- Location
- United States
Last edited:
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- USA
Two todos for the QMs on XP:
SC Training from last update
OOC XP bonus not yet awarded to Kei, Noburi, and Akane
SC Training from last update
OOC XP bonus not yet awarded to Kei, Noburi, and Akane
- Location
- Yes.
Soo...did Kei ever tell Mari that she doesn't want to be a tool anymore?
(I am not a psychologist, and also this is definitely not painting a full picture of a very complicated social situation between two individuals who have independently been through a lot, on top of their own social dynamics being even more complicated)
This seems like one of those situations where the characters could start to address their problems if they would just get into the same room and talk honestly to each other (which is very unlikely to happen on numerous fronts for a multitude of reasons, some justified and some just characters being set in their ways. Also, ninja)
This seems like one of those situations where the characters could start to address their problems if they would just get into the same room and talk honestly to each other (which is very unlikely to happen on numerous fronts for a multitude of reasons, some justified and some just characters being set in their ways. Also, ninja)
- Location
- United States
That might honestly cheer Mari up.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
KEI: "She's the social spec! She should've known!"
- Location
- Europe
Yet Kagome is the only one with a happy child/student right now. Maybe we let him "fix" this mess.
What's the worst that could happen?
Last edited:
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
To "fix" mari and kei situation, to be honest this is harder than bring back the dead.
It would need the un-fucking of mari's mind.
Then she recognizes how bad she fucked up with kei.
Then she would need to trow her training out of the fucking window and apologize Hazou style, and keep trying to made up.
Then we would pray the out to jashin that Kei do not dismisses Mari.
Sufice to say the situation is fucked.
Also Hazou have no input on this chain of event outside the nebulous "help mari get better".
It would need the un-fucking of mari's mind.
Then she recognizes how bad she fucked up with kei.
Then she would need to trow her training out of the fucking window and apologize Hazou style, and keep trying to made up.
Then we would pray the out to jashin that Kei do not dismisses Mari.
Sufice to say the situation is fucked.
Also Hazou have no input on this chain of event outside the nebulous "help mari get better".
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
I'm starting to wonder if the Orochimaru opening scene where he asked Hazō if he had decontaminated the octocats was motivated by really really not wanting Sunny to go after him?
ORO: *makes something that could spread disease if mishandled*
ORO: *reflexively dodges*
ORO: Ah, right. She's not there.
ORO: *makes something that could spread disease if mishandled*
ORO: *reflexively dodges*
ORO: Ah, right. She's not there.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
...You know. Kagome is a man with hidden depths. We've seen him be vulnerable, emotionally mature, and downright parental around both Honoka and Hazou. Kagome's perspective might genuinely be one worth pursuing.
My thoughts on the Mari-Keiko situation. We should respect Kei's choice not to have a relationship with Mari. We gotta respect other people's choices even if they are bizarre and petty. Just don't ask them to be in the same room together, and never mention Mari to Kei. It should be fine, for some definition of fine.
Kei has consistently demonstrated willingness to work with Mari when lives are on the line, there isn't really anything else we can ask of her.
Kei has consistently demonstrated willingness to work with Mari when lives are on the line, there isn't really anything else we can ask of her.
- Location
- Yes.
[X] Run away to the woods again
Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
Jiraiya " wish fulfillment, what's that?" Gouketsu strikes again.
- Location
- how about no
I'll preface all of this by saying that I am not a trained professional WRT psychology nor any of its related fields. The following is just, like, my opinion man.
Bruh, if my SO's love language was biting I'd try to ethically condition her to something less painful. Don't let her escalate to the point where a neutral third party would consider it physical abuse.
Sorry if this is unwanted advice. I've had somewhat similar circumstances and this is what I learned from those experiences. If present-me could give this advice to past-me I would.
As long as you make the effort to build trust there is still hope of a better tomorrow, no matter how bleak your past has been. That sounds like a movie line cliché though, so here's something more actionable than 'keep on trucking, durr durr durr':
Trust should not be viewed as an object to either build or destroy, but as a value that can increase or decrease based on others' actions and reactions. As an imperfect analogy, trust can be viewed like the water held back by a dam. Many small yet incremental things have to go right for the water to safely stay behind the dam but one seemingly insignificant error on the dam's part can result in all of the water rushing out. This is not the fault of the water, your trust, but the environment in which the water built up behind.
The good news is that you now have the ability to choose where you flow. You get to decide which areas you want to invest yourself in and which dams you want to lean against. Verify which dams will have leaks. Look for structural faults and incompatibilities to make sure they can handle supporting you once you really put some weight against them.
From the limited information I've read about your experiences here, I would tentatively say that Doctrinaires are one source of significant discordance. Speaking from personal experience, people whose existence and self expression defy an orthodox environment causes eventual incompatibilities. Doctrine can help some people who frankly are not smart enough to figure out complex moral conundrums on their own, but rigid adherence leads to conflicts when their tenets demand certain actions yet they are not able to articulate nor even formulate why.
In my past, it was a terrible feeling when, after being praised for developing skills for years, those same skills were then criticized for being applied to unquestionable "truths". It's like they lit a fire, constantly fed it more and more fuel, and then they were surprised and angry that the flames began to consume the wooden scaffolding they were standing on.
Unintentional, or perhaps well-intentioned, gaslighting as a means to stop the spread of the metaphorical fire still sucks though.
However, I don't mean to make this a tragic backstory competition, but as a way to hopefully convey that while our pasts have different specific events and severities, we both have found our way here to a better, more understanding, more accepting environment.
So, on my sole behalf (if others want to chime in, feel free (I don't want to presume))...
Welcome wholeheartedly to the MfD thread and the hivemind, @Lailoken . Come as you are and the people here will accept you as you are.
Bruh, if my SO's love language was biting I'd try to ethically condition her to something less painful. Don't let her escalate to the point where a neutral third party would consider it physical abuse.
Sorry if this is unwanted advice. I've had somewhat similar circumstances and this is what I learned from those experiences. If present-me could give this advice to past-me I would.
As long as you make the effort to build trust there is still hope of a better tomorrow, no matter how bleak your past has been. That sounds like a movie line cliché though, so here's something more actionable than 'keep on trucking, durr durr durr':
Trust should not be viewed as an object to either build or destroy, but as a value that can increase or decrease based on others' actions and reactions. As an imperfect analogy, trust can be viewed like the water held back by a dam. Many small yet incremental things have to go right for the water to safely stay behind the dam but one seemingly insignificant error on the dam's part can result in all of the water rushing out. This is not the fault of the water, your trust, but the environment in which the water built up behind.
The good news is that you now have the ability to choose where you flow. You get to decide which areas you want to invest yourself in and which dams you want to lean against. Verify which dams will have leaks. Look for structural faults and incompatibilities to make sure they can handle supporting you once you really put some weight against them.
From the limited information I've read about your experiences here, I would tentatively say that Doctrinaires are one source of significant discordance. Speaking from personal experience, people whose existence and self expression defy an orthodox environment causes eventual incompatibilities. Doctrine can help some people who frankly are not smart enough to figure out complex moral conundrums on their own, but rigid adherence leads to conflicts when their tenets demand certain actions yet they are not able to articulate nor even formulate why.
In my past, it was a terrible feeling when, after being praised for developing skills for years, those same skills were then criticized for being applied to unquestionable "truths". It's like they lit a fire, constantly fed it more and more fuel, and then they were surprised and angry that the flames began to consume the wooden scaffolding they were standing on.
Unintentional, or perhaps well-intentioned, gaslighting as a means to stop the spread of the metaphorical fire still sucks though.
However, I don't mean to make this a tragic backstory competition, but as a way to hopefully convey that while our pasts have different specific events and severities, we both have found our way here to a better, more understanding, more accepting environment.
So, on my sole behalf (if others want to chime in, feel free (I don't want to presume))...
Welcome wholeheartedly to the MfD thread and the hivemind, @Lailoken . Come as you are and the people here will accept you as you are.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
"Explosives are the correct tool for every situation! I'll show them who has 'a tactically crippled mind' when they have an explosively crippled everything!"
... On second thought, maybe we should ask around for a second opinion, just to be sure
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
Does not compute - to oversimplify a complex question full of nuance and shorten it to a not-too-long post, "helping someone with an issue" is distinct from "manipulating"; and "ethically conditioning" sounds like doing the latter while claiming the former, all the while dodging the important distinction between the two, being consent
Last edited:
do we think Mari has processed what this means as well??
Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
i really, really want to wash our hands from the whole problem. hazou is much like kagome in certain ways.
Hazou never had a family (whit several members) and now that he has one he loves them more than reason would dictate; even if he has to measure up to a sanin and face certain death in order to save a loved one, he will do it (he in fact tried to do it). so I don't think he has the capacity to put himself in Keiko's (and snoflakes) shoes. if the situation was reversed and mary had thrown him to orochimaru to save keiko and preserve his dreams of uplift he would build her a statue for her quick thinking and selfless nature.
i believe mary reds them as a way to both vicariously be whit jiraiya and to dwell in the mind of the only other person who she knows was in a situation similar to her own. two seduction specialists who bedded their way around the elemental nations and for circumstances of life were made into the parents of their wonderful children.
mary found the equal she yearned for, the only person she couldn't reliable manipulate, yet love her back and lost him almost immediately
Hazou never had a family (whit several members) and now that he has one he loves them more than reason would dictate; even if he has to measure up to a sanin and face certain death in order to save a loved one, he will do it (he in fact tried to do it). so I don't think he has the capacity to put himself in Keiko's (and snoflakes) shoes. if the situation was reversed and mary had thrown him to orochimaru to save keiko and preserve his dreams of uplift he would build her a statue for her quick thinking and selfless nature.
well, it was icha icha four the series was very long-running.
i believe mary reds them as a way to both vicariously be whit jiraiya and to dwell in the mind of the only other person who she knows was in a situation similar to her own. two seduction specialists who bedded their way around the elemental nations and for circumstances of life were made into the parents of their wonderful children.
mary found the equal she yearned for, the only person she couldn't reliable manipulate, yet love her back and lost him almost immediately
Last edited:
- Location
- how about no
The solution is conceptually simple, but difficult to enact.
The world is the problem.
Imagine a world where people had to find shelter instead building their own. Is it a moral failing for a mother choosing to shelter one child over another when there is only room for one child and exposing herself would mean everyone would die since the children are not old enough to fend for themselves?
We will not have Kei and Mari forgive each other while the cold calculus demands that Mari make hard decisions when she is under duress. It's out duty as creative problem solvers to find a way to change the equation so that such scenarios never occur again.
We must reject keeping the world as it is in favor of finding a way to make it better suit our needs, to make the world what it should be.
We've already done the impossible once and it resulted in us becoming a major political faction in Leaf from our humble origins as Mist cannon fodder. We need to stress to both Kei and Mari that we are not done yet and that we understand that they need time apart before we can fulfill another such promise. However, we also need to emphasize that we will never give up on them reconciling with one another because one day we will find a way for both of them to come to the conclusion that they want and can truly become a family, not reluctant allies, again.
Impossible is temporary.
Family is forever.
I can imagine Keiko hearing this and being unmoved. Does she not know the true nature of the world? Is she not cynical and wise? I would argue that she isn't, since she wants Mari to make bad plays out of passion rather than play the numbers. But Kei's self image is contrary to that, and arguments that run contrary to people's self images are rarely convincing.
Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
No, let them to their own devices, if we say to keiko that our ultimate objective is for her and mary to reconcile and therefore act against her wishes, it could only end up in disaster. the best he can do at this moment is the thing he has been doing since the swamp, be an emotional pillar for both and let them sort themselves out.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hm. Maybe, maybe not. We know that the Second Isan Arc forced Kei to confront her nihilism and depression. We know that Kei is undergoing a sort of proto-therapy with Akane to be "guided back into the light." If we could get Akane in the same room as Kei and Hazou when the conversation happens, maybe Akane can help?
- Location
- how about no
Communication is the first step, outlining why a particular behavior causes strife and ascertaining why the SO does so and why it makes the aggrieved party sad in the first place.
Next comes asking, but not manipulating nor coercing, for consent provided that the other person wants to change. If they don't want to stop and one cannot learn to accept it themselves it's time to break up amicably.
Then it's a matter of cooperatively finding ways to promote mutually agreeable behaviors. For example, giving small candies whenever they do something better, even when they know it's basic Pavlovian methodology, can still help.
Throughout the whole process, communication and consent have to be reaffirmed over and over again. In a nutshell, I would say ethical conditioning means treating all parties involved with respect for their personhood and where possible as equals. When it comes to a relationship everything should additionally be done as equals (children and pets are the main exceptions which is why I don't include pure equality in my definition of ethical conditioning).
I don't think (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that @Dictator4Hire's point was necessarily counter to yours, it's just a matter of timescales