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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Shrooms said:
Even if he were healed I do not think we should be infusing any 3D seals until we've done more research into non-GS 3D seals. For that matter, we can't actually infuse one yet anyways, Hazou can't leave his chakra in the ground with ES yet. Presumably that's a bonus at a higher AB.

Theorycrafting and discussing extremely simple seals like Party Trick in 3D with other Sealmasters first, and then constructing and examining basic configurations first shouldn't cause any Sealing failures and would be my preferred first step before we actually try infusing one.
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That was more or less what I had in mind for the inital experimentation. I only phrased the experimental portion as I did because all of our ideas about 3D sealing actually come from one particular example (Hey now that I think about it, isn't that also how all of Isan's sealcrafting tradition emerged? Might be worth looking into how they went about it and what effect their low sample size had on their overall sealing tradition.), but I can see how that could be misconstrued. I'll word it better when we are healed and I post the actual plan.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
[X] Yuno's Birthday
[X] Action Plan: Being Useful, and Being Kind
Paperclipped said:
  • Mari can't be deployed for at least a week; she was strongly affected by Orochimaru's psychic attack.
  • Explain the situation in as much detail as he desires.
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I recommend summarizing this to decrease the chance Asuma will want to pry further and find out about the Mari-Kei split; we don't want this getting out as much as possible.
Paperclipped said:
Make more strategies and tactics like the assault on the fortress?
  • If so, access to recovered intelligence would help.
  • Hazou can make more "creative" plans with more information access, so there's better odds that one of them is good.
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eaglejarl said:
"Is there anything you would like me to think about while we're away, Lord Hokage? You know, like 'turn it upside down' problems?"

Jiraiya glared. "Don't get a fat head, kid. One bright idea doesn't make you the only smart person in the world. We've got plenty of sealmasters here in Leaf, an entire clan of supergeniuses, and I've been known to have an idea or two myself."

"Yes, Lord Hokage!" Hazō said, a nervous bead of sweat trickling down from his hairline.
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Paperclipped said:
Produce lots of valuable seals with Clan Gouketsu?
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We...could be doing this anyway? Maybe we could make and 'donate' a bunch of seals for the war effort as part of the conversation?
Paperclipped said:
Arrange a birthday gift for Akane.
  • Have clan members paint designs on flowerpots for her garden, possibly of things that remind them of her.
  • Follow strict OPSEC.
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I demand to bring Sachi and Rin to Akane's birthday party.
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien
Does Leaf have an official Ambassador to Sand and/or Mist?
Broadly speaking, are ambassadors able to act as actual representatives of Leaf or are they just glorified messengers?

Acquiring More Information
  • Request permission from Asuma to look for DRAGONWAR-related information in Sand
    • Having him pressure the Kazekage into assisting would be enormously helpful.
    • Probe Sand Sealmasters for information on 3D Sealing and other esoteric sealing disiplines
    • Probe loremasters (including at least one from the Yodomi) for information on:
      • The Sage and his companions
      • The Dragons and other powerful entities sealed by the Sage
  • Have Noburi ask the Toads about Dragons and the Sage's companions
  • Have Kagome and Kei investigate how Isan developed an entire sealing tradition from studying a single seal.
    • Do you have any insights how we should reverse-engineer 3D sealing from just the Great Seal?
    • Are there any major weaknesses in Isanese sealing that come from this? How might we avoid similar problems with our 3D sealing?
  • Ask Isolde how he originally defeated the Dragons

  • Probe Mist Sealmasters and loremasters
  • With Asuma's permission, talk to Aunt Ren and a Kurosawa Sealmaster about the Great Seal and the Dragons.
    • Explain how the Iron Nerve recorded details about the z-dimension.
    • Ask about Iron Nerve (worth a shot)
      • Is everything that gets recorded important?
      • How does it know what to record?
      • How can it record aspects about the Great Seal that I never saw?
      • Is there anything else I should know that would help me prevent the imminent destruction of Seventh and then Human Path?
Researching 3D Sealing
  • Research how the build material affects 3D seals
    • Try to identify the Great Seal's material.
      • Consult with expert metallurgists and geologists
    • Research what materials are capable of conducting chakra
      • Ask Asuma for a full briefing on what the Tower knows about chakra metal
    • Try making basic 2D seals with a chakra conductor that is not ink-based.
      • Investigate whether this has been done before
      • Attempt to recreate a 2D seal using earthshaping. Experiment with the shape of the "channel" (cylindrical, flat plane, etc.).
  • Research how adding a third dimension affects sealing
    • After theorizing from knowledge of 2D seals, try making theory from working backwards from the Great Seal
      • Draw on insights from Leaf Sealmasters and Iron Nerve
      • Use Isanese insights
    • Use Earthshaping to try creating extremely basic 3D seals
    • Focus experimentation on learning about 3D Sealing itself (leave investigating the mechanics of the Great Seal for later)
 
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_The_Bomb said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien

Does Leaf have an official Ambassador to Sand and/or Mist?

Broadly speaking, are ambassadors able to act as actual representatives of Leaf or are they just glorified messengers?
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It does not. Strictly speaking, the ambassador position was created as an excuse for Hana to be with Hazō without committing treason, and then extended as a way of getting Ami out of Ren's hair. There are no other ambassadors in the world as far as Hazō knows, because the idea of stationing a ranking ninja in another village to steal or spill secrets is objectively ridiculous. Realistically, Ami probably wouldn't be here if the Mizukage didn't find her so frustrating and the Hokage didn't find her so useful.

While Ami has mentioned that she's been helping Asuma with alliance paperwork as his Mist affairs consultant, HDK what the replacement ambassador does with his time. He certainly did not have the authority to promise Mist's help in the war.
 
_The_Bomb said:
First, I think we should be incredibly leery about how we talk about the Orochimaru situation. It'd probably be best not to give too many details. Tsunade herself warned us that we walked a very thing line to treason by threatening her in the way we did. Even if the law is techincally on our side, Asuma will definitely be happier if we don't bring it up with him. As long as we don't bring it up, he won't have to address it and it can be overlooked.
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_The_Bomb said:
I reccomend removing the line "Explain the situation in as much detail as he desires" from your plan. If he brings it up, he brings it up and there's nothing we can do about it. Why prompt him to do so?
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faflec said:
I recommend summarizing this to decrease the chance Asuma will want to pry further and find out about the Mari-Kei split; we don't want this getting out as much as possible.
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This is true, good feedback. Updated to "Explain if requested, don't mention Shikamaru's ultimatum or Mari-Kei split."


_The_Bomb said:
Next, you use some pretty odd wording for your segment on the Arachnid summoner. Asuma told Kei directly that it's going to go to Kagome, so there's no need for us to play coy with who the summoner is going to be.

Additionally, it might not be smart to try and convince him to let us handle Kagome's training. Summoning Training is a full-time commitment that lasts for three to six months and will completely kill Hazō's ability to do much of anything in that time. The QMs literally designed it so that becoming a summoner has "a massive oppurtunity cost." Why would we want to have that for both Kagome and Hazō. Sure, we should be willing to help if Asuma requests it, but trying to convince him we're the person for the job isn't a good idea. I think I speak for all of us when I say that there's plenty of more intresting things for Hazō to be doing once his consequences heal in a few weeks.
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Shrooms said:
@Paperclipped I would actually recommend Noburi teach Kagome because he's not going to be deployed for a long time (Summoner Army duties, which are infrequent). Hazou on the other hand needs to be free to do Great Seal stuff and pumping out seals since Kagome can't do it right now.
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The premise of the plan is "Be Useful". In this case, that's assuming that Asuma knows better than we do how we can be used. While our selfish incentive will be to not get roped into 3-6 months of Summoning Training, if doing so helps the village, then we should probably do so. If our injury situation changes, I assume that it's fine if the Summoning teacher changes mid-teaching.

On the other hand, if Hazou is most useful scribing seals and making crazy plans, then Asuma will probably tell us that. He already said that he values our ability to come up with good ideas:
eaglejarl said:
"You have a solid record for creative innovation. Using Multiple Earth Wall as an offensive combat jutsu. Providing the original concept that allowed Kagome to produce the skywalker seal. Baiting out Zabuza in order to give Jiraiya an opportunity to act. The idea of creating a market for adoption slots.

"Based on your past history, I think it would be very useful for you to have Shadow Clones who can take care of mundane details so that you have time to focus on more of these large-scale ideas.
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So if he indeed values that more, then he'll do that. Trying to be useful to other people is just a good way to build social and political goodwill, and given that we legitimately want to be useful and help Leaf win the war, there's no harm in leaving it up to Asuma to decide (as he has the best in-character information).

About Noburi specifically, we don't know how busy he is. Perhaps we can just mention that Hazou or Noburi are good candidates for doing the training?


_The_Bomb said:
EDIT: Oh right, I totally forgot something. Could you please add these two lines to your offscreen section?
  • Have Mari train new Gōketsu in OPSEC
  • Implement a rudimentary verbal code for the Gōketsu to use for convaying information subtly during an emergency.
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Wordcount is very limited in the plan as it is and this doesn't seem urgent. Can we punt it?


faflec said:
We...could be doing this anyway? Maybe we could make and 'donate' a bunch of seals for the war effort as part of the conversation?
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Yep, added.


faflec said:
I demand to bring Sachi and Rin to Akane's birthday party.
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I don't even know who these are.


Updates: (including general wordcount optimization)
Paperclipped said:
[X] Action Plan: Being Useful, and Being Kind
Word Count: 286
  • Check plan with Mari.
  • Meet with Asuma:
    • Scribe and deliver skytowers and skywalkers.
    • Orochimaru situation is hopefully resolved.
      • Orochimaru psychically attacked Mari and she shouldn't be deployed for a week.
      • Explain if requested, don't mention Shikamaru's ultimatum or Mari-Kei split.
    • How can Hazou be most useful in the war?
      • Make more strategies and tactics like Zoo Rush?
        • If so, access to recovered intelligence would help.
        • Hazou can make more "creative" plans with more information access, so there's better odds that one of them is good.
      • Train the candidate for the Arachnid Summoner?
        • Hazou, injured, is the least useful Leaf Summoner and knows the Arachnids personally
        • Home-front Noburi could as well.
      • Coordinate Gouketsu for seal production?
    • If Mist allies with us, a home-front Wakahisa could chakra-fill a summoner, then Noburi can retrieve that chakra from the Seventh Path and distribute it to summoners anywhere in the EN.
      • Allows a summoner to have all their summons out at once and still fight at full capacity.
      • Works with Noburi and Wakahisa flipped.
      • OPSEC concerns?
  • Spend some time with Ino and Akane:
    • See how they're doing, especially with the war.
    • Be supportive, but also let yourself be supported.
  • Attend Kei and Tenten's Commitment Ceremony:
    • Ask the Arachnids and Dogs if they know any especially pointy objects for a gift.
  • (offscreen) misc:
    • Arrange a birthday gift for Akane.
      • Have clan members paint designs on flowerpots for her garden, possibly of things that remind them of her.
      • Follow strict OPSEC.
    • Ask Cannai to send a diplomat to Hornet and Hare to ask if they have a Scroll.
      • Hazou would also like to personally thank the Hornets for their sacrifices.
    • Kei + Noburi: Get to know Leopard and Rat representatives. Goal: information on scroll.
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Paperclipped said:
I don't even know who these are.
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faflec said:
*shrugs* I don't mind, though it kinda ruins the surprise
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As a point of order, I'm not sure that Hazo knows about her childhood friends. He'd likely have to do some detective work to try to produce them, at any rate.

Asking Akane's parents and Sakura/Haru for guest list suggestions might be smart. We could specifically ask Akane's parents if there's anyone from her past/childhood she might want to see.

As they've had the 'immigrant' experience, they're probably also well-suited to evaluate whether it would be painful for either the friends ('you live in such opulence! we now need to return to our miserable village') or Akane ('I live in such opulence! And I can't bring you or your families into Leaf, so you need to return to your miserable village') for them to be there.

@eaglejarl and @Velorien: is Hazo aware of a jutsu or chakra-manipulation technique which would enable someone to survive a long fall, given that they had sufficient warning? (i.e., it would be safe for a chuunin to throw themselves off of Hokage Rock because they can feather fall the last few feet.) Evidence for the existence of this technique is that Hazo the recently-minted genin was comfortable repeatedly failing to make the jump from a ledge to the Mizukage's tower.

The reason for asking is that airdropping Summons would be a great way to apply Zoo Rush to more versatile situations. You either have Condors do bombing runs or get a squad of skywalking genin who are carrying large baskets with as many Summons as will fit which they drop when they're over their targets. Bam, boom, you have a dozen rapidly-descending jonin who have some degree of midair maneuverability.
 
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FaintlySorcerous said:
@eaglejarl and @Velorien: is Hazo aware of a jutsu or chakra-manipulation technique which would enable someone to survive a long fall, given that they had sufficient warning? (i.e., it would be safe for a chuunin to throw themselves off of Hokage Rock because they can feather fall the last few feet.) Evidence for the existence of this technique is that Hazo the recently-minted genin was comfortable repeatedly failing to make the jump from a ledge to the Mizukage's tower.
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Broader worldbuilding issues aside, I feel you are overlooking the more obvious point that if Hazō had known a feather fall ninjutsu as a recently-minted genin, he would still know it now.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
As they've had the 'immigrant' experience, they're probably also well-suited to evaluate whether it would be painful for either the friends ('you live in such opulence! we now need to return to our miserable village') or Akane ('I live in such opulence! And I can't bring you or your families into Leaf, so you need to return to your miserable village') for them to be there.
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I was...thinking more about them coming to stay? I mean, they're essentially adults by this point, right?
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
@eaglejarl and @Velorien: is Hazo aware of a jutsu or chakra-manipulation technique which would enable someone to survive a long fall, given that they had sufficient warning? (i.e., it would be safe for a chuunin to throw themselves off of Hokage Rock because they can feather fall the last few feet.) Evidence for the existence of this technique is that Hazo the recently-minted genin was comfortable repeatedly failing to make the jump from a ledge to the Mizukage's tower.
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He is not. In a world of tree (and thus cliff) walking, the opportunity cost of inventing/learning a ninjutsu which you will almost certainly never need and which will kill you if it fails is too high. Cloud might have it, but it's unlikely that Leaf or Mist do.
 
[X] Action Plan: Being Useful, and Being Kind

[Χ] Have Hazou-pilot actually draw the chart and give a copy to Keiko.

Meme vote........so funny.......can't......resist........

eaglejarl said:
So the point is that you send Noburi (or some Wakahisa) into the field with the group. Sounds very inefficient, since Noburi's reserves can easily grow to be larger than any non-Wakahisa's. Still, I suppose it works and I see the advantage. Whoever is playing chakra mule is definitely going to be peeing clear as glass, that's for sure.
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It's about the same as having the non-Wakahisa in the field, since Noburi is about 2.5 Asuma worth and he pays 45 cp for a minimum summon to the Seventh Path. If Asuma is getting refilled he has to pay 15 CP per trip for ~2.5 trips to match 1 Noburi.

Noburi is empty, he returns to the 7P
He drains Asuma, Asuma unsummons
Asuma is filled by Wakahisa2, Asuma Reverse Summons
He drains Asuma, Asuma unsummons
Asuma is filled by Wakahisa2, Asuma Reverse Summons
He drains Asuma, Asuma is half-full, Noburi unsummons
Noburi empties himself
Noburi is empty, he returns to the 7P
..... and so on

@Noumero @Lord Marshal?) worked out the chakra costs, and we can get about 3000 CP of Summon fielded per Summoner (depends of CR of Summoner) before upkeep starts to become the limiting factor (as we can't send the Summons as a single wave b/c it takes too long to drain and replace chakra). With the Perfect Hydration jutsu, this won't kill Asuma via water poisoning. But he's going to have to make himself repeatedly vomit. Yikes

Everyone else can top up via Shadow Clone rebalancing, to avoid discomfort from excessive water drinking before battle.

EDIT: Clarified and changed things. Noumero is the one who created the spreadsheet. Thanks again for their hard work.
 
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Velorien said:
It does not. Strictly speaking, the ambassador position was created as an excuse for Hana to be with Hazō without committing treason, and then extended as a way of getting Ami out of Ren's hair. There are no other ambassadors in the world as far as Hazō knows, because the idea of stationing a ranking ninja in another village to steal or spill secrets is objectively ridiculous. Realistically, Ami probably wouldn't be here if the Mizukage didn't find her so frustrating and the Hokage didn't find her so useful.

While Ami has mentioned that she's been helping Asuma with alliance paperwork as his Mist affairs consultant, HDK what the replacement ambassador does with his time. He certainly did not have the authority to promise Mist's help in the war.
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I wonder if we should try using civilians as ambassadors. Not as useful as ninja, perhaps, but something that would be more likely to be accepted and would hopefully increase communications between villages.
 
Sentient Tree said:
I wonder if we should try using civilians as ambassadors. Not as useful as ninja, perhaps, but something that would be more likely to be accepted and would hopefully increase communications between villages.
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Civilians are looked down upon because they aren't military assets. You'd need to change the cultural underpinnings of the entire EN to make them viable ambassadors instead of irrelevant nobodies.
 
Finally a meme-vote I can get behind.
[x] Have Hazou-pilot actually draw the chart and give a copy to Keiko.
 
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