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PMYF was simply a reinvention of rock-nin's fighting systems. Macerator is genuinely new, though. Not sure if we want to keep it to ourselves.
Yes, I recall. I dont see it being used frequently though at the moment, bringing it into public scrutiny may be problematic.


Do we? From other villages, certainly, but we wouldn't want to keep all of our seals to ourselves. I can see the value in keeping things like Implosion seals as secret trump cards, so maybe we should figure out which we're okay with sharing the designs of and I can add a stipulation for that, but at the very least we have more generic seals like Force Wall that we'll want to get approved.
PMYF is (after decent effort making a better version) "Throw a speeding bus at your opponent" tier. Right now we can use it to instagib anyone with 100kg boulders.

Likewise, Macerators (as we saw in Event 5) are the perfect delivery system for pathogens, poisons and irritants.

Sharing these with Leaf as a whole might be good on the short term. Every ninja who brings these out onto the field is another possible OPSEC breach.

Three can keep a secret if two are dead.

In general: We should be exceedingly careful about any potential proto-WMDs we release to the public. What would Shikaku say?
 
Yes, I recall. I dont see it being used frequently though at the moment, bringing it into public scrutiny may be problematic.



PMYF is (after decent effort making a better version) "Throw a speeding bus at your opponent" tier. Right now we can use it to instagib anyone with 100kg boulders.

Likewise, Macerators (as we saw in Event 5) are the perfect delivery system for pathogens, poisons and irritants.

Sharing these with Leaf as a whole might be good on the short term. Every ninja who brings these out onto the field is another possible OPSEC breach.

Three can keep a secret if two are dead.

In general: We should be exceedingly careful about any potential proto-WMDs we release to the public. What would Shikaku say?
PMYF is only instagib if it hits, which I think you'll find is a trait shared by things like explosive seals on kunai. Macerators can be a potent combat tool but simply aren't WMDs as they are.

When I imagine asking Jiraiya whether it's worth it to equip Leaf-nin with useful weapons if Leaf's enemies might one day copy them and use them against us, all that comes to mind is Jiraiya pointing to all of the combat-applicable seals that Leaf has already approved despite these very same concerns.
 
PMYF is only instagib if it hits, which I think you'll find is a trait shared by things like explosive seals on kunai. Macerators can be a potent combat tool but simply aren't WMDs as they are.

When I imagine asking Jiraiya whether it's worth it to equip Leaf-nin with useful weapons if Leaf's enemies might one day copy them and use them against us, all that comes to mind is Jiraiya pointing to all of the combat-applicable seals that Leaf has already approved despite these very same concerns.
My point is not that these *are* nukes, but that they are components of building something akin to one.

Can you imagine an Arikada or Canon!Orochimaru equivalent getting access to:

1) Macerators
2) Chakra ebola

This does not bode well IMO. We shouldnt bring the doomsday clock any closer to midnight unless we are sure we can avert disaster there.



There are some things I think the Hivemind is too careful about. Sharing seals and weapons is not one of them. In general, I think Jiraiya's opinion is moderately useful to inform decisions on the matter, but its not enough IMO. You would have to get Shikaku's as well if you were to convince me we were being sufficiently cautious.
 
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My point is not that these *are* nukes, but that they are components of building something akin to one.

Can you imagine an Arikada or Canon!Orochimaru equivalent getting access to:

1) Macerators
2) Chakra ebola

This does not bode well IMO. We shouldnt bring the doomsday clock any closer to midnight unless we are sure we can avert disaster there.



There are some things I think the Hivemind is too careful about. Sharing seals and weapons is not one of them. In general, I think Jiraiya's opinion is moderately useful to inform decisions on the matter, but its not enough IMO. You would have to get Shikaku's as well if you were to convince me we were being sufficiently cautious.

This. We just had a discussion during the Akane situation that we had a tendency to treat everyone as full allies
 
My point is not that these *are* nukes, but that they are components of building something akin to one.

Can you imagine an Arikada or Canon!Orochimaru equivalent getting access to:

1) Macerators
2) Chakra ebola

This does not bode well IMO. We shouldnt bring the doomsday clock any closer to midnight unless we are sure we can avert disaster there.



There are some things I think the Hivemind is too careful about. Sharing seals and weapons is not one of them. In general, I think Jiraiya's opinion is moderately useful to inform decisions on the matter, but its not enough IMO. You would have to get Shikaku's as well if you were to convince me we were being sufficiently cautious.
Yes, I'm sure Orochimaru is stymied that even though he's finished his chakra super-virus he simply doesn't have any sort of delivery mechanism for it whatsoever. Guess he'll just have to give up on his plans entirely.

Speaking seriously though, every seal has some minuscule chance that it could potentially be important for the function of some hypothetical WMD, but if you're willing to accept 'any nonzero chance that this could lead to a WMD means it shouldn't be used' then you will be able to argue yourself into a corner for basically any seal, regardless of the extent it is actually likely to benefit Leaf's strategic position at this point in time where Leaf's strength could very well create a lasting peace which reduces WMD rates across the board.

So I don't find myself particularly swayed by 'there is some future where this turns out bad for us' in isolation from the futures where it turns out well for us.
 
Seal creation involves creating the blank and Chakra infusion.

Say for a particular seal a sealmaster has one working copy of the seal. So by visual inspection they know how to make a blank.

How much trouble will it be for them to uncover the right infusion method?
 
Speaking seriously though, every seal has some minuscule chance that it could potentially be important for the function of some hypothetical WMD, but if you're willing to accept 'any nonzero chance that this could lead to a WMD means it shouldn't be used' then you will be able to argue yourself into a corner for basically any seal, regardless of the extent it is actually likely to benefit Leaf's strategic position at this point in time where Leaf's strength could very well create a lasting peace which reduces WMD rates across the board.

So I don't find myself particularly swayed by 'there is some future where this turns out bad for us' in isolation from the futures where it turns out well for us.
It is not that I am assigning nonzero probability to this happening that is driving me forward, but that the potential risk/reward ratio is too great. In fact

"There is a nonzero chance of X going wrong, thus: we never do X."

is quite different from

"There is a non-negligible chance of X going wrong, thus: we should do X only if it is immediately beneficial to us compared to other options."

We have learned from Event 4 that, unless the chance of someone trying their luck is vanishingly low, Some Damn Fool will always be there to take the gamble. Even if you assign a one in ten thousand chance that (along some avenue) OPSEC gets broken on Macerators and gets put into the wrong hands on any given mission, there are still so many prospective chances for this to happen that its all but assured. If we just let whatever thousand Leaf nin use these on whatever thousands of missions they go on a year for whatever number of years, thats a dice roll for Great Failure each time.

This isn't me arguing that some astonishingly small epsilon is going to come back to bite us in the ass on a single occasion (like say, using Force Walls in Event 5 Round 2 in the safe way we planned to use them) this is me arguing that the binomial distribution is going to guarantee a decent chance that someone somewhere along the line fucks this up, unless we are sufficiently cautious about it.

In general, I am firmly on the "Stop being so damn cautious about unlikely things" camp. This isn't that issue, this actually is a potential problem.
 
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It is not that I am assigning nonzero probability to this happening that is driving me forward, but that the potential risk/reward ratio is too great. In fact

"There is a nonzero chance of X going wrong, thus: we never do X."

is quite different from

"There is a non-negligible chance of X going wrong, thus: we should do X only if it is immediately beneficial to us compared to other options."

We have learned from Event 4 that, unless the chance of someone trying their luck is vanishingly low, Some Damn Fool will always be there to take the gamble. Even if you assign a one in ten thousand chance that (along some avenue) OPSEC gets broken on Macerators and gets put into the wrong hands on any given mission, there are still so many prospective chances for this even to happen that its all but assured. If we just let whatever thousand Leaf nin use these on whatever thousands of missions they go on a year for whatever number of years, thats a dice roll for Great Failure each time.

This isn't me arguing that some astonishingly small epsilon is going to come back to bite us in the ass on a single occasion (like say, using Force Walls in Event 5 Round 2 in the safe way we planned to use them) this is me arguing that the binomial distribution is going to guarantee a decent chance that someone somewhere along the line fucks this up, unless we are sufficiently cautious about it.

In general, I am firmly on the "Stop being so damn cautious about unlikely things" camp. This isn't that issue, this actually is a potential problem.
How about sell the high OPSEC seals only to vetted ANBU and if required to Tower in very low quantities? It is never publicly advertised.

If done that way it is unlikely that the seals will be very well known and since it is available in such low quantities it'll probably only be used in missions where the seal would be highly useful/ critical.

The only problem here is that to introduce any new seal to the Market, notes of it's design have to be given to Tower. If they share this with every seal master in Konoha the above is moot unless we've an agreement with the seal masters regarding OPSEC critical seals.
 
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How about sell the high OPSEC seals only to vetted ANBU and if required to Tower in very low quantities? It is never publicly advertised.

If done that way it is unlikely that the seals will be very well known and since it is available in such low quantities it'll probably only be used in missions where the seal would be highly useful/ critical.

The only problem here is to introduce any new seal to the Market notes of it's design have to be given to Tower. If they share this with every seal master in Konoha the above is moot unless we've an agreement with the seal masters regarding OPSEC critical seals.
I would be fine with that, as long as we can convince Jiraiya that Macerators be restricted to ANBU use due to how trivially easy it is to do Firelog Macerators or Chakra Dragonfly Dust Macerators or putting any other poison/paralytic/neurotoxin in there for instaneous AOE dispersal.

In a sense, PMYF isnt even that bad. So thats probably fine, regardless of my misgivings about handing out details of our personal arsenal to people.
 
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So I was doing some thinking on our weakness when it comes to dealing with financing and funding various projects. The main issue we have is that we do not have enough Capital to invest as heavily as we are planning. And I have some ideas on how we could go about improving our financial situation to better suit the scope of the plans we want to enact.

What stops us from investing in a merchant and assisting him in ways that will allow him to succeed and grow as a business thus giving us more resources to finance our other plans? The Hokage might be very limited in what he can personally invest due to the way the tax system is setup but that does not stop our characters from using our personal allowance. And is there anything that stops us from volunteering our free time in helping out at a shop doing menial tasks such as organizing a warehouse or moving goods from one point to another outside of a mission? We obviously cannot post D ranked missions to assist in the business as that would be very bad ethically as well as gain a lot of pushback from everyone.
 
So I was doing some thinking on our weakness when it comes to dealing with financing and funding various projects. The main issue we have is that we do not have enough Capital to invest as heavily as we are planning. And I have some ideas on how we could go about improving our financial situation to better suit the scope of the plans we want to enact.

What stops us from investing in a merchant and assisting him in ways that will allow him to succeed and grow as a business thus giving us more resources to finance our other plans? The Hokage might be very limited in what he can personally invest due to the way the tax system is setup but that does not stop our characters from using our personal allowance. And is there anything that stops us from volunteering our free time in helping out at a shop doing menial tasks such as organizing a warehouse or moving goods from one point to another outside of a mission? We obviously cannot post D ranked missions to assist in the business as that would be very bad ethically as well as gain a lot of pushback from everyone.
We have vague plans on doing this with the Telescope Merchant and *I* at least want to do something similar with Ichiraku Ramen.
 
If we have free time available during our recovery from the chunin exam we should definitely put fourth these suggestions into our plans. By which I mean after the tournament.
 
I don't recall and I'm on my phone and can't easily get to a character sheets but do we have a refresh for Our Fate points? I would like to put forward the proposal that we eat one of our refreshes to represent the obligation and effort necessary to found and run a successful business. We could also do the same sort of thing in making the school successful. Or if we're feeling very bold we could do both and eat to refresh to have both of these things.
 
Not every update need to advance the plot? We need a breather episode.

Do we? The pace has been pretty slow for a while and right now we don't have a whole lot to do before Noburi comes back/the Exam. It's a good time to go a little bit faster. On the other hand, keeping slow updates is good for us given the new length-based rewards but I don't think @Velorien has applied them as of late.

This shouldn't be taken the wrong way/as a complaint. I truly enjoy the story and didn't have the energy to write a plan that would let time fly faster. However I can understand the desire to see more interesting things happen than game night.
 
Do we? The pace has been pretty slow for a while and right now we don't have a whole lot to do before Noburi comes back/the Exam. It's a good time to go a little bit faster. On the other hand, keeping slow updates is good for us given the new length-based rewards but I don't think @Velorien has applied them as of late.

This shouldn't be taken the wrong way/as a complaint. I truly enjoy the story and didn't have the energy to write a plan that would let time fly faster. However I can understand the desire to see more interesting things happen than game night.
The problem is we are waiting for Jutsu Proposals to get reviewed on the QM side, Jiraiya needs to do whatever hes doing behind the scenes, and we may as well take the time to get the ball rolling on stuff.

You'll note the plan a week or so ago was supposed to take a whole week IC. It got interrupted by Jiriaya and mom
 
Reposting J's recommendations for what we should learn:

Jiraiya snorted. "Fair enough. Anyway, yes. I can arrange for you guys to get some good stuff, and I'll have Ebisu train you. He's far from the most powerful ninja Leaf has, but no one anywhere is a better teacher. Keiko, we should get you a defensive technique that will keep face-punchers off of you. Noburi...maybe a mobility jutsu? You've got good range on that Water Whip, but someone like Keiko could give you a hard time."
 
Applications for the right to sell seals never previously approved by the tower must include a one-time fee of (20-100 depending on how draconian the Tower is feeling) copies of the fully functioning seal or set thereof for testing and the village reserve stock, along with written instructions governing the seal's intended uses and a copy of the sealmaster's notes in case the sealmaster dies before anyone else masters the seal.

This acts as a rudimentary form of patent protection/incentive: every sealmaster other than the inventor who makes that seal, or any seal derived from it, gives 50% of gross revenue from said seals to the original inventor for 2 years.

As sealmasters of Leaf, do we get access to these notes? Are there any restrictions besides OPSEC on making other people's seals for personal use?

If it's below market rates, then the game plan is to batch-negotiate sales before getting the receipt, for delivery after submitting sufficient seals to the Tower to get them to start declining to purchase seals. No money changes hands before the receipt so everything is legal - you just entered a mutually beneficial forward contract where when you agree to attempt to get seals approved for sale, they agree to purchase a certain quantity at a specific rate.

(BTW, are forward contracts a thing in this setting, or do we have to invent them?)

Huh, I like this.

I believe one of the first historical examples of future trading was the Dōjima Rice Exchange, started in the late 1600s. Given the low population, short history, and quasi medieval society of the Elemental Nations, financial instruments more advanced than loans and insurance probably don't exist. There may be personal pacts for forwards and other futures-like trades, but probably not formal, transferable contracts. (Insurance has analogues in the medieval European triple contract, and probably other places.)

Bonus: If we invent Dōjima, we also get to invent the short squeeze!
(We should probably leapfrog straight to speculation on seal-based cryptocurrencies, though.)


Dōjima: Dōjima Rice Exchange - Wikipedia


Triple contract: Untitled Document
 
Reposting J's recommendations for what we should learn:
Fuuton: Clashing Bladestorm
Element Wind  
Effect 0  
Duration Half a Minute +30
Durability N/A  
Casting Speed Supplemental +20
Range Caster (-2)  
AoE 1 target (Caster)  
Disadvantage Uses All Unsecured Weapons -5
Advantage Change Defensive Stat +30
Advantage Major Skill Bonus (Ranged Weapons) +30
Strain 105  
Chakra Cost 21  
The winds stirred around her body aggressively, and suddenly from innumerable hideaways in her garb emerged weapons: kunai, shuriken, even a common kitchen knife. They hovered in the air before her, poised to strike, as her junior approached, thinking to have the advantage in melee. He was proven wrong by fifteen stab wounds to the torso.

This technique brings into the wind's grasp all of the user's unsecured weapons. A weapon is defined as unsecured if it not held in the hands (This technique may be cast while holding a single small weapon in either hand, but not both), has an edge, and can be freely acccessed. "Secured" weapons are those that take at least an additional Supplemental action to get to.

Tapping into the user's talent with weapons, ranged or otherwise, Clashing Bladestorm defends the user against physical attacks with a cloud of autonomous wind-driven weaponry pulled from their body. While the user has sufficient control of them to touch them, it takes an addiitonal Standard or Supplemental action to direct their use (sufficiently to, for instance, allow nonlethal combat).

It allows the user to roll Ranged or Melee Weapons, adding the technique's Aspect Bonus to the roll, (whichever is higher) as defense against anyone attacking the user in close range instead of Athletics, allowing them to focus their efforts on other techniques, or retaliating. The cloud of weaponry also serves as defense, similarly, against Ranged and Melee Weapons. As such, it allows use of Ranged Weapons while in melee.

e: Note: I was considering making it a reactive-supplementary technique, like Substiution. If so I'd probably price it at ~8-10 chakra higher.
:whistle:
I just realized I didn't ping @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail with this one.
 
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