You can rank the quest list by number of posts. If you find anything more complicated, do let me know.
Thank you! I did not know that!

So the current quests with the most replies are:
  1. A Sword Without a Hilt. Unsurprising, seeing as it's currently at 3.1 million words. The one QM updates 3 times a day or more, and that's bound to generate a lot of discussion. And a second QM just joined up... Enormous lead over everyone else, unlikely to lose it anytime soon.
  2. Puella Magi Adfligo Systema. Never heard of it, no idea what it's about. I'm guessing magical girl animes, given the title. It seems to be locked though, and its lead over this quest is only around 300 pages.
  3. Paths of Civilisation, which has gotten good recs and started off with an immediate following given that it was written by Academia Nut (who's also got several other quests, and therefore started off with a large following). Never read it because I hated the shitshow Age of Strife eventually became. It's lead over this quest is only 30 pages or so...
  4. This quest. It's great, its three QMs are great, and it's a comfortable 600 pages or so ahead of the number 5!
  5. Embers in the Dusk, a WH43k quest. Is it any good? Dunno, it's a pain to binge so I never caught up. Is it worth the effort?
  6. Beyond this point, page count drops rapidly. There's no way the top 5 will change much in the next few months IMO, unless one of these quests dies or is permanently locked.

I'm not denying that Shed Skin was an amazing piece of work, I'm just saying there's no point in comparing the activity of the two since we have fundamentally different quest structures.

Picking "[vote] Use the Headhunter technique to counter this attack, try to engage in CQC afterwords." out of a handful of options is just plain different from the paradigm we've got going on here. Especially when you consider incentives for high voter participation. We don't really operate that way, so its sort of like comparing apples and oranges. Both are pretty good, but they're awesome for different reasons and in different ways.
Ah, I see. You're quite right.
 
I read this as her thinking Sarutobi would be a better choice moreso than Keiko being a bad choice; either way, I'd rather it be with Keiko since I don't want us to be owing Sarutobi a favor.

Still, we're going to be asking her and it's still her choice. ...also need to talk to Kabuto and see if it's even possible, fml.
Owing Sarutobi can be a good thing. It means his clan has bonds to ours.
 
To a degree.

He could (not saying that he would (just that this is a possibility)) cash in that favor by saying: "Goketsu, please do ME a favor and for the good of Leaf and its stability just let Hiashi win the hat."
Yes, but if we planned to vote for him anyway we could counteroffer, "Well, no, but how about we vote for you instead?"
 
To a degree.

He could (not saying that he would (just that this is a possibility)) cash in that favor by saying: "Goketsu, please do ME a favor and for the good of Leaf and its stability just let Hiashi win the hat."

1) If he doesn't want it to that extent then he's axed as a candidate anyway.

2) Equivalent exchange would demand it be something less unreasonable to ask than that, otherwise we can just say "I'm sorry, we appreciate what you've done for us and want to continue building this healthy relationship, but that favor really just isn't in the cards."
 
Alright, I'm a bit upset at how you've been levying these accusations at us despite past conversations on the matter making our opinions fairly evident and it just being flat-out rude to treat us with so little faith like we're just itching at the chance to commit more warcrimes, but I'll give you a quick rundown anyways:

Well, when i asked "So, what is our short-mid term solution" the answer was a flat "Of course, it's the untested long term plan that will bring peace to the entire seventh path", if i gave you the impression my reasoning was "You want do to warcrimes and i don't approve" than i give my excuses,this was(of course) not my intent and i'll be more careful to explain myself better.
But my question comes because when i asked what the plan was, the answer i received was, in my opinion,deeply unsatisfactory, therefore i engaged said answer.
While i understand your irritation, i really do,especially with such a subject, i find a bit unfair to receive an accusation and an answer at the same time, instead of an answer AND then, if i continued in a behavior you considers accusatory, a condemnation.
On other hand, i can assure you my answer was not directed to the whole thread, but the singular answer that was given to me.
This thread includes a multitude of opinions, and assuming it's only one is silly, at the same time, i cannot engage people on what they think, but on what they write.

  • It has always been the case, since the first arguments on this issue, that we only wish to support expansionist fascists until we have enough revenue that we don't need to. This means once we have salt, ice, and our other big mercantile ideas set up and the revenue from that is enough to sustain the clan we stop.

So the point is "Situation stable enough to survive"? because my point wasn't simply "Genocide is bad", i mean, of course it is, i know the rest of thread knows this too.
My point, if maybe badly explained, is that unless we decide clearly when to stop, we could find ourselves(me included) keeping the Pangolin deal because, well, it's insanely useful and there are always emergencies in the ninja world.
It is, we will almost never find ourselves in a situation in which we'll say "We don't know what to do with Pangolin gold", so a clear decision on where we can say stop it's useful, because while we will always need to pangolin gold, we won't need the pangolin gold to survive.
Because well, there are always emergencies, after the Hokage Election there could be war, and then a war with the Akatsuki and so, so it's important to decide between "We won't need the deal because we have enough money it's redundant" and "We don't need it to survive under normal circumstances" clearly.
Depending on this, we could decide to end it after the Hokage election, meaning Noburi won't replace the deal(With all the consequences this will bring), or we will keep it for a long time(With other consequences that this choice will bring).
Either one is understandable , but it something that need to be decided, this is my point.

  • Your opinion that our plan for seventh path peace is fundamentally impossible doesn't seem to be a prevailing opinion, rather the most common stance seems to be that it's got challenges if it's to work but that if we put in the effort we should be able to manage those challenges. And given that we were one Keiko away from being in the middle of implementing it right now, it's far from the same thing as a Kage talking about peace through the supremacy of their own village.

Nothing is fundamentally impossible.
I said it has flaws, some of which are pretty big and impossible(For the current Uplift team) to resolve.
An example: one simple problem is that plan implicitly assumes we are the only one with access with the 7th Path, while in reality other clans have summoners, and if we give seals to said clans and then threaten them of stopping the supply, the most obvious thing that will happen is that they will give said seals to theirs summoners that then will just study the seals and give it to their clan.
Worse case scenario?Proxy war in the 7th path between summoners.
This isn't something we can resolve unless we take all the summoning scroll for ourselves and well...you can see the problem with that.
It could also require a decent amount of time, and the problem with that is pretty clear.

Of course, i could be wrong and the problems i noted can be easily resolved.

but please give us some credit that you're not the first person to think genocide is bad here.

I'm not so arrogant to believe i'm the only one that believes this and, as i already said, if i gave you this impression, i'm sorry.
But my point about the importance of having a clear point when we are going to cut off the deal remains, and when the answer to my argument is "Clearly this plan will work", sidestepping the whole issue without engaging the core points of the problem...i'm going to note that.
 
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Problem is power saturation.

Doing that would make it much harder to control the clan.

Eh, it doesn't sound as if many clanless ninja even attended, much less survived, so we'd basically end up with a small bunch of (healthy) civilians with no pre-existing relationship to each other and therefore easily molded.

The small clan who just lost their head deciding to honor the clanless who died fighting next to him by providing a social safety net to their dependents probably isn't something any of the other clans will openly object to. However, it will be noticed by every clanless ninja. Without a clan they've basically got no way of ensuring that their loved ones will be okay if they fall, and that's probably one of their greatest worries. A clan which made its name by stepping up and filling that roll would win major points with them. There are probably quite a few who'd volunteer to join or even just pay a portion of their income just for the life insurance and security it offered families. The civilians would notice as well, and popularity with the civilian population is probably the best pressure point for budging the merchant council.

It would also heavily undermine political accusations that Gouketsu aren't sufficiently Leaf or provably loyal to its people or ideals.

Plus, aside from bringing in a good selection of healthy workers and business owners with their own skills and resources, it means that the civilian component of Gouketsu is composed of families who have produced ninja without the bad PR of appearing discriminatory.



Akane's birthday is coming up in a month...I've noticed some people are thinking about giving her that jewelry thing we bought during the courier mission, if we're doing that does anyone have thoughts on how we'd present it given it was initially meant as a boyfriend-to-girlfriend gift?

Explaining the situation and asking Ino for help finding an alternative might be a good bonding opportunity. She's got the personal knowledge and skills, and her biggest beef with Hazou is his poor treatment of Akane.



I read this as her thinking Sarutobi would be a better choice moreso than Keiko being a bad choice; either way, I'd rather it be with Keiko since I don't want us to be owing Sarutobi a favor.

Still, we're going to be asking her and it's still her choice. ...also need to talk to Kabuto and see if it's even possible, fml.

I still think it's worth asking the pangolins if any of them know the details. They're probably a more comprehensive source on the matter than almost anybody on the human path.
 
i'll be more careful to explain myself better.

On that note, and if I may interject:

It seems like your objections can be-- and correct me if I'm wrong-- succintly summarized by:


"I'm not quite sure this would work, and remain skeptical that its feasible. I am also skeptical that this would not just perpetuate the very genocide we seek to stop. "


In the future, could you just ... say something like that then? Lengthy supporting argument has its place ,and one need not open up with it immediately out of the gate. Being direct, and at the risk of violating politeness norms: your posts are pretty poorly formatted, you take quite a while to get to the point, and I get approximately half of a migraine trying to parse them. I don't mean to come off as insulting or make you feel bad about that, I'm just letting you know that thats how its coming across.

Would you mind spending some effort attempting to remedy that? Ultimately how you post and how you write your posts is up to you of course, I'm just letting you know its potentially making it quite a chore for others to engage with you in good faith and with the sort of due dilligence most of us try to put into thread-discussion.
 
It seems like your objections can be-- and correct me if I'm wrong-- succintly summarized by:

More:

"What do want to do? Do we have a clear point when we feel comfortable saying stop? Because we'll probably always need ungodly amount of money, so we need to decide what we want"
The answer to that was "7th Path deal", and i answered to that.

Would you mind spending some effort attempting to remedy that? Ultimately how you post and how you write your posts is up to you of course, I'm just letting you know its potentially making it quite a chore for others to engage with you in good faith and with the sort of due dilligence most of us try to put into thread-discussion.

With pleasure, no offence taken.
On the contrary, trying to help me improve communication is just a sign of good-faith, so the best thing to do is to follow your advice.
I will try to be more direct in the future.
 
Interlude: Sometimes Absent, Never Gone
Interlude: Sometimes Absent, Never Gone
When seeking to decapitate your enemy, confirm in advance that it is not a hydra.

—Mori Ryūgamine, the Angel Without Mercy


Jin's was the kind of life where he sat by the bedside of the Six-Tails jinchūriki, one of the most physically powerful men in the world and the key to Mist's salvation, and patiently fed him peeled apple slices, while his best friend tormented one of the most politically powerful women in the world and the key to Mist's rebirth, and while she toyed with the entire fate of that world purely because it sounded like fun.

Jin wouldn't trade this life for anything else.

"So the Mizukage didn't send you?" Utakata clarified.

"Not exactly," Jin admitted, picking up the next apple. "She's currently tied up in negotiations"—they'd made sure of it—"and we figured someone should keep you company until you feel better."

"That makes sense, I think," Utakata said. "Can I ask who you are?"

"Azai Jin, Senior Representative of Form for the Alliance for Mist's Illumination." Jin's knife began to slide through the skin. "It's a bit of a mouthful, so you can just call me Azai from the AMI."

Ami always kept her promises, even ones made at the age of seven. He would forever be her right-hand man, nothing less… and nothing more.

"My name is Utakata," said the man capable of destroying villages with a single breath. "It's nice to meet you. What is the AMI?"

"Glad you asked!" Jin beamed. "We're a cross-clan, cross-class organisation that represents the young people of Mist. We're like the exact opposite of Yagura, helping the Mizukage fix all the things he did wrong, and making sure Mist gets a fresh start. As you saw, we lost a lot of good people at the Battle of Nagi Island, and the majority of them were from the older generations. It's time for Mist's youth to step up to the plate and guide the village's future so that their sacrifice won't have been in vain."

The hand movements had to be subtle. Utakata was still in a low-energy state, and Jin needed to be enthusiastic, not overbearing. Expressive, not dramatic. Hypnotic, not manipulative. Still, that level of coordination was child's play for the taijutsu/weapons representative.

"You're already one of us, Utakata. You're a common-born outside the system, without a network of friends to support you, and the AMI wants to make sure that this time you feel like you belong, instead of having someone like Yagura use you as a weapon."

Jin offered Utakata another apple slice.

"Yagura," Utakata said slowly, reluctantly. "A beast wearing the skin of a boy. Or maybe a boy wearing the skin of a beast. They told me he was dead."

"Dead as a doornail," Jin said. "Do you get now why this is such a big chance for people like us? Individually, we're just junior ninja and commoners, but together, this is our time to change the world!"

Utakata bit into the slice. "Change the world how?"

-o-​

Kuroda Shinzō, Senior Representative of Spirit for the Alliance for Mist's Illumination, was not having a good day. Oh, he'd known in advance that he'd be the one mired in politics while Jin was playing with the hearts of the vulnerable and Ami was introducing her personal brand of chaos into Leaf like a kraken into a swimming pool. Insofar as they were easily able to fill in for each other—she'd made sure they grew up that way so they could outsource to experts where necessary, instead of risking overspecialisation—the matter had ultimately been settled by drawing lots. Today, Jin would be using his excitable Academy student shtick, and Shinzō his rock golem, which he was good at but didn't necessarily enjoy.

"I'm afraid that simply cannot be done, Lady Mizukage," he said with implacable respect. "The laws of mathematics are immutable."

"You are suggesting," the Mizukage said with the mien of a woman being courteous to someone wasting her time, "that a mere delay in genin reporting in after their D-ranks can have a tangible impact on the budget."

"One of our Mori members prepared a report." Shinzō rolled the scroll across the desk, allowing it to naturally unfurl so as to indicate its tremendous length. "Delayed genin are genin temporarily removed from circulation, effectively reducing the number of D- and C-rank missions Mist can accept."

The Mizukage's expression did not change at all as she scanned the scroll.

"Every shinobi out of circulation is a shinobi earning fewer mission fees," she observed. "This most unfortunate series of coincidences would be untenable."

"It does you credit to show such concern for the well-being of your subordinates," Shinzō said, briefly allowing his persona to slip. Oh, well, it wasn't like the head of the Kurosawa Clan couldn't see through it anyway. "Fortunately, we have anticipated the problem. The AMI also has a budget, and it would only be our duty to arrange compensation for these poor souls."

Shinzō shifted stance in accordance with Ami's lessons. He looked down at the still-undiscussed span of the scroll covering the desk. The unspoken words were, "I can do this all day. Can you, village leader at a time of crisis?"

-o-​

Hook, line and sinker. It was almost too easy, Jin reflected. Everything was going in accordance with one of Ami's most likely scenarios: Utakata had returned alive but traumatised, the Mizukage having won his absolute loyalty, but too busy to build on it due to the aftermath of the battle. Utakata now found himself alone and without friends, in a village that still remembered him as a hated missing-nin. Granted a pardon, but with no future beyond it except the nebulous concept of one day saving the village. Soon, the Mizukage would come up for air and find someone to babysit her new confused weapon of mass destruction, but Jin would make sure that by then it would be too late.

"Let me put it to you this way, Utakata," Jin said. "How would you change the world if you could?"

Too simple. Too easy. Jin wasn't lying about anything—Utakata really was a victim of the system into which he'd been born, just like the rest of them, and his power really was being exploited by higher-status ninja with no interest in his own needs or opinions.

Jin wasn't supposed to feel guilt for actions done in the name of saving people. Guilt anchored you, Ami taught. It kept you human. But it was no guide at all to making decisions, and it could get you or your friends killed if you let yourself feel it while executing those decisions.

"I can't remember what I'm supposed to want," Utakata said softly. "I think I must have killed a lot of people, but I can't remember why. I can't remember knowing why. I think that if you're going to kill people, you need a very good reason, and the only reason good enough is if they're trying to kill you. But isn't that just a circle? I wonder if that's why I left."

Jin nodded as if what Utakata was saying made sense.

"I don't know the answer," Jin said with a gentle smile, "but there's a girl who does. Until she gets back, why don't we look for it together?"

-o-​

"How'd it go, Dragon Kid?" Shinzō grinned over a glass of Kurohige's Revenge. "Got him eating out of your hand yet?"

"There's no need for that," Jin said coolly. "I believe he'll absorb the AMI philosophy in good time. He just needs a solid foundation to build on. Also, how much longer are you going to keep calling me that, Boss Tiger?"

"Touché," Shinzō smirked. "As for me, my esteemed target, whose name I'm not going to say in the middle of a bar, went down eventually, thank you for asking. Next time it's your turn, see if you can get her to crack a smile. Bottle of the good stuff on me if you pull it off. Maybe try the slithering snake next, get her into one of her aggressive stances?"

"Maybe. Though that one is getting a little stale. Also, the last time I used it, Mori Ryūgamine hit me with a hammer blow of a counter. My ego is still down there with the ancestors."

"Which is why we leave the senior Mori to Ami when she gets back. You're the one who gave her the spark for those contingencies in the first place."

That lightning-quick final meeting. Ideas, ripostes, and flickers of ice. Nothing to be overlooked; nothing to be forgotten. Sparkling eyes, mischievous grin. A hug that went on just that sliver of a second shorter than she knew he wanted.

The right-hand man and the left-hand man gave each other familiar smiles. Forever nothing less… and nothing more.
 
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Ooh, and here I thought that Utakata was definite Ren support once he recovered. I wonder how far Ami will be able to sway his loyalties towards the AMI, though either location is good to me as long as his support is against the anti-Leaf warhawks.
 
Now that its confirmed that Ami is the Sidhe incarnate let us walk tall yet carefully and ask her to politically nuke our political opponents with her personal brand of political youthfulness.
 
Now that its confirmed that Ami is the Sidhe incarnate let us walk tall yet carefully and ask her to politically nuke our political opponents with her personal brand of political youthfulness.
We should first determine how Mari thinks the votes will go before we do that. If her assistance there is unnecessary, we'd be better served to get Kurosawa socials training.
 
We should first determine how Mari thinks the votes will go before we do that. If her assistance there is unnecessary, we'd be better served to get Kurosawa socials training.
Incidentally, we could always have Mari intercept one of the people who are to vote on the way there. Genjutsu is pretty good at that.
 
It's ridiculous how Ami is everywhere and we still have no idea what's her endgame, that girl is made of smoke and mirrors.
She also has her own trusted minions, with a really strange relationship i would add.
 
@Velorien: Just for confirmation, that's today's update right? We shouldn't be waiting for another before we get back to planning?

:> You might have spoiled us a little with the two updates last weekend.
 
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