@faflec/QMs/Others: if BtPS (OPSEC) really is meant to be the same except for the singular difference of putting a high priority on not using skywalkers, could we just do that? Maybe change the base plan to say "Do what BtPS (Speed) <link> says, except manage as best as possible without using skywalkers within anything resembling sight of the enemy"? The iffy thing is that the how of it is a bit in-depth in the plan itself right now, more appropriate to a NBS than a plan body. I'm not sure if we're ready for cascading sets of NBS, though... :o
Eh, sure. I can edit it. TBH I kinda figured that BtPS (Speed) was cautious enough after the edits.

That reminds me.

[X] Action Plan: Blow this popsicle stand (Speed)
Adhoc vote count started by faflec on Jul 21, 2017 at 12:52 AM, finished with 290 posts and 7 votes.
  • 8

    [X] Action Plan: Blow this popsicle stand (Speed)
    [X] Action Plan: This Is Not A Drill
    [X] Action Plan: No risky-business (risk-averse)
    [X] Action Plan: All hail lord OPSEC (Prioritize OPSEC)
    [X] Action Plan: Can't we just talk this out? (Diplomacy)
    [X] Action Plan: Blow this popsicle stand (OPSEC)
 
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I wouldn't trust a deniable asset with a mission that could very easily risk the life of my own clan.

Clearly Jiraiya was the one who killed Minami.

You're right, but also jumping to conclusions. Jiraiya is needed in Leaf and it would be quite difficult to disguise his going missing. He needed an asset who won't require bringing any new non-clanmember in on this, and who can operate completely off-the-books without being noticed missing or requiring any reshuffled missions or orders. Preferably one who has demonstrated a resistance to mind-reading. One who has excellent deception and infiltration skills, knows how to perfectly imitate a Mist jounin, and is intimately familiar enough with the team to accomplish the mission with the necessary precision. Somebody who could erase the last few moments of someone's memories if they had to. Somebody with a demonstrated ability to use genjutsu in combat to subtly steer opponents into a countermove. Ideally, they would also be the 10-time-winner of Mist's woman's CQC contest.

Heck, if they were really good they might even do everything on their own initiative without involving J at all after they asked them what he was so upset about.

If only there were some sort of novel, non-lethal paralytic dragonfly toxin nobody would be able to trace back to him...

Is it a good idea to explicitly bring the air purifier back? It might be useful to have a sample of the toxin, but it could also be very problematic.


Of course, on the off chance that J isn't behind this, the teams absolutely need to reunite at any cost before the other gets to the contact and then head straight for Leaf. One compromised contact means that any of the others could have been as well, especially any added based on Goda-intel.



@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail There is a thing I'm confused about. The Jonin moved to the kitchen before turning around to face us. Then she activated Hozuki's Mantle to protect herself from Minami's attack, before killing her.

The reason I'm confused is because Hozuki's Mantle is a technique that works at a 270 degree angle, with the open 90 degrees in front of the user. This means that the Jonin's defense would only provide cover from behind and the sides: in this case it would make no sense for Hozuki's Mantle to protect her from Minami because there is no water in front of her.

Even with the obvious answer (the Jonin decided to turn ≥45 degrees to the side) there are still issues:
  • From the description of combat Minami would have needed to be 2m away from the enemy Jonin to have "met" the defense, instead of it forming around her and blasting her back, or trapping her (disclaimer: I don't know what would happen if Hozuki's Mantle activated while someone was within its radius). Why, then, would she have swung downwards from such a distance?
  • Hozuki's Mantle has a 2m radius; given the tight confines of a dining room/kitchen corridor I don't know if this is even possible to form without obstruction (walls, furniture...).
  • Hozuki's Mantle is described as being slow to move, and while a high TacMove does counter this it still raises the problem of how the ninja managed to turn to the side (to block Minami's attack), then cross the 2m distance to kill Minami without the Mantle catching on something.
Edit: Also, MC bonuses ought to apply.

Edit2: On second thought, maybe not MC bonus, it would be a tight fit.

Somebody with a demonstrated ability to use genjutsu in combat to subtly steer opponents into a countermove.



Why in the world would she do things "her style"?

Also, what's the difference between poison gas and genjutsu? Whether it sticks around after we dispel. If it is Mari, I'd put that "gas" being a genjustu at 65%, and 30% it being a misterator loaded with something Jiraya has access to.

Thus, I predict a roughly 60% chance that the gas is a genjutsu, and won't get any worse after we cast dispel. The odds of it being a genjutsu are a lot worse if there aren't forms that have *any* affect after a dispel. But I presume that lingering disorientation after a dispel is entirely possible. Still, that's knowledge that Hazo has that I wouldn't.

If I recall correctly, storage seals don't seal chakra constructs. If the gas were a genjutsu the air purifier shouldn't have worked. Easy enough to find out one way or the other by investigating the purifier, though.



Also, @eaglejarl I just thought of something: It's entirely possible that Kagome would have noticed something being up, and/or won initiative if he were here -- either case would work out very differently: Without having won initiative she wouldn't have gotten Hozuki's Mantle up, and would have had to attempt to Tac Move out of the way of a Kagome blast with full multicombat bonuses in his favor.

...and is intimately familiar enough with the team to accomplish the mission with the necessary precision.
 
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@eaglejarl @OliWhail since you're also GMs: Is the AoE technique the electroshock jutsu? Because I'd like to point out that that requires the enemy to be touching the ground, and Noburi/Hazou both have Skywalkers which would allow them to avoid the attack.
Enemy initiative: Hozuki's mantle, prep kunai
Minami initiative: "Skywalk!", has to wait until next round so boys can respond before she casts her jutsu. Maybe declares meatshielding against the enemy.
Hazō and Noburi: jump in the air, maybe do some productive stuff (throw explosives? Pull up water whip?)

Enemy initiative, round two: "Giant Water Jutsu of Doom no Jutsu!"
 
Enemy initiative: Hozuki's mantle, prep kunai
Minami initiative: "Skywalk!", has to wait until next round so boys can respond before she casts her jutsu. Maybe declares meatshielding against the enemy.
Hazō and Noburi: jump in the air, maybe do some productive stuff (throw explosives? Pull up water whip?)

Enemy initiative, round two: "Giant Water Jutsu of Doom no Jutsu!"
?? I thought you could hold your action until later in the round and then act?
 
Holy Hel.

I leave for two minutes and you guys kill Minami again?!
/s
Wasn't us this time!!!


e: It occurs to me, there is something we could have done better: We could have thoroughly mined the land surrounding the place before we knocked on the door. On which note, I will be greatly dissapointed in Kagome if he didn't do that himself.
 
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@Velorien Out of curiosity, was there any particular reason Minami decided to attack rather than retreat by making use of Hazou's explosives and/or MEW to break out of the house?
Because it was a reinforced building, it would have taken multiple detonations to break out of, and she didn't know how many. Turning her back on a jōnin for that length of time would not have been a good idea.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail There is a thing I'm confused about. The Jonin moved to the kitchen before turning around to face us. Then she activated Hozuki's Mantle to protect herself from Minami's attack, before killing her.

The reason I'm confused is because Hozuki's Mantle is a technique that works at a 270 degree angle, with the open 90 degrees in front of the user. This means that the Jonin's defense would only provide cover from behind and the sides: in this case it would make no sense for Hozuki's Mantle to protect her from Minami because there is no water in front of her.

Even with the obvious answer (the Jonin decided to turn ≥45 degrees to the side) there are still issues:
  • From the description of combat Minami would have needed to be 2m away from the enemy Jonin to have "met" the defense, instead of it forming around her and blasting her back, or trapping her (disclaimer: I don't know what would happen if Hozuki's Mantle activated while someone was within its radius). Why, then, would she have swung downwards from such a distance?
  • Hozuki's Mantle has a 2m radius; given the tight confines of a dining room/kitchen corridor I don't know if this is even possible to form without obstruction (walls, furniture...).
  • Hozuki's Mantle is described as being slow to move, and while a high TacMove does counter this it still raises the problem of how the ninja managed to turn to the side (to block Minami's attack), then cross the 2m distance to kill Minami without the Mantle catching on something.
Edit: Also, MC bonuses ought to apply.

Edit2: On second thought, maybe not MC bonus, it would be a tight fit.
So first things first. Let's deal with the mechanics.

Minami got no MC bonuses because they were cancelled out by Hōzuki's Mantle.

The other mechanical effect of Hōzuki's Mantle is to add melee dice, which is what killed Minami in the end. I chose to render that as the jōnin using the edge of the mantle to block, but it could just as easily have been, say, one of the random water tendrils lashing out and putting Minami off-balance.

Now, positioning. Bear in mind that you were facing a prepared jōnin. (Still not making a canon statement that she was a jōnin, incidentally, just using Hazō's frame of reference). She would have taken all the time she needed to plan out the battle, including where to stand, what her movement options would be, and how to arrange any furniture so it wouldn't get in her way.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Between the three of us, what does our team have in the way of tools that Hazou can quickly think of? How many of each type of seal?
This question has an enormous spoon requirement. We'll get back to you, and any kind soul who can find updates/statements on the subject in the meanwhile will be generously rewarded in the Pure Land.

Also, @eaglejarl I just thought of something: It's entirely possible that Kagome would have noticed something being up, and/or won initiative if he were here -- either case would work out very differently: Without having won initiative she wouldn't have gotten Hozuki's Mantle up, and would have had to attempt to Tac Move out of the way of a Kagome blast with full multicombat bonuses in his favor.
Things could well have gone differently with Kagome, though I note that at the point where you had six-on-one in a single room, we'd have considered reducing MC bonuses from the sheer confined space and people getting in each other's way. Especially if people had to manoeuvre around Kagome with his explosion-punching style. Bear in mind also that if the jōnin were looking at six potential opponents ready to attack her, she'd probably have opened with Hōzuki's Mantle instead.

With that said, if Kagome had made the Awareness roll and the jōnin had acted suboptimally and the jōnin had relatively low combat and TacMov, he could conceivably have injured or killed her.
 
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This question has an enormous spoon requirement. We'll get back to you, and any kind soul who can find updates/statements on the subject in the meanwhile will be generously rewarded in the Pure Land.
I believe we performed inventory a while ago (@faflec?), not entirely sure where. What's more important than the seals Hazou has that he can produce (I would be very surprised if he didn't have at least a few extras of each of those) are the ones that Kagome can and he can't; 5SB, LBF, etc.
 
[X] Action Plan: Blow this popsicle stand (Speed)
[X] Action Plan: Blow this popsicle stand (OPSEC)
This question has an enormous spoon requirement. We'll get back to you, and any kind soul who can find updates/statements on the subject in the meanwhile will be generously rewarded in the Pure Land.
How have you been handling seal use until now then? Not with some kind of inventory tally? Just with "Hazou and Kagome make a shitton of seals in their free time and so everyone has 'enough' for non game-breaking purposes"?
 
If the gas were a genjutsu the air purifier shouldn't have worked. Easy enough to find out one way or the other by investigating the purifier, though.

Yeah, you're right. I'd presumed that that could have been faked by someone who knows the capabilities of the purifier, but not if we check it later.
 
Now, positioning. Bear in mind that you were facing a prepared jōnin. (Still not making a canon statement that she was a jōnin, incidentally, just using Hazō's frame of reference). She would have taken all the time she needed to plan out the battle, including where to stand, what her movement options would be, and how to arrange any furniture so it wouldn't get in her way.

Minami: Melee Weapons ?d100 + ?d100 chakra boost, -3 dice A-class wound penalty, 0 MC bonus (Hōzuki's Mantle) vs Jōnin: Melee Weapons ?d100 +?d100 Hōzuki's Mantle

Our enemy didn't even chakra boost and killed Minami with ease. Sounds like a Jonin to me, I mean she didn't take us even that serious.
 
Jiraiya has really come through for us here, what a bro.
Minami had the leadership for this mission, including the decision to split the party.

[X] Action Plan: This was a Authentic Yakuza attack.
* We should not investigate further, or try to raise others suspicions.
* Dispell any techniques
* Explode sidewall
* Misterate, check for lifesigns
* Drain them if at ninja chakra levels.​
* Police any seals/gear/bodies this started because of a lack of OPSEC, lets not make it worse.
* Explode the scene
* Exfiltrating to the randevú point (obeying no airwalker orders).
* If not at the meeting place, move to their delivery location.​
* Inform our leader of this incident via summons.
* Finish the mission.
* Return to Leaf.
* In the meeting with Jiraiya, drop lots of winks and nose touches while emphasising just how terrible our TL dying was.


I didn't expect the community and QMs to go for smaller less detailed plans. Then the second time it gets implemented we suffer our first team death.

Meh, we had very little agency in the teams actions. Im not sure what you expected here? Overpower Minami and institute our own methods to complete the mission?
 
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@Velorien @OliWhail @eaglejarl Important questions: do clones get the same amount of actions as normal ninjas? How does clone initiative work? What happens when large area effects such as syrup trap are stacked, creating an obstacle to large to avoid but with skill rolls otherwise too low to hit? Would an enemy ninja be granted a dodge if syrup traps were placed to surround them rather than to hit them?
Respectively:
Yes.
Same as anyone else.
From a mechanical perspective, we might provide circumstance bonuses but we wouldn't make it a 100% win. Consider that, e.g., small terrain variances will create 'shadowed' areas where the ST doesn't hit unless you're careful, and a skilled enemy could hopscotch across those areas.
Most likely we would stash the number rolled for the ST and the enemy would roll against that when they tried to cross the zone.


Can Noburi use water whip with water in his line of sight or manifest water with chakra within his line of sight but outside of the Air Dome? If so we could try and clean the air of poison using the water, or manipulate latches to open doors to allow for airflow to reduce the presence of poison in the area. Do we have a solid enough connection to the ground to make use of MEW to fortify our position/destroy the foundations of the building to let in clean air. We are going to be observed while doing anything so putting up MEW would work to our advantage by blocking the prepared line of sight of the people attacking us.
Noburi cannot manifest Water Whip outside the dome, but good idea. He needs to be touching the water in order to create the Whip construct from real water, and if he's creating a chakra construct then it always creates itself from his hand outwards.
WW lacks the precision to manipulate latches.
Yes, you could create MEW outside the dome. You would be creating it on top of a wooden floor so it would be a chakra construct, but you can definitely do it. You are not touching the earth itself so you cannot create the MEW under the floorboards.


Lets try and solve the problem killing us right now and figure out the who and whys later. What do we know about buildings made for Chakra monster attacks, and can we pinpoint where the poison is coming from in case we need to deal with a seal or some other delivery method. What can Noburi sign to us about how we are being poisoned and what options we have to counter it. Should we have our lungs flushed out with activated charcoal & water? Would the fact that the antidote was administered via liquid help Noburi pinpoint they type of poison so that he can treat himself and then Hazou?

You don't know much about architecture or home construction of any kind.
You have no idea where the poison is coming from, but it's apparently a gas so it will be spread throughout the room.
Noburi doesn't need to sign, the two of you can talk perfectly well.
The effects of the poison are not getting worse and the Usumatsu's Glorious Life-Saving Purifier will clear it out from the area under the dome. Noburi suspects that if the poison doesn't kill you in the next couple of minutes then you'll probably be fine.
He has no idea what the antidote was or what the poison is.


Oh, before I forget, @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail, did Hazou and Noburi get an extra Thousand Yard Stare level from seeing our team leader ruthlessly killed in front of us?
Nope, sorry. After having your arm drenched in blood and brains to the shoulder by punching through someone's head, and dealing with insane biosealmistresses nearly killing your sweetheart in particularly gruesome ways, and having to participate in a massacre of helpless civilians...well, you're sad about Minami's death but it isn't going to make your Top Five Worst Moments list.


But if Hazou is at Medium Distance from Bosatsu and Ken, and Bosatsu and Ken are both at Close Distance to each other, Hazou moving to Close Distance with Ken wouldn't mean he's also moving to Close Distance with Bosatsu.
At least that's how I'm interpreting the rules.
As currently written, that is correct. It probably shouldn't be that way, though. If you're at melee range with Charlie and I close distance with you then I should also be closing with Charlie. I'll talk to the others about it. Thanks for pointing this out.

I just thought of something.
When we get back, we should research Featherfall Seals (seals that prevent you from taking fall-damage while you wear them). They're a super-useful safety feature for skywalkers.
@eaglejarl
How hard does Hazou the character think they would be to research? (Edit: Just ballpark, I won't hold you to it.)
Difficult to the point of not knowing where to start. Making seals that require judgement is very hard -- "is there something crossing through this invisible chakra beam" is straightforward to design (which is not the same as easy) but "am I within X distance of the ground and moving towards it and moving fast enough that I would get hurt if I hit and not doing so intentionally for some reason" is extremely complicated. If you check the idea with Kagome he will throw his hands in the air, implore the kami for an explanation of what he ever did to them to have such a student inflicted upon him, lecture you for an hour on the implications of seventeenth-dimensional tensor deconvolution as applied to differential diffraction matrices (a lecture of which you understand some of the words and none of the sentences) before making you write "I will not ever ever ever ever ever do something that requires making seals make decisions because that's bonkers and seals are evil and just want to eat your face if you give them any leeway at all which is why I will never ever ever try to make seals that make decisions, I pinky swear" ten thousand times.
 
Number one rule that anyone who's ever experienced combat with a sealmaster learns fast: Don't fuck with them if you have even the slightest option not to.

Of course, I meant that she hasn't really done a lot to kill one of us and inflict B-class wounds to both Noburi and Hazou. She was prepared and decided to retreat once she saw that she is fighting unknown seals. Still wasn't a hard fight for her and she achieved her goals, that was my point.
 
If you check the idea with Kagome he will throw his hands in the air, implore the kami for an explanation of what he ever did to them to have such a student inflicted upon him, lecture you for an hour on the implications of seventeenth-dimensional tensor deconvolution as applied to differential diffraction matrices (a lecture of which you understand some of the words and none of the sentences) before making you write "I will not ever ever ever ever ever do something that requires making seals make decisions because that's bonkers and seals are evil and just want to eat your face if you give them any leeway at all which is why I will never ever ever try to make seals that make decisions, I pinky swear" ten thousand times.
God, Kagome really is the best waifu.
 
You could just pulse chakra across a chakra beam to send data.

But why do you want a semaphore system in a place that has computers and networks?
Neither of those exist in MfD.

e: Also careful you don't set the QMs off with talk like that -- I'm pretty sure Kishimoto's given them PTSD comparable to Kagome.
 
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