Voting for action plans is closed. However, Hazō is about to be posed a question so important that we've decided to give you special planning time for it ahead of the coming update.

Next update, Asuma is going to convene the EM Council and invite feedback on his decision to destroy Isan using Elemental Mastery. If Hazō has any arguments against doing so (or, indeed, arguments for), this will be his only chance to present them. Please vote in a plan for Hazō to follow during the meeting (instructions for what to do before it will not be accepted since he has no advance warning).
Clarification: do you mean that we need to vote in such a plan for the Sunday update?

Further clarification: at present, to the best of my knowledge, the EM Council consists of (at most) Hazo, Kei, Mari, Asuma, Shikamaru, and the ANBU who were party to the initial discussion.

Are we aware of anyone else who might be there? Will the same ANBU agents be present and/or involved in the discussion?
 
Interlude: Questionable Losses, Unknown Gains
Oooh, sounds great!
he recognised a familiar figure standing at the compound gates, studying the daily hustle and bustle of Gōketsu life with a logistician's analytical eye
YAGURA??? More seriously, should we be worried.
No, this individual would get bored of watching and start making conversation in five minutes, and have every Gōketsu secret known to its civilians in thirty.
Why would they inform every civilian of Gōketsu secre- oh, wait, I'm dumb
Hazō's sealing headache was still pulsing in the back of his head, so he really hoped she wasn't in the mood for hardcore verbal sparring
Wait. Ami?
Ami took several measured steps towards him, as if gauging distance. Then, before he knew it, he found himself swept into a tight hug.
One hit sure kill big sis hug technique.
an Akane hug, the unfair standard by which the hugs of the world were judged
Aka "cracked ribs." Cracked with LOVE.
it was a very fine hug, the kind one would hope for from a trained expert doing her best.
Readers: awwww, nice things, support and familial love
Velorien: by the way, did you think about the trauma?
Readers (crying): we are now
"Your behaviour," Ami explained, "closely resembles that of an ordinary person grieving for a lost loved one."
But we, dear Hazō, are extraordinary.
"To reframe, your behaviour does not match my model of someone aware that said loved one is merely a permeable dimensional barrier away, little different to my recent sojourn in Hot Springs save that she requires some labour in your part before she can make her return. It is not the behaviour of Gōketsu Hazō, so certain he was about to conquer death that it required two of Leaf's most brilliant women to convince him that some obstacles remained. I had hoped to return to find you annoyed that the need to rescue Akane as well complicates your timetable, not riven with pain that drives you to irrational behaviour and snap decisions with far-reaching consequences."
In certain terms, shit got real. In other terms, emotions and being personally affected are not that rational and we spent years growing into people who know of death as something final. And in fine, we don't know that we can save Akane before she's gone. She isn't remembered the way Jiraiya is.
It's something I'd wish on my worst enemy if I was more of a hands-off kind of girl.
Why I love Ami and your writing in a single sentence, tbh
Use it the way pain is meant to be used, at least outside the bedroom: as a signal from the spirits in your body that something is wrong and you need to take action now
One could argue that's also how it is meant to be used in the bedroom as well, and the mixing of the message or the partner being unable to take action despite "needing" to would be the point, but one would not really want to argue with Ami tbh, that sounds like an activity one would find less chance at a good result in than running into a wall. Outside the bedroom, that is.
Some relaxing Kagome-style spiced hot chocolate did wonders to relax both of them. Soon, Hazō and Ami were lounging on a sofa in the atrium as she regaled him with tales of hapless world leaders struggling to adapt to a new world order that fundamentally made no sense to anyone raised in the shinobi world (a narrative only a handful of people in the entire world were capable of telling) while he reciprocated with stories of his Conclave antics (a narrative only a handful of beings in the entirety of two worlds were capable of telling).
Outdone, mwahahaha
"Hazō," Asuma said with a smile, "you never fail to exceed expectations. Even knowing that, I have to admit I'm impressed."
Let's goooooooo!
It says something that you left him convinced that he was the inferior sealmaster.
Oh, wow. I had an omake in the works that didn't quite go this way, I'll have to rework the grumblemumble...
He doesn't mince his words. Manjiro plainly indicated that upon concluding the examination, you had convinced him that you understood sealing as a whole better than he did. I get the vague impression that some of his final questions were actually him probing you for advice on a new project, rather than intended parts of the exam, as he included them in the transcript but didn't comment on their implications.
Bwahahahaha
Yes, Hazō, I'm officially authorizing your promotion to special jōnin.
When momma hears about this...
The last sealmaster capable of making this died in the battle at Nagi Island,
What about Orochimaru? Wait, he did die in the battle at Nagi Island. Retracted.
"If you had any other cohort to compete with, you'd easily be the youngest to special jōnin among your peers. Unfortunately, you're competing with Uchiha Sasuke."
Sasuke of the SHARINGAINS. He's family. He's a bowling partner. We like him.
Asuma chuckled. "Just make sure they're big in the right direction, Hazō. I told Sasuke to spend more time training with Yuno, as I think they'd have a lot to teach each other. It's a shame that you don't have a peer or rival to push yourself against in the same way."

"Orochimaru is plausibly my peer in sealmastery."

"Yes, but he's Orochimaru."
I like when authority figures are competent and rational. Asuma has his buttons that we must not push, but he has a lucidity that few enjoy.
If you're as good as you say, acting genuinely impressed is practically an insult."

"Hmph. I was going to invite you to the party, but–"

"Hazō!" Ami exclaimed. "Special jōnin, that's amazing! I can't believe you cleared such a major hurdle at your young age. I'm sure you'll go on to do great things."
Dorks. 💜
Hazō sighed. "Ah, forget it. Of course you're invited. You'd probably just gatecrash it anyway in some completely incomprehensible way that drove me crazy as the host and still somehow made people like you more."

"See, you get me!" Ami beamed
Doooorks. 💜💜
Voting for action plans is closed.
[] Vote anyway. Democratic revolution comes through the urns and politeness!
If Hazō has any arguments against doing so (or, indeed, arguments for), this will be his only chance to present them.
Oh, that's heavy. Well, I'm just talking in the air right now, not making a plan, but I'm willing to participate in discussion before voting or drafting a plan.
Arguments against:
- that is genocide
- might have a self-defeating effect if any survives, escapes, recounts the tale
- might have a self-defeating effect if any survives, has a good guess, spills the beans looking for revenge
- might have a self-defeating effect if any just isn't there at the time, etc.
- they already said hello to the world, this might invite Akatsuki/AMITY scrutiny in the first place
- might invite Watcher scrutiny(?)
- we had another plan to replace EM. What of it?
- losing an ally, a good source of ancient lore, a jutsu (tai-, nin-, ken-, and fūin-) tradition, and an economic partner
(- secret, internal: might have a self-defeating effect if they leak post-mortem; will harm Akane so much)
Arguments for:
- trying to stop that ticking doomsday clock is something we have to do
- "the continent and the surrounding islands die" is the scenario we're trying to prevent. "Isan dies" is a possible solution. In both cases Isan dies, might be a sunk cost.
- to quote an important clan and family member, stinkers tried to kill us. Boom, squish!
- they may keep other dangers - dangerous knowledge of the Five and(/including) Jashin. Not as much as... Demon, if memory serves, though.
- they have master manipulators and are deeply xenophobic - they may distrust or be able to see through any of our soft solutions, in which case point blank annihilation is the only guaranteed solution. The question becomes "is EM sufficient" and probably the answer is "have five Shadow Clones cast it a few times in the non-immediate vicinity, there will be nothing and no one left"
 
Couldn't we just get Isan to join Leaf? Like sure, it might be difficult to get that to happen but if its doable then it beats killing them all. That and hack some "improvement" to EM that is flat out better and make it public library so they don't use EM in the future. Chances are if they haven't discovered the Nuke for generations they won't suddenly have their very few if any jounin level EM near the peak of their pyramid to unlock the possibility.
They chose to live on a mountain in the middle of nowhere for 400 years because they hated outsiders.

We cannot use force to compel them because of AMITY. We cannot tell them EM nuke is the reason because they will develop it for themselves.

They will never willingly choose to move into Leaf.
 
[X][Conclave] Pangolin Propaganda Opposed
  • Continue dinner with rats
  • Remorsefully say at the end that you regret not knowing that trade deals on the 7th Path are perpetual, you know to be more careful now.
  • Rats will probably ask what you mean.
  • Clarify that is why they consider Hazou to be an Oathbreaker, that the deal of trading gold for seals was monthly and that he ended it, he didn't know it was a 7th Path expectation that deals like that are perpetual unless stated otherwise. It is rude to cancel monthly trade deals on the Human Path without warning, but not considered dishonest or a breach of an oath unless explicitly agreed to be perpetual.
  • Ask them where they heard about any other sort of deal with the Pangolins - have the Pangolins been spreading a different story?
  • Unless this is a terrible error that the rest of the 7th Path considers to be obvious and the core of Oathbreaking, relay this information to the other delegates in the guise of making/discussing trade deals and explaining how you've learned the need to specify deals are not indefinite, the error with the Pangolins in this way has tarred your reputation because you didn't understand that nuance of 7th Path etiquette but you have learned to be careful.
  • If the Pangolins have been spreading a false story about the deal, lean on Kei/Snowflake to best counter it as the Pangolin Summoner, follow their lead. She was the only one actually present for the deal besides for Pantsaa.
I probably won't be on here enough to edit this regularly, so feel free to take liberally from this.
Much of this plan is no longer viable given the clarifications the QMs have made and what we've reminded ourselves of from reading through the chapters in question.

@ContextBot, @Korporati, would you consider de-voting? I expect that this would be pretty disastrous if we tried it as it's based on things which simply aren't true.
 
"How about 'this will get everyone from akatsuki, to all the other villages, to Kei-and-thus-Ami after your blood'?"
That's kind of the problem, imo. We've already covered this topic before, so Asuma definitely knows the consequences, but he's still choosing to go forward with it. If we want to change his mind at this stage, we need to either present new arguments (like what The Bomb posted a little earlier) or find a flaw in his reasoning.

It seems plausible to me that Asuma's come up with a solid cover story to deflect international attention away from the assumption that, because the first EM was within Fire, a repeat performance would suggest a Leaf Superweapon. If that is the case, then Asuma spends quite little (comparatively speaking) as the price for dramatically reducing odds of Armageddon. I think this is one of the scenarios we should address in our plan, because if Asuma's cover story isn't airtight we might be able to defuse it and render 'Nuke Isan' again prohibitively expensive.
 
HAZŌ: If you use the EM nuke now, you can't use it on the dragons without Akatsuki razing Leaf for violating AMITY.


Valid point brought up by bomb
 
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I'll be honest...A-day is a bust, and we all know it's a bust, even Ami, she's just going on autopilot because she has no other choice and she's arrogant enough to think she can make it work.
She can't.
We need:
-To find out if Nagato will pull out another ritual
-If the Akatsuki is working on the rift
-If we can position ourselves socially to save Akane
Then find a plan that lets us survive Nagato coming back, and play for the long term by surpassing Nagato+Akatsuki in power
The idea of an head-on clash with the Akatsuki is simply ridiculous, and it always was.

TL;DR: Go to them, find if they are working on the seal, then negotiate to save Akane and Jiraiya, then slowly grow stronger than them with FOOM + Hazou's Sealing + Ami and Mari bringing more allies to our cause than them.
Change the plan if Ami thinks they are going to kill us before or after the completion of necromancy.
 
HAZŌ: If you use the EM nuke now, you can't use it on the dragons without Akatsuki razing Leaf for violating AMITY.


Valid point brought up by bomb
This doesn't necessarily follow. No Akatsuki members or their Summon Clans have shown any interest in the Conclave or the Dragons. It follows that it would take a concerted effort to bring them along.

So now we're talking about them possibly hearing about the strange weather during a battle to death with otherworldly Dragons, which is par for the course.

Remember that they'll be hearing hearsay from potentially thousands of miles away. That's some serious distance.

If Akatsuki aren't present at the battle there's no reason to think they'd ever hear about EM. Especially if efforts were made to disguise the technique. Like Kumokogo saying she was the one doing it.

Now if they are present. That's a whole other story. We did ask Asuma to invite them. Remains to be seen if he did, and if they were in favor of the idea.
 
Next update, Asuma is going to convene the EM Council and invite feedback on his decision to destroy Isan using Elemental Mastery. If Hazō has any arguments against doing so (or, indeed, arguments for), this will be his only chance to present them. Please vote in a plan for Hazō to follow during the meeting (instructions for what to do before it will not be accepted since he has no advance warning).

Has the EM Council expanded to include anyone else besides Kei, Snowflake, Mari, Shikamaru, those no fire element ANBU agents, Hazou, and Asuma?

Knowing who we need to make our arguments for might help us.

I have to admit I am a bit intrigued by the idea of Lord Hagaromo being present to give his religious take on smiting the EM waiving heretics.
 
We need an social spec to convince nagato to have the Akatsuki to stand down while having noob good enough at med stuff to perform plastic cirurgy on nagato so pain born again is not an issue.
We will need to some form of propulsion, the gliders may be fine if we are able to make an ascend trough.
 
I'll be honest...A-day is a bust, and we all know it's a bust, even Ami, she's just going on autopilot because she has no other choice and she's arrogant enough to think she can make it work.
She can't.
We need:
-To find out if Nagato will pull out another ritual
-If the Akatsuki is working on the rift
-If we can position ourselves socially to save Akane
Then find a plan that lets us survive Nagato coming back, and play for the long term by surpassing Nagato+Akatsuki in power
The idea of an head-on clash with the Akatsuki is simply ridiculous, and it always was.

TL;DR: Go to them, find if they are working on the seal, then negotiate to save Akane and Jiraiya, then slowly grow stronger than them with FOOM + Hazou's Sealing + Ami and Mari bringing more allies to our cause than them.
Change the plan if Ami thinks they are going to kill us before or after the completion of necromancy.
I don't mean this as a quip or a jab, but please, speak for yourself. We've had this debate a number of times now and there has been no consensus formed about which paths are viable/unviable. You, and some others, strongly believe that A-day is a bust. Others, including me, do not. I do not believe you do this out of malice but I request you keep the current variety of opinions in mind instead of speaking as if your opinions are already the consensus.
 
Also, to answer Ami: We've successfully distracted Orochimaru, and, if she can work out a way to get word of 3D sealing to Sasori, that's that problem solved, too.
 
Clarification: do you mean that we need to vote in such a plan for the Sunday update?
Yes.

Further clarification: at present, to the best of my knowledge, the EM Council consists of (at most) Hazo, Kei, Mari, Asuma, Shikamaru, and the ANBU who were party to the initial discussion.
Are we aware of anyone else who might be there? Will the same ANBU agents be present and/or involved in the discussion?

Everyone always forgets poor Snowflake, who isn't formally a member of the Council but has all the necessary qualifications.

Hazō is unaware of who will be in attendance. For OPSEC reasons, the messenger summoning him doesn't even know it's EM-related.
 
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Everyone always forgets poor Snowflake, who isn't formally a member of the Council but has all the necessary qualifications.
While true that she has the necessary qualifications, as she is now acknowledged as a Leaf civilian and not simply Kei's technique, she does not default to the same levels of security classification as Kei.

Which means she is a saboteur and committing treason.
 
I mean...A-day's so bad it's in the running for the worst plan we've ever thought of or been a part of. It's that bad.
 
While true that she has the necessary qualifications, as she is now acknowledged as a Leaf civilian and not simply Kei's technique, she does not default to the same levels of security classification as Kei.

Which means she is a saboteur and committing treason.
Fortunately, Snowflake is executed for this nightly, so everything's fine there.
 
[X] Meeting Plan: No Genocide
  • Exterminating a city because someone in there might do something is a slippery slope.
    • If the precedence is established, other villages (including Leaf) may end up on the chopping block.
  • Isan are allies of Leaf and there are unique advantages that would be lost.
    • Sealing traditions based directly on the Sage's work.
    • Lore on the Paths that has been lost to most.
    • Unique jutsu.
  • If anyone found out that Leaf exterminated Isan, there would likely be a coalition force formed against us.
    • Akatsuki summoners have been asked to help in the Dragonwar. Asuma wouldn't be able to use EM there without linking the two events.
    • If any Isanese survive, they might be able to figure out what jutsu it was, and Leaf has an exclusivity agreement with them.
    • The fact that EM was used in Fire would connect the two events, pointing towards Leaf as the responsible party.
  • Isan has been stable for hundreds of years, much longer than the village system has been around.
    • They are a stable, non-warmongering nation.
    • Civilization is heading towards collapse. Eradicating another city only exacerbates the problem.
    • Isan is isolationist by choice. Other nations will find it difficult to trade with them, especially after their alliance with Leaf and exclusivity contracts.
  • The replacement EM jutsu has already been made.
    • Have there been any developments that make that plan unworkable?
    • Would allow us to eliminate the danger without weakening Leaf's alliances.
 
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Can someone please recap me on A-Day and why it sucks?
The short of it is that Ami has "perfectly reasonable" explanations for why reviving Jirayia is going to be a Bad Thing and that our only real way forward is to somehow find Pain in Naraka, convince him to be a Good Guy and that his interests align with ours, and then use his power in the Human Path to avoid being annihilated by the rest of the world.
 
The short of it is that Ami has "perfectly reasonable" explanations for why reviving Jirayia is going to be a Bad Thing and that our only real way forward is to somehow find Pain in Naraka, convince him to be a Good Guy and that his interests align with ours, and then use his power in the Human Path to avoid being annihilated by the rest of the world.

Tbf to Ami, Nagato's interests *do* seem to align with ours from the thirty seconds he was on-screen.
 
Tbf to Ami, Nagato's interests *do* seem to align with ours from the thirty seconds he was on-screen.
Oh I don't think the plan is unworkable. It's the whole "somehow find Pain" bit that makes it a bit harder. We have Jirayia and Akane's blood to use with a seal array or Jashin powers, but Pain? We would have to somehow get a hold of his body, or see if anyone in the Akatsuki has a sample.
 
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