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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
So...to be clear...Hazou isn't a subject of immediate interest?
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He has been given no specific reason to think he is...or to think that he is not.

Inferno Vulpix said:
So, to be clear, the intended takeaway of this meeting is that Mari thinks Hazou will certainly die if he volunteers, Hazou agrees, and therefore both of them agree that volunteering isn't an option? There's a small logical disconnect between what I read and this expected takeaway and given the importance of the topic I think it's important that this is as clear as possible.
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This got dealt with on Discord but to close the loop: Nope, nothing was intended about survival odds.

FaintlySorcerous said:
'What about the other clans' and 'perhaps the other clans' seems like a potential editing oversight?
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It's a little clumsy, yeah. The point was that Noburi threw it in as a passing thought but then focused on ISC whereas Yuno wanted to focus on the other clans.

Veedrac said:
Here's one suggested way of modelling things more concretely, that answers some of these questions. Elemental Mastery creates a zone. As gaseous molecules enter the zone, or as the zone fades in during casting, they gain or lose energy equal to the temperature delta. As gaseous molecules leave the zone, or as the zone fades out when casting ends and the temperature drifts back to normal, they gain or lose energy opposite to the temperature delta. Liquids and solids are unaffected. (I advise making the border have some width, to avoid instantaneous velocity changes, though it might not matter.)
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Thank you, that sounds lovely. I'm bushed after the update but will take this down for further discussion.
OliWhail said:
Yes, "decimate": make into one-tenth :p
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Don't make me come over there, water mammal.

FaintlySorcerous said:
On those grounds, she will be entirely protected from any retaliation on his part. We are willing, once, to overlook the fact that he used his aura on her.
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Note that Mari has not actually told anyone that she got aura'd.

huhYeahGoodPoint said:
It's January. I don't know what the exact temperature of Leaf is, but if it's snowing I think we should be hanging out around the single digit Celsius, if not outright negative Celsius.
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Average is about 0C day / -8C night. This is OOC information since there are no good thermometers in-universe.
 
Mmm, I'm thinking sealing failure effects are somewhat correlated with the actual seals that are failing, right? Or, at least, some vague direction of their esoteric effects is influenced by the nature of the failing seal, as well as any seals that are nearby (I distinctly recall Kagome fretting about that). Right?

What I'm thinking is, we grab a ton of Wakahisa and Chakdar seals, wrap them around a 20-SIN tangle, hook the thing up to a timed explosive, then drop it on Oro's compound and make ourselves scarce. The 20-SIN produces a failure, which then chains up with the Wakahisa and Chakdar seals, ideally nudging the failure's effect towards the chakra-related and proximity-based. The whole thing then, if we're lucky, starts to... adversarially affect any nearby chakra signatures, which happen to be primarily Orochimaru himself. Chakra effects seem pretty esoteric and fundamental, and if Oro gets tagged with something like the Blotch, except even worse, he might not have a ready answer for that, and it might even circumvent his immortality.

Better yet: do we have access to any Orochimaru-infused seals? Does he sell them to the Tower, say? If we do, we buy out as many of them as we can, then add them all to the SIN, so that there's a particular chakra signature saturating the environment the failure is happening in.

And if you think this idea is insane, need I remind you that Jashin is provably on our side, and His is the will behind the failures? He shall aid us, if we but allow Him to.

I think this is all a pretty sensible contingency plan, all things considered!
 
Noumero said:
Mmm, I'm thinking sealing failure effects are somewhat correlated with the actual seals that are failing, right? Or, at least, some vague direction of their esoteric effects is influenced by the nature of the failing seal, as well as any seals that are nearby (I distinctly recall Kagome fretting about that). Right?

What I'm thinking is, we grab a ton of Wakahisa and Chakdar seals, wrap them around a 20-SIN tangle, hook the thing up to a timed explosive, then drop it on Oro's compound and make ourselves scarce. The 20-SIN produces a failure, which then chains up with the Wakahisa and Chakdar seals, ideally nudging the failure's effect towards the chakra-related and proximity-based. The whole thing then, if we're lucky, starts to... adversarially affect any nearby chakra signatures, which happen to be primarily Orochimaru himself. Chakra effects seem pretty esoteric and fundamental, and if Oro gets tagged with something like the Blotch, except even worse, he might not have a ready answer for that, and it might even circumvent his immortality.

Better yet: do we have access to any Orochimaru-infused seals? Does he sell them to the Tower, say? If we do, we buy out as many of them as we can, then add them all to the SIN, so that there's a particular chakra signature saturating the environment the failure is happening in.

And if you think this idea is insane, need I remind you that Jashin is provably on our side, and His is the will behind the failures? He shall aid us, if we but allow Him to.

I think this is all a pretty sensible contingency plan, all things considered!
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Kagome will outright murder us if we propose weaponizing a seal failure on that scale, and we have to tell him in order to get SINs.
 
Noumero said:
Mmm, I'm thinking sealing failure effects are somewhat correlated with the actual seals that are failing, right? Or, at least, some vague direction of their esoteric effects is influenced by the nature of the failing seal, as well as any seals that are nearby (I distinctly recall Kagome fretting about that). Right?

What I'm thinking is, we grab a ton of Wakahisa and Chakdar seals, wrap them around a 20-SIN tangle, hook the thing up to a timed explosive, then drop it on Oro's compound and make ourselves scarce. The 20-SIN produces a failure, which then chains up with the Wakahisa and Chakdar seals, ideally nudging the failure's effect towards the chakra-related and proximity-based. The whole thing then, if we're lucky, starts to... adversarially affect any nearby chakra signatures, which happen to be primarily Orochimaru himself. Chakra effects seem pretty esoteric and fundamental, and if Oro gets tagged with something like the Blotch, except even worse, he might not have a ready answer for that, and it might even circumvent his immortality.

Better yet: do we have access to any Orochimaru-infused seals? Does he sell them to the Tower, say? If we do, we buy out as many of them as we can, then add them all to the SIN, so that there's a particular chakra signature saturating the environment the failure is happening in.

And if you think this idea is insane, need I remind you that Jashin is provably on our side, and His is the will behind the failures? He shall aid us, if we but allow Him to.

I think this is all a pretty sensible contingency plan, all things considered!
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faflec said:
Kagome will outright murder us if we propose weaponizing a seal failure on that scale, and we have to tell him in order to get SINs.
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[The Watchers have entered the chat]
 
faflec said:
Kagome will outright murder us if we propose weaponizing a seal failure on that scale, and we have to tell him in order to get SINs.
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But it's to protect the family! And we have no realistic alternatives! I think he'll scream a lot but ultimately agree.
RandomOTP said:
[The Watchers have entered the chat]
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Noumero said:
... Are Naught but the Name Weak Sealmasters Give to Their Own Cowardice
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Guys I love the energy. Actively plotting to kill an essei or threatening to burn down the entire village are totally things that I am for just as a matter of principle.

But let me just say as the probably the least risk averse player here I think these are all terrible ideas. There is an easy out of just leaving. We can get permission and then we can start actively plotting how we will kill Oro without him potentially murdering us at any time
 
eaglejarl said:
It honestly took me a minute to realize that you meant the seals on the barrels used by the Wakahisa family, not actual human members of the Wakahisa family.
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I mean we could probably do those too but we'd have to grab them and at that point we could just gift-wrap them for Orochimaru in exchange for him not kidnapping us.
 
Man, you all are taking me way more seriously than I'd intended. I mean, I wasn't joking, but I'd meant for it to be taken as a joke, so that when I later start arguing for a lesser version of the idea in earnest, it looks all familiar and by comparison restrained. But it seems you know what to expect from me at this point. Curses.
 
faflec said:
I mean we could probably do those too but we'd have to grab them and at that point we could just gift-wrap them for Orochimaru in exchange for him not kidnapping us.
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"I will tell you the same thing I told Jiraiya, nephew: women do not magically become more interesting than laboratory research just because they are dressed only in ribbons."
 
I'll have a plan up, but I think earth shaper is our way out of this. Instead of making Mari a liar, we'll make it so that we are the real liar here. What happened wasn't that Hazo looked at the Great Seal and got mind-whammied. What happened is that he was attacked by the dragon's psychic attack. But Hazo also tried infusing his chakra into the Great Seal with a bastardized jutsu combining elements of living roots and Earth wall. A jutsu crafted with absolutely no skill in technique hacking.

Basically, we are a very lucky and suicidal ninja.
eaglejarl said:
"Apparently, it was a bad idea to try to store the most epically powerful seal anyone's ever heard of into your bloodline. Who would have thought?" She raised a hand to cut him off. "Akane told me. Don't worry, no one will ever hear it from me. Not Asuma, not anyone. I swear on my honor as a medic."
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We also have Tsunade's word that no one knows how we were able to record the seal. So we can fabricated our story using what we know below.
eaglejarl said:
The grains and planes of the clay were clearer now that Hazō's skill had grown. His metaphysical eyes could see the tiny pockets of water that had steamed and burst under the heat. He could see more than that. He could see the potential. There. Right there. The clay could be shifted with a touch, its edges convinced to flower open and receive the touch of its siblings, or even its cousins.

Hazō blinked, his eyes flying open in shock and the jutsu breaking. Pain lanced through his head, a momentary flash so sharp that it threatened to push his eyeballs out from the inside. It was only for a moment and then it faded into a steady throbbing.

He ignored the headache and worked his way back into the stone until it was once more fully saturated with his chakra and willing to move at his wish.
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eaglejarl said:
"He thinks that you have the ability to memorize terrain, because I told him that you have the ability to memorize terrain. He wants to know what it is about you that gives you that ability, but he's going to start by investigating exactly what the limits of the ability are. He'll tell you to memorize a certain chunk of terrain by looking at so that he can quiz you on it, or have you walk across it blindfolded without having been on it before. If you were able to do that, then he would start cutting into you while asking more questions so that he could see how different procedures impacted your answers. You won't be able to answer the very first questions, so he'll know that your bloodline is actually something else and that I lied to him." A shudder went across her shoulders; she twitched it away angrily and her voice firmed. "He'll know that it's something related to seals and that will be a lot more interesting."
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Velorien said:
There are two people in this village with both the raw strength and the moral code to stand in Orochimaru's way. If they do stand in Orochimaru's way, as private individuals, I strongly doubt his pride will let him run crying to the Hokage. Even if he does, making me choose him over Tsunade or Naruto is a very different thing to making me choose him over you."
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Can we just do this? All efforts into befriending them strongly in order to get them to advocate on our behalf/directly protect us? Asuma gives good advice, and this was a soft QM push - let's do that.

Naruto has no interest in Orochimaru eating Hazou, and he actually likes Kei, he'll want to protect Hazou because he dislikes Orochimaru and we can increase his feeling by trying to befriend him, and Kei can help advocate for Hazou's safety too.

Like toss Noburi to fulltime medic training with Tsunade to make her happier and then tell her what Orochimaru is doing.
 
eaglejarl said:
@faflec There was a mention at one point of a tunnel under Orochimaru's estate. Was that part of the Basement?
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eaglejarl said:
The main 'house' is more of a rambling mansion built approximately in the shape of an X. The central common area includes library (sadly, the books have all moldered away) and a commercial-grade kitchen. The wings are intended for living space and each contain various linen and cleaning closets, bathrooms, and 5 separate bedrooms varying in size from "1-person luxurious" to "master bedroom that's just silly". The basement contains the family vault. The first subbasement contains what was probably an alchemist's lab and storage for test subjects that were undoubtedly not humans, really, we promise, as well as a secret tunnel that comes up outside the walls of Leaf and contains a number of locked and barred gates down its length, as well as concealed pits and multiple sets of support beams with "PLACE EXPLOSIVE TAG HERE TO CAUSE COLLAPSE" painted on them. The exact number of subbasement levels is unknown, and it may be best left that way, since not even the ANBU wanted to go too deep.
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eaglejarl said:
It seems different to me once you start engaging storage scrolls. That said, maybe it's not.
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To clarify I agree storage scrolls might make it difference. Which is why I said could ignore them. But if you are interested in discussing storage seals I'm not against that
eaglejarl said:
Regardless, the basic idea is that EM does not stack. If you can cheat around it with physics then more power to you but I'm not sanguine that it's doable.
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But you said in the quote that it would work, just not below 0C? If you had said it would work or doesn't work period that is one thing. But I'm confused on why it would work but only up to 0C

eaglejarl said:
I'd have to think about it and discuss it with @Velorien and hopefully @Radvic or some other friendly physics-knower.
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While I am interested in this and won't discourage you doing this. My original question was on what your original statement meant. So in that regard I don't think discussing it would help, unless you forgot what you originally meant and the discussion jogs your memory?
 
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I wonder why oro held back on Mari but not on hazou. Maybe oro got so interested he acted impulsively and forgot to hold back?
It's also interesting how Mari seemed more effected than Hazou. Even though both got medium and mild consequences. And hazou woulda gotten a severe if he didn't already have one
Edit: but social combat mechanics is weird. So maybe don't read too much into it
 
roobee said:
While I am interested in this and won't discourage you doing this. My original question was on what your original statement meant. So in that regard I don't think discussing it would help, unless you forgot what you originally meant and the discussion jogs your memory?
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I meant that you weren't going to use ice to cool a given area lower than the temperature of the ice.
 
Ipsos Custodes said:
Can we just do this? All efforts into befriending them strongly in order to get them to advocate on our behalf/directly protect us? Asuma gives good advice, and this was a soft QM push - let's do that.
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I think that we can not only befriend them, but that we can go to Shikamaru, ask him how much of an utter disaster it would be if Orochimaru cracked open Kei's skull with an eye to finding out what it is in that goop that makes her so interesting, and then I suspect that we'll have access to the Nara plans to get Naruto and Tsunade onside.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
[X] The First and Last Resort is Honesty

Wordcount: unoptimized
  • Run this by Kei, Snowflake, Ami, and Shikamaru.
  • Ask Shikamaru how much of a disaster it would be if Orochimaru dissected Kei's brain, specifically looking to unlock the secrets of her bloodline. (Presumption: apocalyptically.) Request the resources of the Nara to secure the cooperation of Naruto and Tsunade and anyone else who would be helpful.
  • Approach Orochimaru accompanied by at least one of Naruto or Tsunade.
    • Explain that Mari lied and we can't memorize terrain. We're glad she lied - if she hadn't stepped in, he would have forced a member of a clan to divulge a clan secret. That would be a disaster.
      • On those grounds, she will be entirely protected from any retaliation on his part. We are willing, once, to overlook the fact that he used his aura on her.
    • To be clear, our ability to produce a totally accurate copy of the Great Seal (and it is accurate) is based in clan secrets. We are not willing to divulge them at this time.
      • We will kill ourselves in a manner which renders our body biologically useless if he attempts to take us and we've asked that Naruto and Tsunade kill us in such a manner if he grabs us.
    • Kei's cognitively independent Shadow Clones are a product of a clan secret. He's welcome to ask the Nara about that. We predict he's going to get nowhere.
    • After WWIV is over, we're happy to perform noninvasive experiments with Kabuto on Hazo's bloodline, subject to our approval and other considerations.
      • We will only work with Kabuto. We do not trust Orochimaru - he has not shown himself to be trustworthy. We are open to re-evaluating this opinion given substantial new evidence.
    • We are leaving to get back to fighting a war and attempting to save the multiverse. We would welcome his assistance in either endeavor.
      • We have our own immortality research which represents a novel approach and seems extremely promising. We'd love to talk to him about it at some point after the war, too.
    • Parting thought: someone once told us that we need to stop making stupid speeches like this until we were as powerful as Jiriya was.
      • We aren't.
      • Leaf is.
      • We would be saying all of this even without Tsunade or Naruto because we believe in the Will of Fire and we know the village does, too.
        • And we think that on some level, so does he.
  • Overall tone:
    • If he kidnaps us, Leaf ends - either he grabs us and runs and the village is overrun, or he grabs us and stays and the Will of Fire dies.
    • Everyone knows this. On those grounds, no one is going to let him kidnap us.
      • As such, his threats are bushleague intimidation at best, and we're responding accordingly.
    • We are busy. We are willing to work with him towards mutual goals, but we refuse to cave to intimidation and threats.
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I am very eager to vote for this, but I think this needs to be put off for one update? The next update is Velorien's, and EJ was the one to express interest in writing that.
 
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