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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Shadowwarp said:
High-jonin? I would say it's likely a lot more than 35 then, possibly the 50s at least just as a personal guess. 30 to 35 is a hood goal though, whether it is the minimum or not we can at least get a better idea on just what is considered high level reserves when he evaluates us.
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Chakra Reserves is doublecost, which generally means that the same XP investment will get you approximately 2/3 the level a singlecost skill would net you.

For instance, Level 60 Taijutsu will take 1830 XP overall, and 1830 XP will net you Level 42 in a doublecost skill like Chakra Reserves. Given that Level 60 is what you expect from a Jounin's primary stat, something relatively supplemental like Chakra Reserves isn't going to have as much XP investment.

In another reference frame, Pankurashun costs 173 CP to summon and Panjandrum costs 168. Those are Keiko's two highest-cost Pangolins and it'd take 341 CP to summon both of them, so somewhere in the ballpark of CR 35 is a good bet.
 
Well.
I call that a victory, a really really embarassing one... But still a victory.
We obtained important material on Ami to work on.
Half of it is her bullshitting Hazou on things she doesn't really believe strongly as she does, or just half truth she can't help but say because she's more broken than Keiko.
But that too is useful, if only to note how deep. in her problems she is.
More importantly it showed her true colors to Hazou, even if she didn't want to, so he can finally start some analysis on her, IC i mean
Ami seems to consider herself far more clever than she actually is....and far more in control than she actually is.

Her discussion on honesty is particulary interesting...
 
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Cariyaga said:
His measure of high jounin is "Keiko can summon two of her high tier summons".
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I actually forgot about that, that of itself is a good point of measurement.
Inferno Vulpix said:
Chakra Reserves is doublecost, which generally means that the same XP investment will get you approximately 2/3 the level a singlecost skill would net you.

For instance, Level 60 Taijutsu will take 1830 XP overall, and 1830 XP will net you Level 42 in a doublecost skill like Chakra Reserves. Given that Level 60 is what you expect from a Jounin's primary stat, something relatively supplemental like Chakra Reserves isn't going to have as much XP investment.

In another reference frame, Pankurashun costs 173 CP to summon and Panjandrum costs 168. Those are Keiko's two highest-cost Pangolins and it'd take 341 CP to summon both of them, so somewhere in the ballpark of CR 35 is a good bet.
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I actually didn't know about the double cost. Nevermind what I said. Though then again I still feel like a high jonin would be in the 40s.
 
Velorien said:
She had to be doing this deliberately, right?
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Yes, Hazō, duh.
"Honesty," she snapped, "is the ultimate game. Honesty is an illusion. It's a convenient tool when it's not a chain with which you bind yourself."

The ice crept up from the already freezing cold water, feet to ankles to knees and not stopping. He wanted to open his mouth, to remind her that he was done playing games, but he couldn't.

"When you say you're honest, that's already a lie. Honesty means telling people what you think and what you believe. It means you're pretending to know. If you say you're perfectly honest, you're saying you know your true self."
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lol Ami's BS is the best.
Hazō drew on his still-burgeoning diplomatic skills in order not to facepalm. It was hard.
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WTF, Hazō, this is the perfect time to facepalm. What are you doing?
"Let's work backwards. That simmering rage she showed at the Finals wasn't just from Nara. Her reflex is to turn her anger inwards, not outwards, and she can't sustain that much outwards that long. Nara made a contribution, given how she switched moods before and after his little stunt. But when she went into the arena, she wasn't angry-hurting. She was miserable-hurting. When did she have time to get that way? You'd have spent the morning analysing the letter. You needed to be ready for damage control. So you're right. The letter was the trigger.

"Here's the catch. I know my sister. It should have made her pissed off. Not miserable. Up, not down. At me, not the world. It shouldn't have made her unstable. She could have handled Nara. Violently, but she could. Instead, something primed her to explode. Something between our date and the letter? What did you do, Gōketsu? What did you not do?"
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If it wasn't so on-point I'd say Ami doesn't have (any of) the (many) necessary facts so it has to be BS. Since it was so on-point, I'm agnostic, and I wouldn't put it past Ami to get intel in weird ways.
 
[ ] Proto-Plan: The First Step Is Acknowledging That You Are Powerless Over Others
  • Give Keiko the letter.
    • Explain the part of the conversation that led to it.
    • If asked, our own concerns are that Ami is an apparently-loyal Mist-nin who may intend to recruit her back to Mist.
    • Do not ask about the contents for at least a day, or until Keiko volunteers information about them.
  • Discuss the entire conversation with Jiriaya. Include both the letter and the fact that we do not know its contents.
 
Ami was one of Keikou's weaknesses, but is Keiko really one of Ami's?

I guess this is what Mari meant when she said she could manipulate us to think anything if she wanted?

Fantastic chapter
 
Veedrac said:
If it wasn't so on-point I'd say Ami doesn't have (any of) the (many) necessary facts so it has to be BS. Since it was so on-point, I'm agnostic, and I wouldn't put it past Ami to get intel in weird ways.
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I forget, what happened with Keiko there that upset her?
Torpling said:
Hm, do you think Ami has a jutsu for making her voice sound like this so she can impress people? Maybe we could ask J for something like this.

Also, note how the first thing she says after going that deep into the Mori voice is:



Pretty badass.

Or she just pretended to go into the voice to fuck with Hazou, the facts that her eyes moved altough Keiko's never did and her lack of lack of motivation being hints. The letter just reads: "Permission to inflict whatever level of pain feels appropriate on the courier of this missive. Freedom of consequences guaranteed by Mori Ami ^_^"
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No hand seals or shouted technique name. Can people do jutsu without those? The only chakra things I can think of that don't involve either are infusing and activating seals and chakra adhesion.

Shadowwarp said:
All in all that was....well Hazo isn't dead so that's always win, but dear god is watching Hazo get torn apart in a social battle brutal, like the diplomatic equivalent of a jonin ripping him in half with their bare hands.
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We sparred with Guy repeatedly. Getting beaten up by people out of his league is practically Hazou's preferred learning style. It's like the extra XP you get in some editions of D&D for killing monsters way tougher than you.

I'm inclined to think that based on the eye moving thing (the other clue) Ami was just channeling the frozen skein deeper than any other Mori dares to do because alone along them all she's completely unafraid of the Voice.


jy3 said:
[ ] Proto-Plan: The First Step Is Acknowledging That You Are Powerless Over Others
  • Give Keiko the letter.
    • Explain the part of the conversation that led to it.
    • If asked, our own concerns are that Ami is an apparently-loyal Mist-nin who may intend to recruit her back to Mist.
    • Do not ask about the contents for at least a day, or until Keiko volunteers information about them.
  • Discuss the entire conversation with Jiriaya. Include both the letter and the fact that we do not know its contents.
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Suggested addition: describe how Ami's eyes were moving and how her voice did that echo thing and ask Keiko what that means.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Chakra Reserves is doublecost, which generally means that the same XP investment will get you approximately 2/3 the level a singlecost skill would net you.

For instance, Level 60 Taijutsu will take 1830 XP overall, and 1830 XP will net you Level 42 in a doublecost skill like Chakra Reserves. Given that Level 60 is what you expect from a Jounin's primary stat, something relatively supplemental like Chakra Reserves isn't going to have as much XP investment.
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:thonk: I'm now wondering how what we invest in will effect our future plans and how this in turn will change the amount of exp we earn.
 
Sentient Tree said:
Good to see his priorities are in order. :rofl:
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I'd be surprised if it's anything more than a legend that there's sealing secrets encoded in the letters, it sounds like the sort of thing that starts as a story and nobody can crack the code because there's no code to crack.

On the other hand maybe we could give it to Nara as a challenge.
 
- wait a second.

If Mori Ami is like us, no wonder she's not afraid of the Mori Voice! It's her equivalent of our local implosion-bomb specialist, and we get along just fine with him.
 
Great, can we please stop engaging with social combat with the quasi-hostile Jonin who's way better at it than us now? It's not like we're getting any better at it, that's not how XP works in this system.
 
So, one thing I got out of this exchange is that Ami was not happy about seeing Keiko miserable, and figured out that Hazou was likely related to the cause of it. Lots of little signs regarding that in her interactions even before Hazou brought it up - throwing our gift into the ocean? Her real reason for that was as a way to reject it because she was pissed off at Hazou. That bodes well for Keiko, I think.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Great, can we please stop engaging with social combat with the quasi-hostile Jonin who's way better at it than us now? It's not like we're getting any better at it, that's not how XP works in this system.
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I think we should consider one more meeting before we leave Mist, but keep it purely low-stakes. We don't need to probe for answers about whether she wants to marry us or not, and we don't need to discuss anything OPSEC-sensitive in general. But Ami does want 'cordial relations' with us and we probably shouldn't snub her.

...

I was gonna suggest that we try to bring Noburi and Keiko along next time depending on what was in the letter, but we could invite Ami to a game night before we leave Mist. Being invited to something like this is pretty good on the 'cordial relations' axis but doesn't require us to actually seriously talk with her much.
 
Enjou said:
So, one thing I got out of this exchange is that Ami was not happy about seeing Keiko miserable, and figured out that Hazou was likely related to the cause of it. Lots of little signs regarding that in her interactions even before Hazou brought it up - throwing our gift into the ocean? Her real reason for that was as a way to reject it because she was pissed off at Hazou. That bodes well for Keiko, I think.
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Doesn't bode well for Hazou or the Goketsu, though.
 
Cariyaga said:
Doesn't bode well for Hazou or the Goketsu, though.
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Well, depends on what Keiko's mood is later. Plus the fact that Keiko is in the group in the first place likely helps. That Hazou apparently does care about Keiko's well being is also likely something helpful, even if Ami wasn't particularly happy during this 'date'.
 
Hey that wasn't too bad! I was kinda dreading reading the chapter, but we're still alive, we know more about where we stand with regards to Ami, and we have a maybe untrustworthy letter that might help Keiko!

We should ask K if she wants the letter first or if we should have Jirayia look at it first.
 
Uhm...
So...how it works now?
Because I/we/The voices in ours head have our theory on why Ami does what she does, but this doesn't mean Hazou knows said theories.
On one hand, we all have our idea of Ami plans and mind, even based only on the Hazou chapters.
On the other, Hazou is not really someone that would start analyzing the behavior of a spec-jonin and say "She thinks like that", he's more the type to lose sanity point and be confused....like any non-jounin that talks with Ami.
This aside, what are we going to do with the moment when Ami went "hive-mind" on us?
We tell Jiraya?
We keep it for ourselves?
We explain our reasoning to Jiraya to keep it for ourselves and ask for his judgment?
Because not saying "She's talks like a bunch of people are in her heads" to our clan head firmly counts as a favor, in my opinion.
And not using the single crack in her facade that she, maybe, showed us, it's actually a good way to establish a measure of good faith on our part.
 
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For the record, I like Ami and want her to stick around, but:

Velorien said:
"Let's work backwards. That simmering rage she showed at the Finals wasn't just from Nara. Her reflex is to turn her anger inwards, not outwards, and she can't sustain that much outwards that long. Nara made a contribution, given how she switched moods before and after his little stunt. But when she went into the arena, she wasn't angry-hurting. She was miserable-hurting. When did she have time to get that way? You'd have spent the morning analysing the letter. You needed to be ready for damage control. So you're right. The letter was the trigger.

"Here's the catch. I know my sister. It should have made her pissed off. Not miserable. Up, not down. At me, not the world. It shouldn't have made her unstable. She could have handled Nara. Violently, but she could. Instead, something primed her to explode. Something between our date and the letter? What did you do, Gōketsu? What did you not do?"

"You're only guessing," Hazō stammered. Was that the end of the rain of lava?

"Yes, I am," Mori said with a brutal finality. "Correct me."
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What this actually means is that Ami's model of Hazou was off, she assumed that we told Keiko or that she was involved from the beginning and that her Plan didn't work the way she intended.

So this:
Velorien said:
"Playfulness is a tool," Ami went on mercilessly. "Fickleness is a tool. Humour is a tool. Does the Hokage's protection make you feel invincible? Do you think I didn't calculate every possible way to outmanoeuvre him after you die? Or maybe I am telling you all this, maybe I've been teaching you all along, because now I will take control, and when you go back to the Hokage, it will be as another of my tools."
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Regardless of us hurting Keiko, her plan didn't work and Hazou never became her tool,we should rub it into her face.

Also assuming that the whole letter doesn't fuck Keiko up but actually helps, we should really start to troll Ami with everything we have.
 
WC 397
[X] Action Plan: Getting it out the door

  • Debrief the clan.
    • Give Keiko the message.
      • She might want to wait for Jiraiya to open it.
    • Replay the meeting as closely as you can.
    • Hazou's thoughts:
      • Ami played with him again:
        • Her gift was literally a series of distractions.
        • The kunai being potentially dangerous is a thin excuse. She accepted the stamp with no hesitation.
          • It's likely she wanted to do the striptease to begin with, and simply found a decent excuse.
        • Mood swings very similar to the first meeting.
        • Literal games. She wasn't even trying to pretend they weren't.
      • Continued signs of disillusionment with the world's systems, and cynical fatalism.
        • First meeting, it was about her friends being sent to their deaths by the village.
        • This time, inter-clan marriages.
        • That she "made sacrifices to remain outside this system" means she has leverage or an agreement with her clan head? Something else? Might be verifiable.
      • Keiko clearly means something to Ami.
        • She changed her tack from playful to stonewall immediately. Wouldn't even acknowledge the issue.
        • She got genuinely angry when accused, and immediately turned it around.
        • Went into a Frozen Skein trance, presumably making herself vulnerable. Getting the right answer was that important to her.
      • Hazou takes the time to consider Ami's tactics, and think of both countermeasures, and ways of applying them himself.
    • Debrief Jiraiya when he returns, if necessary.
  • Run by Jiraiya (do later):
    • Shopping.
      • Consulting the legendary spymaster: Should we grab bunches of clothes for future disguises?
      • Suggest: Mari might appreciate something nice.
    • Acquire some merchants/craftsmen/musicians.
      • Grant them writs of patronage/travel to allow them to come to Leaf/Fire?
      • Purposes:
        • Start up future businesses (of which we have a stake in).
          • Consistent income stream is important.
        • Start on a Merchant Intel network.
        • Travelling musicians/performers sponsored by us would be good for PR.
    • Idea pitch: Permission to extract some major favors out of Shin (our cousin) by offering him a place in Leaf as part of the ambassador's diplomat corps, thereby jumpstarting his diplomat career.
  • Go to the closing ceremony
    • Be wary. It would be just our luck for something bad to happen.
    • Mention these concerns to the J-man as well.
      • Point out a potential security vulnerability: Sound magnification jutsu + Sonic attack = Very bad news.
      • Do this privately.
 
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