- Location
- Yes.
Get Noburi in on the joke, make him claim that the Wakahisa are actually cousins of the Hyuga Clan, and their bloodline is actually the Byakugan with some weird techniques to obfuscate its use.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Uh, guys? It's probably worth remembering that Asuma likes us. We're living proof of the Will of Fire as a philosophy. We verify the thing that he and his father use as a moral compass. He likes us and is giving us the benefit of the doubt and a lot of freedom --more freedom than many would say would be wise. Unless we do something drastic or deliberately harmful toward Leaf, he's likely to let us keep as we are.
Asuma wants the Spy Info because those are literally state secrets that the J-man collected in his capacity as the Leaf's spymaster. And the fact that Leaf's copy of that info is gone (due to the Sinkhole Incident) makes it all the more shocking that Asuma's giving us as much room to breathe as he is. Hiashi would've found a reason to kill us and seize ALL of that information, clan secrets or not. But Asuma's trusting us to filter through what is and what isn't a State Secret and then give the Tower what is rightfully the Tower's. I mean, any other clan might consider keeping the Spy Info simply as a resource to use, but Asuma's trusting us not to do that.
Seriously, the man likes us. On one hand, let's not ruin it, but on the other, I think that we can settle into the Leaf as our home now.
Asuma wants the Spy Info because those are literally state secrets that the J-man collected in his capacity as the Leaf's spymaster. And the fact that Leaf's copy of that info is gone (due to the Sinkhole Incident) makes it all the more shocking that Asuma's giving us as much room to breathe as he is. Hiashi would've found a reason to kill us and seize ALL of that information, clan secrets or not. But Asuma's trusting us to filter through what is and what isn't a State Secret and then give the Tower what is rightfully the Tower's. I mean, any other clan might consider keeping the Spy Info simply as a resource to use, but Asuma's trusting us not to do that.
Seriously, the man likes us. On one hand, let's not ruin it, but on the other, I think that we can settle into the Leaf as our home now.
- Location
- uk
Eh. Given that it's the fourth Hokage since we moved into Leaf, I give him maybe three months.
- Location
- Yes.
Consider how the people die quicker and quicker after taking office, I give him until the end of March, if that.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Fair point. Just have him cast Substitution to exhaustion, then, and see if he can do that as many times as a 26 CR ninja should be able to.
That's not why. I don't think marrying Yuno Isan-style is going to fly. The whole point of that ploy is that not only will she be committed to Leaf, Leaf will be committed to her too, making her a good diplomatic bridge between the villages. If Leaf doesn't recognize her as its own, it'll have no "legitimate" diplomatic reasons to take offence at Isan's treatment of her, meaning Isan would have less incentive to recognize her as never having gone missing (or recognizing the legitimacy of her marriage, for that matter). What say does Leaf have in how Isan treats its traitors?
More practically: if Noburi tells her he still doesn't plan on "really" committing to her until maybe a year in the future, she'll just go marry Neji.
Yes, I'd like that.
I assure you, I am long past this point.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
So we started this quest off with the Third Hokage out of retirement, just like canon.
Then he died in a big fight and one of the Sannin took charge.
Then after the Sannin left office we got some jerk trying to take the position.
Then after that guy was dealt with a relatively chill Jounin became Hokage instead.
And all signs indicate that next up is Naruto once he fully comes into his own.
This Is Not A Coincidence Because Nothing Is Ever A Coincidence.
Then he died in a big fight and one of the Sannin took charge.
Then after the Sannin left office we got some jerk trying to take the position.
Then after that guy was dealt with a relatively chill Jounin became Hokage instead.
And all signs indicate that next up is Naruto once he fully comes into his own.
This Is Not A Coincidence Because Nothing Is Ever A Coincidence.
- Location
- Italy
I propose, and i know this seems ridiculous, to treat Neji as a person worthy of our respect and as someone we want to be friend with, Akane-Style. As Yuno(?) said, Neji clearly want to be loved and respected so.... we could try? Everyone treat his with false respect, and the few people that actually like him don't talk with him(Tenten) or are well....Lee.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
More seriously, take a look at what being a summoner entails for Kagome:
- In the real world your summons can kill you but you can't hurt your summons. (-1 Trust)
- On the 7th path, you can both hurt each other but they will have a massive power advantage. (-1 Trust)
- Kagome is unlikely to be in situations where summons make a useful difference since he's a sealmaster, cryptographer, and more useful at home. (-3 Utility)
- Kagome is not the sort of person who is good at cross-dimensional arbitrage, unlike both Keiko and Noburi, and won't be particularly suited to establishing good trade deals or good exchanges in general. (-1 Utility)
- Keiko is the best at economics, Noburi is a good wheeler and dealer, and Kagome can't bluff to save his live.
- Summons are unlikely to synergize with Kagome's best skills.
- Sealing seems to be theologically proscribed among summons, though it's not clear whether that's true for all summon clans. (-0.5 Expected Utility)
- Summons will mostly act as an extended team for Kagome, at best they can be the Tank or Healer to Kagome's DPS. This true for literally anyone we give the summon to, but Kagome is a valuable enough asset for Leaf that he'll get a team that prioritizes his safety in most cases where he'd need it.
- Not to mention that we try to keep Kagome from being alone in dangerous situations anyway.
- We talk to Kagome about whether he wants to be a summoner and if yes, have a frank discussion about his trust issues and how he plans to deal with them.
- We get (ideally through multiple sources) an idea of the culture of the proposed summon clan for Kagome.
- We get an idea of whether the anti-sealing stance is a Pangolin thing or a more general thing.
Okay, let's consider this relative to two other reasonable options:
- We give the scroll to Akane.
- We don't get a scroll at all.
| No Summons | Kagome Summons | Akane Summons | Hazou Summons | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Expected effort to find the scroll: [1] | 0 ninja months | -2 Ninja Months of B-Class Missions | - 2 ninja months of B-Class Mission | - 2 ninja months of B-Class Missions |
| Expected effort to retrieve the scroll: [2] | 0 ninja missions | -2 Ninja * Week * A-Class Missions | - 2 Ninja * Week * A-Class Mission | - 2 Ninja * Week * A-Class Mission |
| Expected Combat Utility: [3] | ~ | 170 k ryu / year | 421 k ryu / year | 456 k ryu per year |
| Expected Jutsu Utility: [4] | ~ | + 2 clan jutsu | + 2 clan jutsu | +2 clan jutsu |
| Expected Trade Utility: [5] | 0 ryu / yr | 20 m ryu / year | 24 m ryu / year | 24 m ryu / year |
| Expected XP Used: | ~ | - 250 Kagome XP | - 250 Akane XP | - 250 Hazou XP |
| Expected Training Time Used : | ~ | - 2 Kagome Months | - 2 Akane Months | - 2 Hazou Months |
| Expected Opportunity Cost: | ~ | ~ 2 months of B-Class effort ~ 1/2 month of A-Class effort ~ 2 Months of Kagome training time ~ 250 Kagome XP | ~ 2 months of B-Class effort ~ 1/2 month of A-Class effort ~ 2 Months of Akane training time ~ 250 Akane XP | ~ 2 months of B-Class effort ~ 1/2 month of A-Class effort ~ 2 Months of Hazou training time ~250 Hazou XP |
| Expected Net Benefit : | ~ | ~ 2 clan jutsu ~ 20.1 m ryu / year | ~ 2 clan jutsu ~ 24.4 m ryu / year | ~ 2 clan jutsu ~ 24.4 m ryu / year |
In general these are back of the napkin calculations and the numbers have been pulled out of my ass, but I think it's a pretty reasonable model regardless.
- I expect the process of finding the scroll will look largely the same no matter who we give it to and am conservatively estimating that it'll take one ninja 2 months of effort to find the scroll.
- This ranges the gamut from between "We can just pick it up" to "We need to kill an A-Class ninja to get it", for the latter I expect something like 5 ninja on an A-Class mission would be enough to make success very likely. So call it 2 on expectation.
- Relevant Missions * ((Chance of Success * Expected Value of Success) + ((1 - Chance of Failure) * Expected Value of Failure))
Missions [2,4,5] Success % [7] Success [12,13] Failure [14,15] Mission Expectation Total Gain Kagome Base 4 / year [6] 80 % + 60 k ryu - 120 k ryu 24 k / mission 96 k/yr Kagome Summon 7 / Year [6] 85 % [10] + 80 k ryu - 200 k ryu 38 k / mission 266 k/yr Kagome Net -- -- -- -- -- 170 k / yr Akane Base 10 / year 75 % + 50 k ryu - 100 k ryu 12.5 k / mission 125 k / yr Akane Summon 12 / year 90 % [8] + 70 k ryu - 175 k ryu 45.5 k / mission 546 k/ yr Akane Net -- -- -- -- -- 421 k / yr Hazou Base 6 / year [3] 85 % [11] + 80 k ryu - 160 k ryu 44 k / mission 264 k / yr Hazou Summon 10 / year [3] 92 % [9, 11] + 100 k ryu - 250 k ryu 72 k / mission 720 k / year Hazou Net -- -- -- -- 28 k / mission 456 k / year - Hazou and Kagome are less likely to be on missions that require combat, since they are sealmasters.
- Hazou is less likely to be sent on missions since he is clan head.
- A summoner will be more likely to be sent on missions because they are a summoner.
- Hazou and Kagome will probably see more of an increase in mission count than Akane as they're not going on as many missions by default.
- Kagome is hard to work with and so will be limited in the types of missions he's capable of carrying out, limiting the number he can participate in. He's still more useful as a sealmaster than a summoner just because of temperment.
- Base success rate will be pretty high, because there's no point to sending ninja on missions where they fail.
- Akane, as a primary combatant will get significant benefit from summons
- Hazou, will get less benefit as his mission profile will probably skew a bit more diplomatic and the summons will apply social pressure more than combat pressure.
- Kagome, will get yet less benefit for the reasons in [6], the fact that squish-kaboom missions require less support, and he can't really be sent out alone even with summons.
- Hazou, as a clan head, is less expendable than Akane, and so will be sent on missions that are less dangerous and more likely to succeed. His missions are likely to be more important
- Going by jounin seals being ~2000 ryu per, and Asuma allocating 30 skywalkers on Kagome's mission Leaf is getting more than 60,000 ryu worth of value from the mission. So let's assume that that's a reasonable base rate for Kagome missions. Hazou will probably be sent on missions worth a bit more, and Akane a bit less.
- Being a summoner will mean you are sent on more important missions than non-summoners, due to standard scarcity effects.
- Let's assume that failure costs are generally going to be larger than the benefits, 2.5x would just about make the standard chuunin mission a net loss so let's go with 2. This assumes that the cost of losing a ninja is factored into that 2 multiplier.
- Summoners are likely to be sent on more critical missions with higher cost of failure, so the multiplier will be 2.5
- This is how many jutsu that we are likely to get for the clan other than the summoner.
- I expect we got a bit lucky with Keiko but otherwise 2 seems reasonable.
- Expected value we can earn via cross-dimensional arbitrage.
- We got about 5 mil per month via the pangolins, so I'm going to assume 2 mil / month is a reasonable baseline, w/ kagome getting a bit less because he's not as good at negotiation.
There's a very tiny loss in monetary benefit to choosing Akane over Hazou in my estimate, but I'd argue that her time and XP are not worth as much on the margin. Hazou can use that 250 xp for PotO, Sealing, Socials, and the like. Having better sealing skills will be incredibly useful for us and make us very valuable to Leaf, socials will help us retain and cement that position.
I'm more on board with the idea of getting a summoning scroll in general after this analysis, since the time cost is reasonable, but neither Hazou nor Kagome are the ones who should receive it. I can see arguments being made for Akane, Mari, or one of the newly adopted clan members, but it definitely shouldn't be Hazou or Kagome.
Of course, I'm less enthused about trading a reward for it especially since the extra adoption slots are incredibly valuable to us, even if we don't get any of the other perks included. We'd be better off giving reward 4 to Haru or someone under the condition that we get two of those extra adoption slots in perpetuity.
I'm less confident about that, there's not much difference between the direct and indirect cases in terms of information gathering.
The QMs only have so much time to write, and I'd rather focus on detail for the elemental nations (where we can cause significant change in the short term) than detail for the 7th path. Especially since productive involvement with the 7th path isn't very information heavy.
Yes, we have to deal with the intermediaries being more agentic, but I count that as a good thing from the character development side.
Mmm, I think you're putting too much stock into summoning as a method for unlocking the out. We're going to need significantly better base sealing for that to be plausible anyway, and sealing is more useful to us in the short run than a summoning scroll and the associated XP expenditures.
Likewise, that'ol MfD feeling, while being made a bit more likely by having summons, isn't guaranteed to result. Even if getting a summoning scroll is a neccesary step to resurrection, it's far from the only neccesary step we haven't taken.
I think Orochimaru is a much more plausible and likely path to understanding resurrection and frankly we're not going to catch up to him in raw power anyway, even with summons. If we want to subvert him it'll have to be through social, economic, or societal means.
Also, I suspect we can make further chances to get summoning scrolls in the future even if we don't get this one. They're not all fungible, but there's nothing that makes any of the visible options stand out.
Fair, but how valuable is that to you compared to a few thousand civilians rapidly teching up to the industrial era, or a higher sealing skill that we can use (along with Jiraiya's notes and our own creativity) to bootstrap ourselves to near S-Class.
Sitting with Itachi and Kisame is a super-high-risk, high-reward, low-probability-of-success move. We've got better options in the short term, even on that route.
Sending a secret message to the Crows or Sharks that may prompt Itachi or Kisame to contact us in the EN is arguably as useful and safer. We have the same chance of being killed either way, but with a message we get the backing of Leaf to protect us. Given Leaf's current state we can ensure that the meeting is cordial and both parties can walk away if they so choose. We get a little less freedom to plan and interact, but that's probably a worthwhile sacrifice for the extra institutional coordination we could leverage.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
You know what, why not?
Wordcount: 278
[X] Action Plan: Flight, Family, and Iron Nerve
Wordcount: 278
[X] Action Plan: Flight, Family, and Iron Nerve
- After you leave:
- Ask Kagome if he's interested in learning Shadow Clone. Two Kagomes could decrypt or scribe twice as fast, after all, and you could watch each other's backs.
- Noburi could compare your chakra to Keiko's if you're not sure if you have enough.
- Run the rest by the clan before executing:
- Make sure to prioritize sorting through Jiraiya's notes in what free time you have.
- You may not know anything about cryptography but you can probably sort and organize the decrypted stuff.
- Spend 1FP to have previously memorized every seal in the Tower's catalog.
- Scribe out a copy of each (stay under surveillance if the clan is worried about you scribing seals)
- Bring them to Asuma in addition to whatever descriptions you can recall, in case Leaf didn't have surviving backup caches for any of them.
- Scout out minor clans that might have unused adoption slots and sound out how much they're worth to them.
- Have tea with Ino.
- Goal: have some nice harmless de-stressing fun.
- Swap idioms and jokes from our different upbringings. We've got shark jokes, what do you have?
- Discuss some of the differences between Leaf and Mist culture, but keep everything lighthearted.
- Invite Yuno out to sparring sessions, try and help her feel more included.
- Skysliders:
- Begin regularly checking in on the craftsmen and getting progress reports.
- Contribute any ideas or inspiration you think might help (such as your insights on updrafts from way back in Mist)
- Test their prototypes at safe low altitudes.
- Raise morale:
- An inspiring speech never hurt.
- Set up a prize for getting a functional prototype design: a sizeable sum of money or a personal favour from us.
- Begin regularly checking in on the craftsmen and getting progress reports.
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[X] Getting the Show on the Road.
Adoption
Adoption
- Do whatever is best to get the slots needed.
- Buy slots from minor clans.
- Request slot exemption from Asuma for any clan Yuno might want to marry into.
- Offer to continue paying taxes when exceeding adoption slots.
- Schedule the vote for temporary increase in slots, unless Asuma disapproves.
- Welcome Haru and his family into the clan after adoption is finalized.
- Interview and recruit appropriate craftmans for the skunkwork.
- Post rewards for achieving milestones(proof of concept, production model, etc). Reward go up to and including adoptions.
- Contribute any ideas or inspiration you've had recently.
- Test their prototypes (use skywalkers if possible to make testing safer).
- Maybe give an inspiring speech to raise morale.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Not really the Out, the other paths in general.
The summoning technique (so far as we can tell) is a hybrid ninjutsu/sealing technique that allows one to summon an intelligence from across dimensions into a temporary construct body (along with a whole host of other things).
Now, I'm almost entirely sure this would be frowned upon in character, but I think theres a lot to potentially be gained by playing around with that from the hacking/sealing side of things.
I agree with the rest of your analysis in the broad strokes. Disagree on the conclusions a bit: to me, the 250 XP spent on the stunt has value that compounds very nicely over time (the ability to whistle up 1-2 high level bodyguards whenever we may need them is great, the opportunity to start investing social capital in exchange for lore/techniques/knowledge/super shiny stuff is great) in a similar sense to sealing.
[Though, when it comes down to it, acquiring more scrolls is probably worthwhile just to use as bargaining chips and to set up our vast logistics-breaking trade empire.]
I'm not really sold on us focusing the next two months or so on hunting summoning scrolls though, especially given Asuma's pretty much giving one away (I pretty much have either the Uchiha or Ami's KEI faction pegged for the "Clan head + adoption slots" reward, unless we really get things into gear).
(insert rant about never actually doing any sealing research)
- Location
- Yes.
And Radvic wasn't even involved.
What happened to him, anyway? Did he get lost while hiking?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Great, sounds good.
Could you also go out for some tea with Ino? She could probably use a destressor, and I don't think shes had significant screentime since Ch250 or so. Also while friendship is magic, it does need nutrients to stay alive.
[] Action Plan: Flight, Family, and Iron Nerve
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I'm wary of stretching the plan too thin (and you know what happens when the plan is stretched thin and the QMs needs to cut things) but I think we might be able to fit something like this in without pressuring Velorien unduly. Do you have a topic in mind, or should I just pencil in 'about how to defend your mind against external influences'?
I'd also love to talk to her about working together for a mental health initiative as a contribution!
- Location
- Yes.
I'd argue that the Yamanaka and Akimichi may well be following a similar policy.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Didn't Shikamaru say that things had eased up on that front recently?
- Location
- Potato land
Honestly, this seems like a thin plan to begin with from Velorien's perspective. We should put in at least one scene with potential for interesting character drama. Like sending Akane to check up on Aya, for example. Feed the monster, lest it feed on you, and so forth.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Well doublechecking:
The first two bulletpoints are probably like, half a scene each maximum. The last one is more or less a footnote. The third will probably have the meat in the form of "Noburi sputters incoherently as Yuno jumps for joy while dangerously swinging an axe around" or what have you. I think we're good as long as we keep it light. Sound about right?
Ask her how things have been. Be an outlet if needed. Listen intently.
One fun conversational bit we could do: Ask her what the local idioms and insults are --it's funny, we're used to ones that have sharks. (Even your weddings are sharkless!) Do folks go around calling us salt-sniffers under their breathe or something equally silly?
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Please specify that Yuno should not be in the room when that happens, or she'll kill someone.
This "marriage" would have no legitimacy in anyone's eyes. It obviously wouldn't exist by Leaf laws. It also wouldn't exist by Isan laws, since the only Isan ninja we have is a probable missing-nin (i. e., no longer an Isan ninja) with no authority to officiate anyone's marriage, let alone her own. This would be equivalent to Noburi and Yuno just saying "we're married now", hold as much water, and bind no-one to anything.
I'm not categorically opposed to suggesting this, but I'm 95% sure it'll be another "Hazou can't into social" moment.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
OTOH, I think Noburi basically (mis)communicated to her that this is how all marriages pretty much work in the EN, no?
And then she was all like "What!? (And so then why arent WE married now then bucko ?!?!?) "
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Well, if we're shopping around for adoption slots anyways I might as well leave it out. It's a decent idea if we run out of slots and can get rid of the problems, but there's no need to float an idea that'd need a lot of work unless our plan A fails us.
In the interest of not starting up yet another initiative to guide through its inception (therapy's cool but it can wait), I think I'll go with this as the topic to focus on.
edit: implemented
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