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So you're saying land will be really cheap to buy from the Daimyo, got it :thonk:

Especially if we frame it as "land to do sealing/jutsu experiments on", which is technically true.

We're testing how effective force walls are at being uber ploughs

This is literally the strategy I said above.

It's not the Daimyo's land. It is the Hokage's land, which he graciously allows the Daimyo to collect tax on.
 
Reference: Calculating Land Value
So you're saying land will be really cheap to buy from the Daimyo, got it :thonk:

It depends whether or not the Daimyo actually owns the land or just administrates it for the Kage. The latter seems more likely. But in either case, wild undeveloped land shouldn't be too expensive as there is a substantial abundance of such in LoF. Leaf's limiting factor is not fertile land but rather the security needed to keep said land free of chakra beasts. I imagine land that is closer to a source of security (major cities) would be somewhat more expensive as it's cheaper to protect.

The market value of land can be calculated by the following:

For land with 0 security costs -


Normal Land: 1 Sengoku Cho is roughly 5 acres and produces 11.7 Koku worth of food, 1 Koku is worth 4,240 Ryo. 4.5 Koku are spent feeding the farmers working the land, profits from 1 Cho equal 7.2 Koku = 30,528 Ryo per annum. Capital value of fertile, secured, land is equal to 10 - 20x the annual profit, so a value of 300,528 - 601,056 Ryo per Cho or 15 - 30 million Ryo per sq. kilometer.

Chakra Soil Land: As above but it produces 22.5 Koku worth of food using 4.5 farmers, profits from chakra land equal 18 Koku per year or 76,320 Ryo. Capital value is thus roughly 2.5 times that of Normal Land.

For land with security costs -

Land with an annual security cost less than the profit per annum will be worth (30,528 - Cost of Security)*(10 to 20)
Chakra land is the same but use 76320 instead of 30,528.
Land with an annual security cost above the profit per annual is effectively worthless and should be very cheap.

One can either raise the productivity of the land (efficient farming methods) or lower the security cost (clearing it and building walls). If lowering the security cost is a known effective tactic, then lands that this tactic can be applied to will be more expensive. The market value of such lands would be (The Capital Value - The Investment Needed to Lower Security Costs to 0 or near 0), shortened to (C - I). If I is high enough, said land will still be near-worthless because it's too difficult to secure.

You can figure out the market value of a given plot of land (assuming it's reasonably close to Leaf) by taking its Capital value and deducting:

1) The cost of however many Chakra Beast Extermination missions is needed to clear the land, plus
2) The cost of however many missions it takes to remove tree stumps and otherwise make the land suitable for habitation, plus
3) The cost of however many missions it takes to wall off the land.
 
12.5% interest rate seems insanely high to me? How on earth did y'all end up at that rate?
Personally 12.5% was much better than I was expecting. I thought medieval interest rates were generally super duper draconian with ridiculous 20-50% interest rates.
 
Personally 12.5% was much better than I was expecting. I thought medieval interest rates were generally super duper draconian with ridiculous 20-50% interest rates.

Medieval banks didn't charge interest as a general rule of thumb, what with the whole usury thing.

EDIT: Fwiw, rice brokers in Tokugawa Japan charged between 12 and 15% interest rates on loans but banking at the time was quite a lot more complicated than modern banking. It's complicated because the economy in MfD is kinda weird and doesn't really make much sense. 12.5% might be more reasonable than it appears at first glance but it kinda depends on a lot of factors relating to how revenues work, how rice fields work, etc. There probably shouldn't even really be a concept of banks and lenders but here we are.
 
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I just realized that a bunch of the plans I have for mid term uplift are essentially like the mortgage place in It's a Wonderful Life.

We give loans with good interest rates for startups/expansions of civilian business, along with having them rent to own the land they're on. Slowly more and more of Konoha is indebted to us for breaking them out of poverty, until Uncle Kagome loses a check.

Old man Hiashi finds the check, and decides to hide it knowing it'll put Gouketsu Inc out of business, gleefully rubbing his hands all the while.


.... I want to write this omake now.
 
Is there a list somewhere of what tier each seal is graded as? Is it based on the difficulty of creating the seal? Or possibly the utility of the seal?

I know it was mentioned earlier that when the strength of the seal is dependant on the strength of the sealsmaster so is the cost, but are all seals treated that way?

(In the infodump Kagome is chunin level and Hazuo is genin level (why is Hazuo genin level hes a Chunin (its obviously determined on some other metric shush Twinnstars)) does that mean that any seal made by kagome is worth chunin level and any made by hazuo genin? If thats the case the easy munchkin is to have Hazuo only submit seals to the tower in Kagomes design.)
 
We should start attracting high tier civilian talent. Not as adoptees. But give them patronage and let them live in the unsecured buildings.

This is ~6 months out from being a good idea.

What we can do right now is let Tsunade set up a rent free medical school in the heart of Leaf.
 
On another note: Is there anything like a patent system for providing incentive for sealmasters to share their seals?
 
On another note: Is there anything like a patent system for providing incentive for sealmasters to share their seals?

Theres that thing with the Tower where you submit the blueprints and blanks and copies of your seal and everyone who makes that seal and sells it gives a percentage of the revenue to you , I think ?
 
Yep. I originally put the mortgage rate at 20% and was amazed when historical reference showed that more reasonably it should be a measly 12.5% @Evenstar, were you the one who backed that down, or what that @Rihaku?

It's mine.

@Sampatrick has the general shape of it right. I'm not certain of the exact reference for the 12.5% number - there were so many things I was looking through that it's all blurred together quite a bit - but I am very certain that it's 12.5%, and that if anything this is on the low side. (The assumption here is that if you're large and can beat up the moneylender, you get better rates because they would like to keep you happy.)

Moneylenders were definitely a thing in those times; we have multiple Sengoku-era references to small (and not so small!) samurai being forced to borrow funds in order to afford armor for all the men they were required to provide. (Armor is goddamn expensive!)

Yes, banks did not exist then. In fact, standardized currency didn't exist then. It was a fucking mess; people traded in rice, chinese coins, weight of gold, weight of silver, copper coins issued by half a dozen different places, rough silver chunks that were supposed to all weigh the same but didn't always...

We're eliding some of the details and using a bit of a more modern finance system just so that we don't have to deal with the players doing something like "Figuring out that this particular coin is worth more as scrap metal than the face value, buying up all of them they can, melting them down, and reselling at a profit." The QMs have enough headaches just dealing with "what if the players decide to become moneychangers and do arbitrage on the value of the Mist Ryo versus the Leaf Ryo??"

Edit:
PS: Please don't do this.
 
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The QMs have enough headaches just dealing with "what if the players decide to become moneychangers and do arbitrage on the value of the Mist Ryo versus the Leaf Ryo??"
HAZOU: So if we have a summoner in Mist and a summoner in Leaf and the value of the Mist Ryo and the Leaf Ryo fluctuate on average by--

SHIKAMARU: Literally what do I have to give you to stop doing this to me? First the "fractional reserve" banking, then that crazy international soup market you were going on about, now this! I'll give you whatever you want, just stop doing this to me every other week!
 
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They seem to be similar on the surface, at least where chakra and fuinjutsu aren't messing about with things.

If we're doing in depth things that rely on stuff that isn't an intuitive observation (punch storage seal, thing goes fast. Heat seawater, salt remains. Put super hot + super cold EM zones next to each other, fucky shit probably gonna happen. Forcewalls on frames= most useful thing for ignoring weight of objects and slicing shit up real good.) then we're going too deep.

Screw that. We need to aim for a grand unified theory of chakra chronodynamics and an accelerator large enough to split the chakron.



Leaf needs Naruto strong more than they need Naruto active.

His very existence is a backstop leaf needs. Given that he's not in tip top shape yet, it's much for beneficial for him to recover effectively.

Being an assistant doesn't compromise his health (and a routine might even help with the trauma) while still helping Naruto be useful



I'm reasonably confident i've been the biggest advocate for this, and there are a pile of motivations behind my push.

  • The implied level of math available is absurdly high, I want to know why.
    • We are talking about a medieval culture that explicitly does not have a notion of a public intelligencia. In the EN secrets are meant to be kept.
    • Also, it's a death world, and the surplus manpower needed to explore math is just not available.
    • So you'd expect the amount of collective maths knowledge to be strictly below that of late-medieval Europe which had neither of those problems.
    • Yet there's allusions to:
      • Math in dimensionalities much higher than 4.
        • People didn't realize that spaces with non-flat curvature were consistent till Lobachevsky.
      • Complex cryptography and cryptanalysis, that's more than just steganography.
        • Hell we only broke the vigenere cipher in 1863, and that's the next simplest thing to a straight substitution cipher.
      • Other things I can't recall off the top of my head.
    • There's got to be a reason for this:
      • The sage and dummy handing out maths when they gave away technique hacking and sealing.
      • Cryptography actually being ludicrously primitive by our standards.
      • Some way for people in the EN to understand and manipulate high dimensional with the same ease that we can intuitively work with 4d system. (E.g. imagining the 4th spacial axis as time, and similar tricks. Nowhere near as easy as 3d, but still well within the realm of easy imagination.)
    • All of those possibilities either give us avenues for munchkining or are useful things to know for sure.
  • The math needed for public key crypto and hash functions fits on a single sheet of paper, incl. proofs and explanations.
    • That could give us an absurd amount of security relative to everyone else's crypto, as well as signing, better steganography, etc...
  • Basic signal processing concepts (not even the actual math) are enough to help Hazou develop very powerful sealtech.
    • Stuff on the order of pre-vacuum tube electronics.
      • I'll note that telegraphs, radio, fax machines, telephones, and early radar-like systems (telemobiloscope) , were all around before vacuum tubes, albeit not in their current forms.
  • Knowing what broad categories of math Hazou has access to (esp. the math for sealing, crypto, and summoning) gives us easy hooks to reapply that same math in other places.
    • Lots of other places. :ninja:
In a world like this, with tools like sealing and technique hacking, math is an incredibly powerful crowbar. It can open tons of doors for us.

Two things. First, math tends to follow application, however much that makes pure mathematicians cringe. One can actually get a decent overview of a historical society's mathematicial sophistication by how many digits of Pi they bothered with. The Bible says Pi = 3 because that was fine for figuring out how much fence you need for a goat pen. On the other hand, a sealmaster might actually make pi = 3 within a certain area, which would mean that they wouldn't train as many students as a more mathematically sophisticated sealmaster.

Second, post-apocalypse. Once something is known it's really hard to completely stamp it out. Earth civilization could collapse tomorrow, but chances are that whatever grew out of the ashes would benefit from logarithms and slide rules regardless of their otherwise medieval tech level.



The obvious reason is the world for MfD is actually a post apocalyptic society, and the military retained related math as secrets during the fall (encryption is... valuable, and as noted you need a lot of background to get it to work right), which was picked up by sealmasters as another universal language to use to help generate seals.

Obviously, many of the advanced concepts and proofs were lost, and some things which are "known" lack the related proof, but generational knowledge of "this is true" has been sufficient.

Obviously, then, some of the worst sealing failures are a result of when that knowledge has slipped and the stated theorem is not true, or is missing conditions.

Math tells you what reality is. Sealing tells reality what reality is.



Alright, so: I've read up on Discord discussions, and the bickering about scheduling is becoming an actual issue. One of the reasons behind it is extremely-short-term nature of current plans: everyone wants different things and they all want them done now, and if said things aren't included in any given cycle's winning plan, it feels as if they'll never be done.

Here is a spreadsheet I threw together in an attempt to ameliorate the problem. The intent is to add new tasks the thread is interested in doing to it, move them around as discussion progresses for more efficiency; it'll act as soft and mutable but nevertheless somewhat concrete commitment to doing them.

As it is, properly utilized, it should allow us to schedule everything for this entire in-character week hour-by-hour. I've already added some things from the previous plan, and I invite you to add more.
"Just a little longer," Hazō wheezed. "I'm nearly done working on a plan which should cover all our activities for the next few weeks, and by that time I'll be able to use the knowledge we gain to make an even better one."

"Hazō, did you sleep at all last night?" Noburi asked. "I didn't hear you come back to your bedroll."

"I'm fine," Hazō said, the fatigue seeping through despite his best efforts. "And anyway, it needed doing. We don't know how long we've got before some new crisis turns up, and we need to use this time efficiently to strengthen ourselves. Now please, let me get back to the training schedules—"

Mari-sensei snatched the stack of paper out of his hands and flipped through it.

"All right, let's take a look. Keiko's negotiations, yeah, I see, fine… Now what's this 'fugue' part?"

"Gaah!" Hazō urgently grabbed the sheet of paper out of her hands. When no other options presented themselves to his hazy mind, he promptly rolled it up in a ball and ate it.

"What? Why are you all staring at me? That part of the plan wasn't ready!"

The silence lasted for nearly a minute, the rest of the team exchanging worried glances, before Keiko finally broke it.

"Hazō," she took a deep breath, "as I mentioned to you in Leaf, I believe your propensity for list-making has moved beyond the realm of adaptive caution and foresight, and grown into an maladaptive coping mechanism which provides addictive—and false—reassurance through the appearance of control over your situation. You—you're scaring us, Hazō."

What was she talking about? He'd always made lists for the team. And it always… nearly always… usually worked. It was his thing. Why was she getting worried about it now?

"I don't know what you're talking about, Keiko," he said firmly, then yawned. "My lists aren't some sort of coping mechanism. They're what we need in order to have control over our situation—OK, fine, those are the exact words you used, but that doesn't make them wrong! Our resources are limited, and if we don't use them optimally, we don't stand a chance in this increasingly chaotic world!

"And optimal plans are long-term plans. If we can get as much use out of the next few weeks as possible, then our survival chances go way up. How is that not obvious? Now, please, give me back my draft and let me get back to it. I still need to outline the rest of my suggestions for Keiko's training regimen."

Keiko looked helplessly to the people around her. Unexpectedly, it was Kagome-sensei who supported her.

"Hazō, there's this thing that happens sometimes to sealmasters who're under too much stress. It's called Saviour Syndrome, and we don't like to talk about it much. It tends to happen to sealmasters who lose too much too fast, or get stuck in a really bad situation with no way out for too long. They decide that if they can just invent the perfect seal, or perfect combination of seals, they'll be able to make everything all right. So they lock themselves in the lab. They don't eat. They don't sleep. They just research and test. Research and test."

Kagome-sensei gave Hazō a long, sad look.

"And it only ever ends one way."

"Kagome-sensei!" Hazō sputtered. "Don't tell me you're buying into all this. I'm not pretending I can save the world just by creating the right seals."

He stopped.

"I mean, that is my ultimate goal.

"But I'm not trying to accomplish it right now!" he hurriedly added on seeing the team's faces. "It's just that I finally have an opportunity to make a really good plan, a plan that'll cover a lot of time and achieve a lot of things with it, and make everything better for us. We need to do this right while we have the time!"

"This is my fault," Mari-sensei said quietly. "I should have caught this much, much earlier. Hazō, there's nothing wrong with having coping mechanisms. Life sucks, and if you don't find a way of shoving the suffering aside for a little while when you can't take any more, then you go crazy and get yourself killed. That's just how it is. Even the Kage have their vices.

"But some coping mechanisms only make things worse. I've been through a hell of a lot of those, so I know where you're coming from, and I'm sorry I didn't notice in time.

"This," she hefted his incomplete masterwork, "this isn't how healthy people relate to the world around them. Even the Mizukage doesn't plan out his every action for the next month, as far as I know. It's not saké, and it's not mindless sex or drugs or self-mutilation or any of the other traditional means of hurting yourself in order to avoid pain, and I guess we should be grateful for that. But it's still dangerous, and I can't believe I didn't realise it sooner."

Hazō didn't like where this was going.

"Please. Please just let me finish this one list. It'll keep us going for the month, and we won't need any more until we've got through it. Just one more list, and then I'll stop."

"I'm sorry, Hazō," Mari-sensei shook her head. "I'm cutting you off. Kagome, I'll need you to collect all the paper and writing implements in the camp."

"You can't do this!" Hazō insisted. "I'm fine! And we need those lists. We need someone to do the detailed planning, so that we have a core structure around which we can discuss and make decisions! We need a means of turning ideas into practical steps towards our goals! We need my lists!"

"No, Hazō," Mari-sensei said. "Not as much as we need you. From now on, and until you're over this, until you find better coping strategies, no writing without supervision. I'm still your team leader, despite everything, and I won't let you destroy your health—physical or mental."

"Don't do this," Hazō begged. "Planning is what I do. It's my place on the team. Without my plans, I might as well not be here…"



Please do. I would love to write more Jiraiya, especially his reaction to being resurrected.

You're gonna carry that weight...
 
[x] Action Plan: Disheartening Lack of All-Consuming Horror (Original Character Donut Steel)

I keep on voting, I'm 100% following the thread. Yay for hurricanes of salt and ice! (or is that over already?)
 
Rejoice, for the answers are available!

In a fine example of gratitude and preemptively throwing people under the bus, we would like to state that @Evenstar and @Rihaku are responsible for the vast majority of the following, without them it would not have happened, and if there turns out to be anything wrong with it then it's absolutely their fault and not ours we are extremely grateful. +20 XP as a thank-you to both of you. You guys rock.

We aren't going to make the actual spreadsheets public, since it's mostly specifics that Hazō doesn't have, but here's the key details. Recall that 10 ryō (R10) = 1 US dollar ($1):

The Gōketsu warchest
You have R10,000,000 in the bank right now. This includes every source of money that the clan and its component individuals have ever received.

The Gōketsu mortgage
In mint condition, your property would be worth R102,300,000.

Jiraiya got it half off, with a 10-year mortgage of R51,150,000 principal with a R5,000,000 down payment and a 12.5% annual interest rate.

Your monthly mortgage payment is R675,526 according to the mortgage calculator website we plugged the numbers into. +1 XP if someone digs through the timeline and figures out the date on which the mortgage was taken out so we know how much of it has been paid off.

The market price of seals
Price per Jounin-Grade Seal Element R2290
Price per Chunin-Grade Seal Element R760
Price per Genin-Grade Seal Element R250

Explosive tags and storage seals are 1 element, Air/Earth Domes are 2, and Five Seal Barriers are (unsurprisingly) 5. Skywalkers are just Air Domes (2 elements each) and need to be used in pairs, meaning that a skywalker is effectively 4 elements.

(Kagome is rated as a chūnin-grade sealmaster. Hazō is rated genin-grade. Getting upgraded is a process the details of which are firmly HDK for now.)

An average till'n'fill mission is R500-2,000 ($50-200), meaning that using 2 explosives eats all the pay for a low-end TNF.

Note that not all seals can be made by all sealsmiths, because that person either isn't skilled enough to learn the seal or simply hasn't done so. This should really influence prices, but we aren't going to worry about it in most cases since that's a little more fussy than we want to get / have the skills to get. We'll probably add a bit of fuzzing where appropriate so it doesn't look like everything is completely deterministic, but these are the basic numbers that you can plan around.

Taxes: How do they work?!
There are eight general classes of people in the Land of Fire: Rural farmers, urban farmers (i.e., farmers who live inside the walls of Leaf or one of the major cities), non-farm workers, the nobility (the Daimyo and the local lords), the Hokage, clan ninja, clanless jōnin, and clanless ninja (meaning the genin, chūnin, and special jōnin who are not clan ninja). Taxes flow like this, with some money sticking at each level:

Rural farmers > Local lords > Daimyo > Hokage > Clan ninja + clanless jōnin
Urbanites (farmer and not) > Daimyo > Hokage > Clan ninja + clanless jōnin
All ninja > Hokage > Clan ninja + clanless jōnin

Tax rate for all ninja is 80%, with the first R42,400 (i.e. annual subsistence income for a ninja) not taxed. See below about refunds for clans.

The essence of this is that the Hokage rules everything and bribes the clans + clanless jōnin to keep them loyal to Leaf, the Daimyo and nobles are glorified tax collectors, and clanless ninja get screwed.

The money that goes to clans / clanless jōnin is paid 10% as a non-conditional cash transfer to the Clan Head / jōnin and the other 90% is in the form of conditional payments -- equipment allotments, tax refunds, bonuses to mission pay, etc. (See below for more.) The large majority of the non-conditional cash payment is typically used on clan investments, etc with only a small (or zero) allowance to each ninja.

(NB: Clanless ninja receive an equipment issue each month from the Tower's discretionary fund. The recipient can choose how to allocate the funds and will typically spend it on a couple of explosive tags unless they really need new uniforms, kunai, etc. Again, any monies not spent go into the Tower's discretionary fund.)

The benefits money is not divided evenly. By law, the 8 founding clans (Senju, Hyūga, Aburame, Inuzuka, Uchiha, Nara, Akimichi, Yamanaka) receive 70% of the money; the remaining 30% is divided among the non-founding clans (including the Gōketsu) and clanless jōnin.

Hazō has not been shown to know any of this onscreen, nor have we shown him getting registered to receive the Gōketsu stipends. We don't want to waste time with that, so we'll assume it's what he's been doing with his timeskipped hours since getting back from the Exams. This means that he has not had time for seal research.

Legal implications of the above
The money paid from the Tower to the clans is a fixed pool and awarded on a per-ninja basis. That means that the payments are zero-sum. When the Gōketsu were formed it cost all the other non-founding clans money and every time the Gōketsu adopt a clanless ninja the Gōketsu clan receives more money and every other non-founding clan ninja / clanless jōnin receives less money. Similarly, when Keiko stopped being a Gōketsu and became a Nara, some of the stipend that you had been receiving got taken away from you and given to the Nara. Based on this, we have decided that there are laws saying no clan may add more than 2 clanless ninja per year to their ranks. Ninja may transfer freely between clans, since that doesn't affect anyone else. (Note: We had not realized that these laws needed to exist, so an IRL month ago you would have been free to adopt as many clanless ninja as you liked. Hazards of asking us to work out a consistent economic system.) Naruto obviously does not count against your 2-ninja allotment, since he's a clan ninja.

Gōketsu income
There's some income from selling seals. We haven't figured out the numbers yet.

The Gōketsu receive a maximum total value of R382,700 per month (R76,540 per ninja * 5 ninja (Hazō, Noburi, Akane, Mari, Kagome)) from the Tower. This is divided into 10% non-conditional payment and 90% conditional payments, as follows:

  • R38,270 : Non-conditional monthly cash stipend from the Tower bureaucracy, paid directly to Hazō as Clan Head.
  • R344,430 : Maximum monthly value of conditional payments (CP), divided as follows. NOTE: Any portion of these that is not used will be retained by the Tower as part of its discretionary budget. There's no carryover.
    • Up to R258,322 (75% of CP): 50% bonus to mission pay + tax refund. All ninja face an 80% tax on their mission pay above the untaxed R42,400 annual subsistence rate; the tax is paid at the point of payment, meaning that if the client is paying R100 for a mission then you actually receive R20. If you are a clan ninja then the following month's benefits payment to your clan will include an extra R50 (50% bonus on the mission price) + R80 (refund of the tax). This makes it look as though it's fair to both clan and clanless while hiding the fact that clans are getting paid extra and aren't actually paying the tax.
    • Up to R51,644 (15% of CP): Equipment draw at Tower rates. This generally means seals, since all other ninja equipment is pretty cheap. In all cases, the Tower has discretion over what it can be used on. You still have to pay your monthly tax in seals and then provide first refusal on all other seals, but you can then immediately buy the seals back at the same rate you were paid by the Tower.
    • Up to R34,430 (10% of CP): Various other things that will probably come up but we haven't thought of. Suggestions welcome.

Things the Gōketsu want to do with their money
The Hagoromo have debts amounting to R2,000,000 / month for the next 15 years. If the Gōketsu take over this debt then the Hagoromo agree that in the upcoming election for Hokage they will vote for whomever the Gōketsu tell them to vote for. They have expressed an extremely strong preference that this be anyone other than Hyūga.


EDIT: Original language referred to the "conditional payments" as "non-monetary benefits", which is not correct. They are in fact cash, it's simply that you only get the cash if you do missions etc.

Jiraiya's promotion of Hazou and Kagome to top-level grandmaster sealmasters with only three colleagues and no superiors or supervision for Tower sealing purposes presumably means that they are entitled to at least Jounin level prices, at least from the Tower, right?



Question for clarification: if a clanless marries into a clan, the clan gets more income for the additional member and it doesn't count against the adoption limit, right?

I'm imagining this loophole is considered acceptable by the clans because there's only so many people in a clan that can get married, and most clans won't want to marry clanless very often for political alliance and bloodline related reasons.





Kagome was included in the clan when it formed along with everyone else, I'm pretty sure he won't be seen as counting against the limit.




We won't just pay Hagoromo's debts for them, that'd be financially non-viable. We want to figure out some way of shifting the debt so that they owe us instead of the Hyuga. The simplest way of doing that would be to hand the Hyuga the principle (R162,300,000.00 if I did the math right, assuming 12.5% interest, which is what we got on the mortgage) and start taking monthly payments from the Hagoromo. Sadly we don't have that kind of money and probably can't borrow it, so we might need to figure something else out. There are a few options:
  1. We could go to all the clans in our coalition who don't want Hiashi getting elected and suggest they buy shares of the Hagoromo's debt. Collectively they buy out the loan, then the Hagoromo split up their loan payment amid the clans that helped, proportionate to how much they paid in. Basically the Hagoromo trade one huge loan to the Hyuga for a bunch of smaller loans to friendly clans. This puts the Hagoromo in a much more stable political position and it's actually a fairly sound financial investment for the other clans so it shouldn't be too hard to pitch. We'd throw a lot of our cash at in, but it'd be smart to keep some in reserve for other investments, expenses, and emergencies.
    From the Goketsu perspective this plan also keeps us from having to be in a position where we're looking at far higher monthly outflows than income, which is a good thing.
  2. We somehow borrow the money ourselves, and loan it to the Hagoromo to use to pay off their debt to the Hyuga. The Hagoromo direct their payments to us instead of the Hyuga, and we use the money to pay off whoever we borrowed the money from. Probably some combination of friendly clans, summons, and organized crime.
  3. We make a private contract with the Hagoromo where we essentially guarantee their debt. In the event that they can't pay the entire loan amount to the Hyuga each month we'll loan them the remainder, to be repaid eventually under some sort of pre-negotiated terms. Alternatively, we figure something out where if the Hagoromo have to default we ensure the clan survive having their assets default over to the Hyuga by loaning them places to live, etc that don't technically belong to them.
  4. Finally, we could attempt some sort of thing where we negotiate with the Hyuga directly to purchase the debt from them, but I don't think Hiashi will go for it even if we get clever and do something like have the Hagoromo do things that will make the Hyuga think they're inevitably going to default. The leverage is too useful to Hiashi and the timing of any scheme will look suspicious, even if we justify it with Hagoromo's income probably falling as a result of losing people in the Battle of the Gods.
I wish I had a better understanding of exactly how Hiashi is using the loan to jerk the Hagoromo around. Given the sheer size of the loan I'm somewhat surprised the Hagoromo haven't turned the tables and started using the threat of default to jerk the Hyuga around. The only thing I can think of is that the Hagoromo have more than enough non-liquid assets to cover the principle of the loan in the event of a default and they think they'd get soaked handing over far too much value in assets compared to the worth of the loan in the event of a default, but their cash income is low enough that they've been reliant on the Hyuga being willing to stretch out the loan and not declare it to be in default in exchange for political favors like votes.

If that guess is the case, option 3 above is the fastest and surest way to fix the problem, although option 1 would be more profitable.

Defaults in societies before the invention of modern bankruptcy tended to have very serious consequences. "Enslavement or valid provocation of private war" levels of bad. I wouldn't be surprised if failing to pay their debts meant the rest of the Clans let the Hyuuga do anything they wanted to them, up to and including seizing all assets and beginning an extermination campaign which would force the whole clan to try to secede, at which point all of Leaf, and really the entire world through missing-nin treaties comes down in them to finish the job.

There's a real chance that they're cooperating because they can't meet their nominal obligations and know that if the Hyuuga decide to really turn the screws it ends with the clan dissolved, 90% of them dead, and the few civilian survivors and all their descendants earning less than the interest payments on their debts for all time in Hyuuga-owned brothels. The Hyuuga are only being "nice" because having a pet minion clan completely under their thumbs is more valuable.

Something to think about before casually taking on oodles of debt now that we no longer have the Hokage and most dangerous man in the world completely behind us.



Fuck 'em. *thumbsup*

 
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