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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Velorien said:
"You offered your own sister… a tour."

"Sure. She might have wanted to see how the place had changed over the last two years. I wouldn't want to be rude to her when she dropped by after so long. It's a shame if she took it badly, but I trust her family to look out for her when she's not well."

"What about your letter, then?" Hazō insisted.
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Velorien said:
And you're not the kind of person to make her think that by accident."

"How do you know what kind of person I am, Hazō?"

"You're the kind of person who isn't supposed to hurt Keiko," Hazō said fiercely.
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Jeez, Hazou keeps going along with this pretense that Ami's a normal person who makes normal-person mistakes, rather than a powerful optimization engine that happens to inhabit a fleshy body.
not that he would know anything about that​

Velorien said:
It was probably deliberate, because everything about this woman was deliberate.
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Ah, there we go.

Velorien said:
She reached into her handbag with a smooth, flowing movement, and pulled out some ink paste and a seal—not the smiley seal, but one made of unfamiliar green stone. She wrote something quickly on a piece of parchment, then sealed it and held it out.

"Give her this," she said. Her voice had a strange, alien reverb, as if several people were speaking slightly out of sync.

"We have work to do."
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Huuuuh. If this isn't fucking with us, I wonder what changed her mind. Maybe she'd underestimated how badly-off Keiko would be? Maybe Keiko and the Goketsu are now in a good enough position that she's less concerned about Kei being dragged into Mori/Nara politics? (And she knows that's gonna happen anyway, courtesy of Shikamaru's announcement.)

Also, chalk up another point in favor of the Ami hivemind theory.

MMKII said:
Out of left field comment about Nara.

That's... very odd.
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I think it's in reference to him unsealing drinks during one of his matches, like she just did? Demonstrates his appreciation for mundane seal use, preparation, and the finer things in life.
 
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Kurkistan said:
I'm gonna vote a pretty solid "no" on that strategy. Yet another betrayal of Keiko all for the sake of guarding against an outside possibility that Ami could achieve much more simply without having to make Hazou the messenger.
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We can just tell everyone as a group and let the J-man proceed from there.

I feel very strongly about leaving our commanding officer (in multiple ways) out of the loop on this, given that it could potentially be suspect.
 
Velorien said:
"When you say you're honest, that's already a lie. Honesty means telling people what you think and what you believe. It means you're pretending to know. If you say you're perfectly honest, you're saying you know your true self."

She took a step forward. He couldn't take a step back.

"Are you willing to say that to my face?"

The ice kept creeping upwards. Hazō knew his true self. He dreamt of Uplift and gave spontaneous impassioned speeches about it. He loved his family and would do anything to protect them. He was patient up to a point, but then all his frustration would come out in one big burst. He was smooth and silver-tongued when he had time to prepare a plan, but his natural awkwardness came out when he was put on the spot. He was—

"All you have is stories. Stories you tell yourself about yourself. Countless stories with nothing at the core. No true self, because there never was. Is that the honesty you're offering me?

"Because I'm cool with playing that game," Mori smirked. "I'll pretend if you do."

"It's not a game," Hazō wheezed as he regained control of his body. "Still… not a game…"

"Victory conditions. Rules. Challenge. It's a game.

"So what is it you want to ask that makes it worth putting up with my shenanigans?"
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This bullshit is infuriating.

I hate Jonin. Fuck 'em.
 
Anyway, I want 10 level in Medicin because that probably helps with understanding chakra sensors. It's just some 55 XP, unless it's double and I forgot.

Now that everyone is sad about Ami, some Biosealing should cheer everyone up, yay!
 
Ami gave us a clear answer to the marriage question, and her reasoning seems coherent and in-character. While it's impossible to be sure she wasn't engineering that for us and will turn around to press the issue more, we have been presented a fairly clear path to proceed on with respect to that topic.

The letter she gave us, I believe, should be given to Keiko ASAP. Jiraiya being there is fine too, but I'm not inclined to keep this from Keiko.

A frustrating meeting overall, and I suspect it was frustrating for Ami too, but in the end we got what we needed. Since Ami allegedly wants cordial relations, we should take her up on a third meeting, with a much more casual bent where we talk about stuff like how to keep in contact once we leave.

If I'm being honest, the idea of Ami marrying Hazou was intensely interesting for a variety of reasons, and in a sense I feel disappointed that the offer wasn't genuine after all, but it does make things less complicated.
 
MMKII said:
Infohazard protocols. Give this to the J-man. Don't look at it, don't let Keiko look at it, etc.
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Oneiros said:
Tell Kei about it while we give it to the J man
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MMKII said:
We can just tell everyone as a group and let the J-man proceed from there.

I feel very strongly about leaving our commanding officer (in multiple ways) out of the loop on this, given that it could potentially be suspect.
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Every time we have chosen to make someone's decision for them recently has turned out badly. That is literally the thing Keiko is struggling with at the moment - the loss of what little agency she has to people she ought to be able to trust. I agree that some caution would be useful, but do we really think that if Ami wants to get some kind of infohazard to Keiko that she would need to go through us to do it? I don't.

I say we talk to Keiko, tell her our concerns that whatever Ami gave us could potentially be harmful to her because if Ami was capable of hurting her emotionally once, she capable of doing so again, and asking her if she'd be willing for us to run it by Jiraiya first. If she is, great, run it by big J. If not, then we give it to her directly because this 'making decisions for other people for their own good' shtick has already been pointed out as one of Hazou's biggest character flaws and I'm getting sick and tired of watching him hurt his loved ones by making the same mistake over and over again.
 
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Velorien said:
Her voice had a strange, alien reverb, as if several people were speaking slightly out of sync.
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Hm, do you think Ami has a jutsu for making her voice sound like this so she can impress people? Maybe we could ask J for something like this.

Also, note how the first thing she says after going that deep into the Mori voice is:

Velorien said:
"We have work to do."
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Pretty badass.

Or she just pretended to go into the voice to fuck with Hazou, the facts that her eyes moved altough Keiko's never did and her lack of lack of motivation being hints. The letter just reads: "Permission to inflict whatever level of pain feels appropriate on the courier of this missive. Freedom of consequences guaranteed by Mori Ami ^_^"
 
Rhodes said:
I say we talk to Keiko, tell her our concerns that whatever Ami gave us could potentially be harmful to her because if Ami was capable of hurting her emotionally once, she capable of doing so again, and asking her if she'd be willing for us to run it by Jiraiya first. If she is, great, run it by big J. If not, then we give it to her directly because this 'making decisions for other people for their own good' shtick has already been pointed out as one of Hazou's biggest character flaws and I'm getting sick and tired of watching him hurt his loved ones by making the same mistake over and over again.
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As long as its made clear that J probably wants to see it at some point and that it might be a good idea to hold off until we're all together to go through it, that's fine.

As far as I'm concerned we need to take care of it in a way that minimizes the pile of "Shit that is apparently Hazou's fault." So, on one hand we don't want Jiraiya mad at us. On the other, we don't want to stomp Keiko's trust into the mud any more than we have. Shifting the onus of responsibility onto "Keiko actually decided she wanted to open it right this minute." will take care of the former situation, mostly.
 
Honestly, that conversation was very similar to something my former roommate said at a party while he was out of his mind on psychedelics. It's not fun, and on a certain level it stops being interesting because you end up mentally disengaging from whatever they're trying to say, except it's worse here because Ami is doing it intentionally.

I'm punching out of the 'More Ami' group, might consider going back to Akane or jumping on the Ino-waifu train after some nice cleansing SCIENCE.

(Including bioseals, potentially.)
 
Velorien said:
You did not have an opportunity to offer her Ichiraku ramen, but you did stuff a post-interaction survey into her hands before you ran.
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God damn it Hazo

Velorien said:
You didn't have time to observe her reaction. The "small talk" part of the plan unfortunately did not happen. Clearly, a third date meeting will be necessary.
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A third meeting huh, the QMs are absolutely loving this


All in all that was....well Hazo isn't dead so that's always win, but dear god is watching Hazo get torn apart in a social battle brutal, like the diplomatic equivalent of a jonin ripping him in half with their bare hands.
 
Don't hide the letter from Keiko. If Mori Ami wanted to deliver a message to Keiko without us knowing, she could do so. We probably want to tell Jiraiya about it, but we need to give it directly to Keiko without reading it.
 
Anywho, this seems like a good time to set this up:

[] Training Hazou: Empathy Drip. Divert 10% of the XP Hazou gains into a fund that automatically raises Empathy when enough has accumulated, until a vote to remove the Empathy Drip passes.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail is this something you would find acceptable?

Everyone else, do you think 10% is a good number, if the QMs give the go-ahead?
 
Oh no. We did not establishing a scheme to confirm integrity of letters. I instructed Hazou to do it at the first opportunity, but Ami distracted him with a gift and then, and then— It's just as I was predicting.

*sobs in despondent laughter*
 
PurposefulZephyr said:
Pointing out the obvious, but "we" here contains either Hazou or the Ami hivemind.
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Hazo: We as in the two of us?
Ami: We as in the voices in my head
Hazo: You have those too?
Ami: Doesn't everyone?
Hazo: Oh thank the Sage, I thought it was just me!
Ami: Ha, that's silly! Developing a hivemind is a perfectly normal part of growing up.
Anbu chaperone: Mist kids are so fucking weird....
 
Shadowwarp said:
Hazo: We as in the two of us?
Ami: We as in the voices in my head
Hazo: You have those too?
Ami: Doesn't everyone?
Hazo: Oh thank the Sage, I thought it was just me!
Ami: Ha, that's silly! Developing a hivemind is a perfectly normal part of growing up.
Anbu chaperone: Mist kids are so fucking weird....
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Nah.

Hazō: People don't have more than one voices in their head?
 
Probably shouldn't go straight to J with it without at least notifying Keiko first. Part of the issues shes been having are about people feeling the need to work around her rather than allowing her choice.

To combat this, it would be better to simply inform her about the letter and our opinion on what to do with it (show it to J first, open it yourself, dash it in a fire, whatever) and let her decide. Whatever the consequences are we deal with those after.

Since this is not only a problem Keiko has, but one of Hazo's ongoing problems with relating to other people (that is, microing interactions to an excessive degree so the other side reacts in expected ways towards a desired end goal) it would be a good way to show we're working on that.

Or at the very least, Hanzo should get better at modelling systems.
 
MMKII said:
Let's not jump the gun until narrative solutions have been pursued.
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This is something that's been in the works for a while now, and I recall previous talking points about it.

I am not proposing this as an attempt to replace or mitigate the need for narrative solutions, but to support and augment them in creating a firm foundation for meaningful change to Hazou's character over time. With or without this in place I will still support pursuing narrative actions to advance this goal and propose what I can think of.

The QMs have gone on record in a previous version of this conversation saying that they do not believe that characterization is decided by stats, but they appeared amenable to the idea that raising a stat represents dedicated effort in that direction, and that such a thing may support or augment the narrative-level actions that influence characterization, which is all that I am attempting to do.

As I remember things, there was widespread support for an Empathy Drip before the tournament, but we decided to hold off on it in order to optimize our tournament stats. I figured that since the tournament is now over and we can afford to divert XP like this, there would still be support for this.

To repeat: I do not mean this as a way to short-circuit Hazou's characterization, but as a way to support the narrative solutions we already intend to employ, and make the task ahead of us slightly less daunting.
 
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Spector29 said:
Honestly, that conversation was very similar to something my former roommate said at a party while he was out of his mind on psychedelics. It's not fun, and on a certain level it stops being interesting because you end up mentally disengaging from whatever they're trying to say, except it's worse here because Ami is doing it intentionally.

I'm punching out of the 'More Ami' group, might consider going back to Akane or jumping on the Ino-waifu train after some nice cleansing SCIENCE.

(Including bioseals, potentially.)
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Akane unironically best girl, but it's a dead end path. Our clan isn't even a year old and those connections are gonna be important. If there's one thing I agreed with the update on, it's that forcing the relationship will only hurt them both in the long run. I mean, on one hand it's got that romantic Romeo & Juliet feel to it and that's sweet, but one the other hand Romeo and Juliet messed and died so.....yeah.....
 
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