Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Potato land
The general idea is to make it explicit that Hazou should use this as an opportunity to learn from someone better. The preceding analysis gives context to this. I guess we could specify what it is exactly that he should focus on, if we have the wordcount. The most useful of Ami's lessons, I think, have to do with controlling a person's attention and mental balance by providing specific stimuli.
I really just want Hazou to start looking at social interactions, things being said and done, in terms of technique and intent. To turn his very potent analytical mind on them, and start developing a set of mental tools to engage with them on a deeper level. Not exactly sure how to phrase this for the plan.
I'm not saying that we should try to verify it. This whole thread of fatalism and disillusionment with the system is one of the few points where Ami seems genuine. It could still be fake, though. The point here is, that it being true would imply certain verifiable facts - that we can attempt to verify, if we need to.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Fair enough. I'll try my hand at it.
I'll add "Might be verifiable" on that section of mine.
Don't forget to vote, folks! Polls close in 17 hours.
- Location
- Italy
I would like to add that Keiko is probably one of the reason Ami went out of her way to embarrass Hazou so much in this meeting, but she still did so indirectly at first(the gift, the test and so on) instead of actually confronting him.
It would also note in our the analysis to the rest of the clan, that Ami behavior was strange: she "played" all the time, even when it's wasn't in her interest to do so.
It's a strange mix of being upfront about the her manipulation and at the same time still trying to manipulate and fish for information constantly, even when it would be more constructive to simply ask, or fake it and trying to not manipulate Hazou.
It's like she's trying two different approach at once...or she simply cannot stop.
Her words about honesty explicitly shows a mindset that fundamentally that always "Play" and cannot stop "playing" and that is something that at least Keiko should know.
Because it's her sister, and i think she would like to note if her sister shows more psychological problems that her
I would add.
"Organize a meeting with Ren as Hazou Kurosawa", the Tea with Ren in short.
Because this political intrigue is cool, but we should give a bit of closure to Hazou on the Kurosawa side.
Let's give Hazou a bit of time where he is actually addressing his issues, instead of the issues of the world or the clan.
I'm confident Ren will find the time for Hazou, even if she need to kick a Kage out of the door to do so.
This would her change to mend a relationship that she broke a long time ago and hurt her for so long...and we are giving the possibility of maybe saving something from the ashes.
And let's talk about it with Noburi and Keiko,family helps each other
In this way, we can actually ask about the Elders that gave the decided to banish our mother, that it's an important part to do this:
Quoted this for emphasis.
So much this.
If i have time i'll try to analyze Ami meeting too, don't know how helpful it will be, but maybe there will be something worth sharing
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
This sounds very suspiciously like 'I want to defect back to Mist'. At least, that's how I think it'd look to anyone who hears about it that way.
We aren't Kurosawa anymore, arguably we never even were. We're Goketsu now, and we have to keep calling ourselves that because Kurosawa is Mist and Goketsu is Leaf and we're already traitor scum in most people's eyes.
- Location
- Italy
We aren't literally saying "I'm Hazou Kurosawa", that was a way to explain my point to the rest of the thread..
The point would be.
"I want to talk about my aunt about why she exiled my mother and father and did fucking nothing to help us".
Hazou father could have survived if wasn't a clanless ninja, but part of the family.
Hazou mother wouldn't have been eaten alive by sadness and guilt while trying her utmost to let Hazou have a decent life.
Hazou went gambling to help mother when was a child, because he refused to see her like that.
How much suffering Hana,Hazou and Shinji(?) went through because no one grow a fucking spine and helped them?
And why?
Bigotry?A rational calculum? What made his own father so bad that they treated her mother like dirt and exiled her.
Why Ren, her own sister, did fucking nothing and let her happen? With what courage she tried to take her sister the last thing she had once Hazou was born?
Hazou wants answer, Hazou deserve answer, so let's find these answer, even if we need to punch those out of the Ren mouth with Taijutsu!..I'm NOT suggesting fighting Ren,it's just a figure of speech
This is also a way for Jiraya to do something for us, and help us framing it in a good way to not fall in the problem you just mentioned.
Behaving like a father for once will good for him too.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Clearly, after getting a Gai-style beatdown in social combat, we finally take a few steps down, to talk with more equal opponents.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
It doesn't seem like meeting with Ren would solve anything, we can't talk as "Kurosawa" either because
1) we're not part of that clan or Mist anymore
2) It makes Jiraiya look bad, especially since his claim to the hat still isn't stable yet.
Hazo doesn't really know Ren on a personal level and she's far more likely to just steer the conversation to what she wants.
Look I don't personally think there's any closure to be had or needed for Hazo, but if people care that much we could just set up a meeting with Hazo's mom. Hana was the talented heir apparent of the family, she's supposed to be pretty good at clan stuff considering she would have lead it as the head. She would know any extra details to the situation that she might have held off telling her son because he was either too young or simply had no reason to hear about it. Plus we can actually trust her to not try to manipulate us as we talk, which would be refeshing.
1) we're not part of that clan or Mist anymore
2) It makes Jiraiya look bad, especially since his claim to the hat still isn't stable yet.
Hazo doesn't really know Ren on a personal level and she's far more likely to just steer the conversation to what she wants.
Look I don't personally think there's any closure to be had or needed for Hazo, but if people care that much we could just set up a meeting with Hazo's mom. Hana was the talented heir apparent of the family, she's supposed to be pretty good at clan stuff considering she would have lead it as the head. She would know any extra details to the situation that she might have held off telling her son because he was either too young or simply had no reason to hear about it. Plus we can actually trust her to not try to manipulate us as we talk, which would be refeshing.
- Location
- Italy
1)It make sense IC, that Hazou would want some answers.
2)It would make a fun situation and would provide good storytelling
3)It would help Hazou make sense of suffering of his childhood and her mother suffering, resulting, or at least finally accepting and trying to resolve, one of the bad part of his childhood that he just accepted and tried to put in a corner of his mind, because there was nothing he could do.
4)It would information IC to talk with the Kurasawa Elder, giving us even more interesting storytelling
5)It seems like a fun and safe thing to do.
Not if we clarify that won't take that shit.
Ren clearly wants to reconcile with Hana, she would just cast it all out for what? Trying to pry OPSEC with Hazou(that will almost surely fail) and kiss goodbye to any hope to a decent relationship with her sister or Hazou?
She's not an idiot, i expect her to understand that if she tries it, we'll walk out of there and the last bridge she has to repair that relationship(as feeble as such hope is) would be gone forever.
With Jiraya to coaching in not fucking OPSEC up and the possibility of walking out of here the second she tries it...what can she do?
Like Ami said, we are not playing the same game.
She tries changing the rules, she just walk out and let her deal with the fallout of her actions.
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- Location
- Italy
I...really don't see what she can do?
Social stats aren't magic, especially when you can just walk away.
There is the misunderstanding that we are talking to her.
We are not.
She is not allowed to ask question.
She is not allowed to do anything, Hazou sure as hell would be in mood for any game.
She just need to answer our question and nothing else.
She doesn't like the terms of our meeting? Well, hope she likes burning the last,miraculous chance Hazou gave her.
It wouldn't be a discussion, it would Hazou, requesting answer and an explanaiton, and nothing else, because that is already more than a saint would give.
But if the thread think it's so much of a danger...we can bring Hana with us.
Double the revenge, better for us.
EDIT: One way or another, Hazou would have his answer.
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- Location
- Yes.
Why are you under the impression that she would not be allowed to do anything? Ren may want to reconcile with Hana, but that didn't stop her from fingering us as the Cold Stone Killers way back when. Her priorities are to support her clan, Mist, and then us. Allowing this uppity Genin-Chunin brat to dictate the terms of a meeting would fuck her over so fucking hard.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Poor, poor Hazou.
He barely left a harrowing "date" with an insane genius that friendzoned him after a marriage proposal, he's on a straight track to dropping a high-grade cognitohazard on Miss Fragile, only to promptly speak tothe manager Kage-tier diplomancer.
He barely left a harrowing "date" with an insane genius that friendzoned him after a marriage proposal, he's on a straight track to dropping a high-grade cognitohazard on Miss Fragile, only to promptly speak to
- Location
- Yes.
[X] Action Plan: Getting it out the door
Also, I'm pretty sure the whole "Hana is a diplomat to Leaf" is a farce generated to convince Hana to 'return' to the Kurosawa and thus give Ren points due to her relation to us. Edit: Meaning that anybody going there is basically going to a dead-end for their career, and they probably wouldn't want to do that.
I'm kinda-sorta not in favor of this; FMPOV Hana pretty much hates her clan now given the way they treated her, and while she certainly wouldn't put up a huge fuss about it I don't see her enjoying having to look over/train a member of the clan that kicked her out and then spend inordinate amount of resources to fuck her over after that.
Also, I'm pretty sure the whole "Hana is a diplomat to Leaf" is a farce generated to convince Hana to 'return' to the Kurosawa and thus give Ren points due to her relation to us. Edit: Meaning that anybody going there is basically going to a dead-end for their career, and they probably wouldn't want to do that.
I feel this should be more clear: I'm assuming you mean that we are to help fund, supply, and/or provide nonmaterial support like contacts businesses, but at first glance I thought you meant that the Goketsu would be the ones running the business. Which would have a lot of issues.
Don't forget to have shit prepared for the inevitable Akatsuki invasion!
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- Location
- Potato land
If her nihilistic streak isn't a pose, it would explain a lot of her behaviour. We identified some of it as reckless, and interpreted that as desperation. In this most recent update, she claims she basically did it for the hell of it. That makes a certain amount of twisted sense. If you're an exceptionally smart person in a fucked up world, smart enough to know you can't really change anything, what do you do with that knowledge? Ami, seemingly, has simply chosen to distance herself from it all and treat it as a game. A fine enough defense mechanism. Her only real connection to the rest of humanity is Keiko, which is why the games stop whenever she is involved.
You know, I occasionally joke about her being a member of Akatsuki, but really, she's their ideal recruit. An isolated prodigy with nothing but disdain for the social structures they inhabit. She'd sign up instantly, tell herself it's just another great game, but in reality, hoping to let go of her inhibitions and simply destroy what she's come to hate.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Remember, we don't need Hana as an ambassador to 'have her back' anymore. When the alliance goes through it should be possible to meet up with her when time permits, and while we won't be living together like mother and son again... well, that wasn't on the table back when she was ambassador.
I also kind of suspect Jiraiya strongly wants Hana to never see Mari again for the rest of either of their lives, which kind of puts the brakes on Hana regaining her ambassador slot. Ren won't be speaking up in her favour, given how Hana got sent back to Mist with an ultimatum for some hefty concessions. This ambassador business has already cost Ren enough.
I also kind of suspect Jiraiya strongly wants Hana to never see Mari again for the rest of either of their lives, which kind of puts the brakes on Hana regaining her ambassador slot. Ren won't be speaking up in her favour, given how Hana got sent back to Mist with an ultimatum for some hefty concessions. This ambassador business has already cost Ren enough.
- Location
- Italy
What could she do?Social isn't mind control, situation is king
This is not like the meeting with Ami, where both want something.
We just want one thing, and our proposal it's an ultimatum, it's not something we are willing to trade for, it's something that it's owned to us.
Ren choices are:
1)Accepting our ultimatum.
2)Refusing our ultimatum(Fine too, we get too guilty trip her and have our answer: Ren it's a lost cause)
3)trying to stop the discussion and play around with us.
Problem is, the only thing Hazou wants is 1, and it's not something he thinks he should trade for and knows how scary Ren is.
So if she tries 3, we shut everything down and take as a two.
She tries 3 in the half of the story, we force 1 again.
The only thing we want from Ren is 1, nothing else.
If we refuse to accepted anything that isn't one, and we don't accept any stall in the discussion...i don't see what she can do.
She can refuse?Yes, that would give Hazou closure regardless, because he tried, and the other party refused.
We can bring Hana with us if we feel so threatened and ask Jiraya about our plan and see what he thinks of it.
EDIT:The only problem would be if the meeting isn't private, but if she can't even talk with us in private, it's still a message to Hazou.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I'm not sure that it would be such a pain in the ass.
I mean, look at how much fun Ami is having by "teaching" us.
Owning does not necessitate running.
Ah yes, of course.
This does bring up some concerns.
Is J even planning on having Hana return to the ambassador position? Perhaps not...
Hmmm.
Edits:
- Location
- Yes.
So essentially, your plan is to issue an ultimatum to the Kage-level ninja.
And the threat that you give to her, in order for her to comply with your wishes...is that Hazou will not consider it possible for Ren and the Kurosawa Clan to become reconciled.
Even though Hazou has already established in the past that he doesn't consider the Kurosawa Clan (sans Hana, obviously) his family. Repeatedly, and out loud.
Meaning the threat Hazou is issuing is that he...will establish the status quo as permanent? That's not a big threat, TBH, given the low probability of it ever happening, ever.