That's what I mentioned earlier. We do own the spy notes, because Jiraiya gave them to us. But Asuma might mess with us (via his power of Hokage) by claiming that we do not own the spy notes.

Jiraiya didn't give them to us and they weren't his to give away. They were his copy of Leaf's intelligence that was acquired through Jiraiya's capacity as a government employee. The spy info is simply his copy that served as reference material so that he could do his job better --a potential opsec leak that the Tower likely only allowed because of Jiraiya's unshakable loyalty to the Leaf.

It's been made pretty clear that the spy notes were only accidentally included in the inheritance, much like the jutsu scrolls, because Jiraiya wasn't paying close enough attention and threw them in the seal, too --a mistake that he only made because, again, he was pretty busy those last few weeks. And Asuma's rightfully declaring that we need to return State's Secrets back to the State and, in my opinion, he's being pretty damn reasonable about the time frame.

So let's not rock the boat on this one by trying to extort another Hokage.

Guys. Asuma likes us. We know it. The writers admitted it. Let's not ruin it by getting paranoid, unreasonable, and greedy. That's how killboxes happen.
 
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they weren't his to give away
He was Hokage. He can give away what he wants.
It's been made pretty clear that they were only included in the inheritance, much like the jutsu scrolls, because Jiraiya accidentally threw them in the seal
Where? I recall a QM mentioning the jutsu was Jiraiya's mistake. Because his will explicitly left that to Naruto. I don't recall any of the QMs mentioning the spy network was a mistake, especially since Jiraiya explicitly left that to Goketsu/Hazou.
 
He was Hokage. He can give away what he wants.

Where? I recall a QM mentioning the jutsu was Jiraiya's mistake. Because his will explicitly left that to Naruto. I don't recall any of the QMs mentioning the spy network was a mistake, especially since Jiraiya explicitly left that to Goketsu/Hazou.

Kagome straight up tells us that?


"If Jiraifa's nof'," the older man said around an impolitely large mouthful of honeyed granola. He paused to chew for a moment, then swallowed. "You know how we talked about Leaf's intelligence stuff taking a big hit in the Collapse and that's why you turned in all the spy stuff I had decoded? Well, there's a lot more of it. That got me thinking; all this stuff is Jiraiya's portable office, right? I mean, he turns in reports to the Hokage but keeps a copy for his own reference when he's out in the field, or even just working from home."

If you're trying to lawyer Jiraiyas will, then maybe by the letter of that he did leave these to us. But that doesn't matter, because it's clear that wasn't his intention, Asuma now reasonably expects us to turn them over, and there's no reason for us to fight him on that.
 
So let's not rock the boat on this one by trying to extort another Hokage.

Guys. Asuma likes us. We know it. The writers admitted it. Let's not ruin it by getting paranoid, unreasonable, and greedy. That's how killboxes happen.
I agree!

Anyway, next update I think we should threaten to manipulate Orochimaru into killing Asuma to get Asuma to confiscate Orochimaru's Basement and give it to us, on the rationale that we really want to see what's in it and if Asuma won't get it for us, we'll just have to take Oro's side in everything. It's a brilliant plan.
 
He was Hokage. He can give away what he wants.

If you're going to nit pick about the wording of the will, Kagome makes it clear that Jiraiya didn't mean to leave us state secrets.

But okay. Fine, let's say that Jiraiya did use his capacity as the Hokage to give away priceless state secrets to a new clan of missing nin from an enemy country, who haven't been in Konoha for a year, let alone long enough to have been naturalized --an act that would be a betrayal of the Leaf and everything that Jiraiya stood up until his death. Let's say that, for the sake of argument, that happened. It doesn't matter. Jiraiya's dead. Dead. Gone. Dust and ash in the wind. Jiraiya's dead and now Asuma's Hokage. Now Asuma can do what he wants because, by your own logic, he's Hokage.

What's keeping Asuma from having us all murdered in our sleep by loyal Anbu agents or village jonin, seizing the very important information that is classified by the state, owned by the state, and vitally important to the Leaf's national security and then funneling Konoha's far superior resources into decrypting it himself?

It's not a lack of ability. He has the full military might of Konoha to command and we have --at best --three chuunin, a social spec-ed jonin, and one sealmaster against all of Konoha's military might. Sealmasters? Konoha has far more than one. Jonin? Again, Konoha has far more than just one, and theirs are actually spec-ed for combat, not dancing verbally (no hate towards Mari, I love her character bunches and want to see her get better). Even the Nara would have to concede against the full weight of Konoha, no matter how you put it.

And it's certainly not politics. We've been in Konoha less than a year. We're not fully naturalized. We don't even really understand their culture. We're outsiders, and all it would take is a small amount of rhetoric to convince everyone that it's okay, we were spies for Mist this whole time and a danger to the Will of Fire.

Nothing. Nothing, save the fact that Asuma likes us and is willing to give us a chance to work towards the betterment of our new home. He's lending us a lot of rope so that we can prove ourselves to be loyal citizens of the Leaf --something that I would bet my college tuition is still contested by a nontrivial segment of Konoha's population.

Let's not hang ourselves in a killbox with the rope we've been given, okay? Okay.
 
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Yes. Jiraiya was disorganized and forgot things. Definitely. See? It was all Jiraiya. *points furiously*

Possible rationalization:
Naruto received a organized scrolls about all of Jiraya's jutsu, we received Jiraiya notes, generally about sealing but also other things, because said "ninjutsu scroll" came from somewhere, specifically Jiraiya highly confusing notes? So Naruto got the complete and finished version, we got the unfinished notes with a bunch of incomplete works and half-baked ideas(And some useful Jutsu,like the one Kagome decoded), because Jiraiya kept his notes all together, like Leaf intel for example.
This gives enough freedom to decide "No, you don't get any more jutsu because you nuked Oro and we liked him" or "You get more jutsu because we got bribed by the players we are wonderful GMs"
 
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Kagome straight up tells us that?
that's just conjecture
clear that wasn't his intention
i disagree. although it is feasible that we shouldn't have had enough trust for jiraiya to give us these secrets. given that he did give us them, I believe he did it purposefully and knowingly.
It's not about politics
there's some politics. We could bring to the clan council how Asuma is confiscating a clan's most important secrets and have them think about how they feel about that. I'm not proposing that yet since I value a friendly kage more than the spy notes, for now. But this might be indicative of how Asuma will interact with us in the future. And I might change my mind if I decide that Asuma will probably keep acting like this towards us. Of course, the weak point of our argument is
Yes it is possible that Asuma might justify confiscating our stuff via hokage and outsider arguments and that we have no recourse.
 
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So the spy notes are not ours. Obviously.

The jutsu is a bit harder to determine. We should probably just talk to Naruto about it, or have Akane/Noburi do so.
 
I agree!

Anyway, next update I think we should threaten to manipulate Orochimaru into killing Asuma to get Asuma to confiscate Orochimaru's Basement and give it to us, on the rationale that we really want to see what's in it and if Asuma won't get it for us, we'll just have to take Oro's side in everything. It's a brilliant plan.
Hm...seven or eight hours on Sundays, probably 10-15 hours during the week...

I'm a little torn between the options and I'd be curious to hear what the hivemind thinks. Which of the following should I pursue with my new free time?

[x] [EJFreeTime] Music lessons
[x] [EJFreeTime] Dance lessons (international samba, woo!)
[x] [EJFreeTime] More writing time for novels
[x] [EJFreeTime] Pottery (maybe? Dunno, seems like it might be fun but I'm not super stoked)
[x] [EJFreeTime] Get back into standup comedy
[x] [EJFreeTime] Find a group and run a TTRPG. Maybe Shadowrun? I loved SR back in college.
[x] [EJFreeTime] Professional development (bleh, but I should be responsible)
 
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Oh dear Jashin they're here.

SCREAMING IN MMKII


[x] [EJFreeTime] More writing time for novels
[x] [EJFreeTime] Get back into standup comedy
[x] [EJFreeTime] Find a group and run a TTRPG. Maybe Shadowrun? I loved SR back in college.
[x] [EJFreeTime] Professional development (bleh, but I should be responsible)
[X] [EJFreeTime] Assemble a pile of folks from the community to serve as the writers room for a couple comedy shows. Slam dunk.
 
Anyway, I think we can probably convince Asuma to make the spy notes count as our contribution with Mari's help. Without her help, if we want her to relax, I'm less certain of our chances.
 
Anyway, I think we can probably convince Asuma to make the spy notes count as our contribution with Mari's help. Without her help, if we want her to relax, I'm less certain of our chances.
I vote against Mari being too heavily involved. Ask her advice, sure; but I'm pretty sure she's in agreement that the spy stuff goes to the Tower without question.
 
[x] [EJFreeTime] More writing time for novels
[x] [EJFreeTime] Professional development (bleh, but I should be responsible)
 
Honestly, this seems like a thin plan to begin with from Velorien's perspective. We should put in at least one scene with potential for interesting character drama. Like sending Akane to check up on Aya, for example. Feed the monster, lest it feed on you, and so forth.
Let us not forget that this was pointed out immediately after the plan was posted and not fixed.
 
[x] [EJFreeTime] Dance lessons (international samba, woo!)
[x] [EJFreeTime] More writing time for novels
[x] [EJFreeTime] Get back into standup comedy
[x] [EJFreeTime] Professional development (bleh, but I should be responsible)
[x] [EJFreeTime] Get to write MfD prequel set up during Waring Clans period
 
[x] [EJFreeTime] Dance lessons (international samba, woo!)
[x] [EJFreeTime] Find a group and run a TTRPG. Play more with Fated to Die. It never ends.
[x] [EJFreeTime] Underwater basketweaving
 
So however we got here, we are currently in possession of vital Intelligence notes that Asuma has decreed belong to the Tower. There is no negotiation to be had here, we merely separate the intelligence notes from the rest of the pile before sending it to Asuma and call it a day without making any kind of fuss.

Similarly, we appear to be in possession of jutsu scrolls and/or jutsu development notes that rightfully belong to Naruto as per Jiraiya's will. It would be morally wrong to knowingly keep them to ourselves any more than necessary, unless given permission by their rightful owner Naruto. More to the point, if we choose to keep this from Naruto then when he does find out that we have Jiraiya's jutsu he will be very upset that we're breaking Jiraiya's will for personal benefit, and we'll further alienate a Leaf S-ranker and future Hokage.

Personally, we should play this by the straight-and-narrow. Send someone Naruto doesn't hate (i.e. not Hazou) to tell him that we're finding jutsus mixed into Jiraiya's seal notes, and we're happy to return them to him as we uncover them. While it's not impossible that Naruto will let us learn them, we should fully expect that he wants all of the notes returned to him ASAP and our solemn word that we don't have any copies lying around and won't try to replicate them from what we saw.
 
So however we got here, we are currently in possession of vital Intelligence notes that Asuma has decreed belong to the Tower. There is no negotiation to be had here, we merely separate the intelligence notes from the rest of the pile before sending it to Asuma and call it a day without making any kind of fuss.

Similarly, we appear to be in possession of jutsu scrolls and/or jutsu development notes that rightfully belong to Naruto as per Jiraiya's will. It would be morally wrong to knowingly keep them to ourselves any more than necessary, unless given permission by their rightful owner Naruto. More to the point, if we choose to keep this from Naruto then when he does find out that we have Jiraiya's jutsu he will be very upset that we're breaking Jiraiya's will for personal benefit, and we'll further alienate a Leaf S-ranker and future Hokage.

Personally, we should play this by the straight-and-narrow. Send someone Naruto doesn't hate (i.e. not Hazou) to tell him that we're finding jutsus mixed into Jiraiya's seal notes, and we're happy to return them to him as we uncover them. While it's not impossible that Naruto will let us learn them, we should fully expect that he wants all of the notes returned to him ASAP and our solemn word that we don't have any copies lying around and won't try to replicate them from what we saw.

OK. Sounds reasonable.
 
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