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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Kei being 100% rational its impossible anyways, 3 was only 4 people(before shadow clone) that toching did not freak her out instantly, Ami, Tenten, Hazou, and Mari.
And mary betrayed her on a fundamental level.
The problem is that hazou 1st instinc is fix it, but he truly canot.

Hazou is fine on Kei's view at this point she knows him well enough that blaming him for something like that doest even register anymore.
 
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MrRobot said:
Kei being 100% rational its impossible anyways, 3 was only 4 people(before shadow clone) that toching did not freak her out instantly, Ami, Tenten, Hazou, and Mari.
And mary betrayed her on a fundamental level.
The problem is that hazou 1st instinc is fix it, but he truly canot.

Hazou is fine on Kei's view at this point she knows him well enough that blaming him for something like that doest even register anymore.
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Velorien said:
"Hazō," Keiko looked him in the eyes, seated uncomfortably within the Air Dome some distance from the Shimura compound (she had tried pacing nervously, but there really wasn't enough room). "Tell me, what would you do if it was necessary to betray one person's trust to save another?"

"Keiko, if you're about to tell me you're asking for a friend, I'm going to lower my estimation of your intelligence to Noburi's level."

Keiko raised an eyebrow. "Somehow, that feels offensive to both of us."

"That's what siblings are for," Hazō said. "Just trying to lighten the mood."

Keiko did not dignify this with a response.

"Answer me, Hazō."

He didn't hesitate.

"All else being equal, obviously I'd betray the trust," Hazō said. "Trust is something you can rebuild. I don't know what 'saving' someone might mean, though I have some guesses, but it tends to be something permanent. That, or failing to save someone will result in something permanent. For example, Uplift means saving the world. The difference between a world that's been saved and a world that keeps going as it is is so huge that yes, I think I'd betray all kinds of trust if I was confident that it was the only way."
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Especially since she knows he'd have done the exact same.
 
Allow me to join in on the apparent thread tradition of screaming loudly at updates.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Now onto actual thinking.
Kei has a legitimate grievance and an underlying worldview that makes resolving that grievance, frankly, nigh-impossible.

We can't solve this. It's in Akane's jurisdiction if it's in anyone's at all. That, or a therapist's. Honestly it should probably be a therapist's job first, and then Akane's, but we don't really...have any link to them.
 
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Unaligned Player said:
Wouldn't worry about that too much. This isn't a case of Keiko being actually upset with the actions themselves. This is a case of her being really irrational and petty, knowing that, and not caring, because it's Mari. We haven't earned her ire that much.
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Unaligned Player said:
Especially since she knows he'd have done the exact same.
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I mean, I agree with you in the sense that Kei is being irrational here, but I wouldn't go so far as to call her out as being petty about things. Just because she understands and agrees that Mari's actions were the objectively correct choice doesn't mean that she therefore doesn't have the right to be angry about it, and/or not want to associate with Mari for doing so. I certainly would be.
 
faflec said:
I mean, I agree with you in the sense that Kei is being irrational here, but I wouldn't go so far as to call her out as being petty about things. Just because she understands and agrees that Mari's actions were the objectively correct choice doesn't mean that she therefore doesn't have the right to be angry about it, and/or not want to associate with Mari for doing so. I certainly would be.
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Having the full right to be mad about something and being petty are not mutually exclusive things.
 
faflec said:
Then I fail to understand how Kei's actions could be considered petty in this situation, and would ask you to explain things to me.
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Because she's not doing this for any reason. This entire thing of "this is the straw that broke the camels back" is a lie she says to cover up that it's an excuse to stay away and be angry, and that she could have gotten her tea wrong and the result would have been the same.

Does she have the right to be angry and never want to see her again? Yes.

Is she being really petty in attempting to make her anger look reasonable, and push the blame on Mari when she could just say "I detest her existence and cannot be around her because of our history." ? For something she readily admits she wouldn't be mad at Hazou for? Also yes.
 
TheBiggerFish said:
Allow me to join in on the apparent thread tradition of screaming loudly at updates.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Now onto actual thinking.
Kei has a legitimate grievance and an underlying worldview that makes resolving that grievance, frankly, nigh-impossible.

We can't solve this. It's in Akane's jurisdiction if it's in anyone's at all. That, or a therapist's. Honestly it should probably be a therapist's job first, and then Akane's, but we don't really...have any link to them.
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Welcome!

It's been a pleasure watching you work through the updates at terrifying speed. How did you find us?

Unaligned Player said:
Having the full right to be mad about something and being petty are not mutually exclusive things.
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Honestly, your usage of "petty" as a word confuses me here. Irrespective of whether Kei is being rational or not etc., is it possible to be petty about a matter of life and death?
 
Unaligned Player said:
Because she's not doing this for any reason. This entire thing of "this is the straw that broke the camels back" is a lie she says to cover up that it's an excuse to stay away and be angry, and that she could have gotten her tea wrong and the result would have been the same.

Does she have the right to be angry and never want to see her again? Yes.

Is she being really petty in attempting to make her anger look reasonable, and push the blame on Mari when she could just say "I detest her existence and cannot be around her because of our history." ? For something she readily admits she wouldn't be mad at Hazou for? Also yes.
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Mari literally chose to trade her life for Hazou's. In the context of getting on Orochimaru's radar and (very plausibly) ending up in his Basement. I feel that this isn't anything near comparable to "Mari getting Kei's tea wrong".

I mean honestly, if Kei was being petty about things I would have expected her to have absolutely blown up at Hazou and demanded reprisals for what Mari did. By comparison, she's basically saying "I understand why Mari did this and I accept the reasoning, but I'm still really really hurt by it and I do not think I can associate with her anymore". From my perspective Kei is being completely reasonable in doing this (though admittedly I feel that she's just formalizing the preexisting status quo).
Unaligned Player said:
Yup, it's called "Complaining About Rescues You Don't Like".
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You realize that the only reason Kei needed to be rescued in the first place was because Mari literally put her on Orochimaru's radar, right? The guy didn't give any fucks about her before Mari started talking about cognitively-independent Shadow Clones.
 
@faflec I'd accept all of those things if it weren't for the fact that she admitted that if Hazou had done all those things, she wouldn't be mad. The simple act of it not being Mari makes those actions in her eyes not utterly reprehensible. The conclusion I gather from that is that it's just an excuse to be mad at Mari and leave.
 
Unaligned Player said:
@faflec I'd accept all of those things if it weren't for the fact that she admitted that if Hazou had done all those things, she wouldn't be mad. The simple act of it not being Mari makes those actions in her eyes not utterly reprehensible. The conclusion I gather from that is that it's just an excuse to be mad at Mari and leave.
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Velorien said:
"You showed me another way, Hazō. Even Ami was unable to shift the will of the clan at large, but you gave me a life where my value was unconditional. You came back for me, you chose to risk your life against the Liberator's finest in order to save me, and though the voices in my mind whisper that Akane and Noburi were your true priorities, I know now that is not who you are. Even if one day you choose to sacrifice me for the sake of Uplift, it will be with tears in your eyes, not as a result of efficient resource distribution."
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Is this the quote with which you are referring to?
 
Unaligned Player said:
Correct. Along with my earlier qoute showing that she has known for a while that Hazou would do the same. Type away.
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I never got the impression from that particular quote, nor from your previous quote (this one?) that Kei wouldn't be mad at Hazou for doing so. From the quotes she seems to be accepting of his practicality and/or understanding that he wouldn't be making such a choice lightly. From my perspective, at no point is she making the claim that she would not get angry at Hazou for doing so, just that she would be accepting of the decision (as the rational choice or similar).
 
Thinking about it, I'm a little nervous about how Hazō's projected builds leave him very weak to surprise attacks. We should start thinking about hiring a combat summon to have in the Human Path guarding Hazō at all times. We'd need to find and contract a powerful dog that is willing to stay summoned for long amounts of time, which may take some time. Ideally we'd have a rotation of multiple guards, but that should wait until we have at least one.

We only have one combat summon right now and I'm not sure he's a good fit.
 
TheBiggerFish said:
Link from elsewhere on the forum, as it happens.
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It's nice to meet you, welcome to Marked for Death!! ^.^

_The_Bomb said:
We should start thinking about hiring a combat summon to have in the Human Path guarding Hazō at all times.
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I'm not sure that's a viable idea... Between chakra cost and the narrative complications (what Dog would want to be away from the Human Path 24/7, after all?) I don't think we could pull it off. I suspect it'd be easier to make a seal that boosts Alertness a la chakdar.

_The_Bomb said:
We only have one combat summon right now and I'm not sure he's a good fit.
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We also have Cantelever(?), the Sun Element Doggo who wanted to elope with his lover, but was disciplined by Cannai. The playerbase made a joke about aerial bombardment, iirc.
 
faflec said:
Kei's perspective is definitely not 100% rational, did you notice her bitterness at being sacrificed for the well-being of a preferred sibling? That's a lot of resentment being aimed at Hazo for being more valuable, and it brings to mind parallels between Kei's relationship with Ami and how the clan treated the two of them.
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Agreed, I don't think this is actually what Mari thinks, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe it either. Basically it's just I don't think Kei is being a huge idiot dumb dumb here and some of the opinions I'm seeing are like "wow Kei is being so ridiculous here" (I'm being hyperbolic but yeah) She's making a less than perfectly accurate decision but I feel like in the spectrum of "completely unreasonable" to "100% accurate" I think her behavior is, all things considered, not THAT close to former.
 
_The_Bomb said:
Thinking about it, I'm a little nervous about how Hazō's projected builds leave him very weak to surprise attacks. We should start thinking about hiring a combat summon to have in the Human Path guarding Hazō at all times. We'd need to find and contract a powerful dog that is willing to stay summoned for long amounts of time, which may take some time. Ideally we'd have a rotation of multiple guards, but that should wait until we have at least one.

We only have one combat summon right now and I'm not sure he's a good fit.
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This is a real pain in the ass with chakra constraints, and also ever finding that dog. Each Summon needs 1/3 of its cost in upkeep every hour, so if we get an experienced dog in the 175 cp range we can never go more than 4 hours without seeing Noburi. Which means this is useless in the field when we need to conserve chakra. At home it's still not great but it's sorta workable. As long as we don't have the Summon out when Hazou is sleeping.

Then we need to find a special jounin (at least) level Dog that's cool with abandoning their entire life to serve as Hazou's bodyguard. That's a pretty big ask, not easy to find somedog like that, and the pool of Dogs that are strong enough is less than 100 individuals. There might be no options
 
Another alternative is to just go live 24/7 with the Dogs instead of making the Dogs live 24/7 with us.

Or we could blow Hazou up so nobody can surprise attack him.
 
_The_Bomb said:
Thinking about it, I'm a little nervous about how Hazō's projected builds leave him very weak to surprise attacks. We should start thinking about hiring a combat summon to have in the Human Path guarding Hazō at all times. We'd need to find and contract a powerful dog that is willing to stay summoned for long amounts of time, which may take some time. Ideally we'd have a rotation of multiple guards, but that should wait until we have at least one.

We only have one combat summon right now and I'm not sure he's a good fit.
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It would be better to keep a puppy around at all times and just reverse summon at the first sign of trouble. And we've got plenty of those on contract
 
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