverbially through the stomach, but if you want to get to his brain, I recommend the eyesocket".
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There's been talk of a few other seal types. Modified purifier seals to get "pure" elements, eventually working up to ground of earth/metals/etc. Force seal modifications to allow for swords/shuriken.

There's probably hidden messages in Minato's poetry.

He quickly flipped the top sheet facedown and tucked the whole stack under the blanket. "The Fourth Hokage's notes on Naruto's bijū-containment seal, which are all highly classified." He paused. "Also, his philosophical musings and poetry, which unfortunately are not." "Poetry? Really?" "I hope it's not treason to say it, but it's not very good poetry. It barely rhymes and the scansion breaks a lot."
Scansion - the rhythm of a line of verse. First thing that comes to mind is hidden messages where the rhythm breaks.

There's evidence that the Wakahisa external chakra system is not part of their bloodline (Nob's interlude of his home life, early night one conversation between Kei and Nobs). Might be able to talk to Nobs about it, maybe use the information in other ways.

Noburi now has 30 Physique and Chakra Capacity. Might be worth going to Ma and Pa for a progress check as well as to see if Nob's internal chakra reserve of 1 would complicate sage mode.
 
cdeevfrr said:
I'm definitely on board with the scroll for Hana!

Wow... after this update, I'm actually kinda liking action plan: let Ami seduce us. Taking over the world to protect your sister is kinda hot. (JK we're already spoken for three times over.)

But maybe we're willing to be more trusting with the idea of FOOM? There's some good arguments that it's not gonna help her as much as it would us since it has multi-year pay-back time, and look what she's already done with the power she has - honestly I kinda trust Ami with power more than I trust the hivemind with power :p
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1: down bad, bap

2: it does not make me trust her more, for all we know she'll decide the ultimate key to keeping Kei safe from everyone else is to put everyone else into labor camps or something and then we'll have to beat her ass, which is much easier if she hasn't FOOM'd :V
 
coldcutconvict said:
Learn a ninjutsu that replaces sleep. Example, casting locks the body into 10 hour stasis for an annoying amount of chakra + eats up all recovery but prevents clones from popping. Clones must still sleep. Level Kage Bunshin to the point clones last a month. Level sealing. Perform a dangerous resolve check overhang, producing thousands to millions more clone hours than can be survived. Solve the problem andeveryotherproblem or die.
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I don't think that this is going to be compatible with the build Hazo needs for his pyramids not to get stuck. But if there's popular support for the idea (i.e. people other than you signing on) I'll throw it on the list.
Oneiros said:
Scroll hunts and inter village trades/relationships
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Scroll hunts, done - if you have some specific scrolls to cite that would be cool. Are there trade opportunities with places other than Mist you're interested in?
RandomOTP said:
I'd also like to explicitly state that we should adopt Kagome's 2 students (who are also estate ninja, iirc), too. Idk if we have enough adoption slips for it, but we could trade for some more?
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We're goin to need to adopt the estate ninja first (probably) but added to the list under that.
ProperAttorney said:
There's been talk of a few other seal types. Modified purifier seals to get "pure" elements, eventually working up to ground of earth/metals/etc. Force seal modifications to allow for swords/shuriken.

There's probably hidden messages in Minato's poetry.

He quickly flipped the top sheet facedown and tucked the whole stack under the blanket. "The Fourth Hokage's notes on Naruto's bijū-containment seal, which are all highly classified." He paused. "Also, his philosophical musings and poetry, which unfortunately are not." "Poetry? Really?" "I hope it's not treason to say it, but it's not very good poetry. It barely rhymes and the scansion breaks a lot."
Scansion - the rhythm of a line of verse. First thing that comes to mind is hidden messages where the rhythm breaks.

There's evidence that the Wakahisa external chakra system is not part of their bloodline (Nob's interlude of his home life, early night one conversation between Kei and Nobs). Might be able to talk to Nobs about it, maybe use the information in other ways.

Noburi now has 30 Physique and Chakra Capacity. Might be worth going to Ma and Pa for a progress check as well as to see if Nob's internal chakra reserve of 1 would complicate sage mode.
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Look at Minato's sealing notes and poetry: check. Might delegate to Kagome?

Looking at the results of ACE is a good idea. I wonder if Sage mode and then merging with a Toad would give Noburi enough capacity to cast SCs...
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
Look at Minato's sealing notes and poetry: check. Might delegate to Kagome
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I think we technically already looked over the sealing notes, but nothing came of it.

I would also like to eventually ask Kumokugo and Cannai about the availability of Chakra Metal on the 7th path, as well as what they know of its origin and properties.

There's also that story the Inuzuka elder told Hazō about Karyūga-no-Ōkami, the ninken ancestor. Could see if the name/story means anything to Cannai or the storytellers.

I'm unsure if we ever actually tried using ES on gemstones, could be used as 3D sealing substrate, or as a way to make beaucoup ryo.

We could ask the summon clans about ninshu and if they know how to use it.
 
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