Remind me where this figure comes from?
Subsistence budgets for ninja vs civilians
I believe it's been mentioned before, just not all in one place: Taxation for urbanites equals roughly 70% of their net income after a subsistence deduction of R4,240. Ninjas are taxed at effectively 70-80% but have a larger subsistence deduction (R42,400 / year), while Clan Ninja & Jounin are taxed at effectively -50% (the state refunds their taxes and pays them 50% more) on mission pay up to the limits of their Clan Benefits.
Assuming subsistence difference is mostly food, I don't really see what else it could be. It's not like ninja wear more clothes, and seals are a luxury good.

EDIT: Housing costs should also be the same
 
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Assuming subsistence difference is mostly food, I don't really see what else it could be. It's not like ninja wear more clothes, and seals are a luxury good.
Ninja probably do wear more clothes, actually. I dread to think what intense physical training and regular combat missions do to your uniforms.

Would you consider kunai and other expendable basic gear to be luxury goods?
 
Ninja probably do wear more clothes, actually. I dread to think what intense physical training and regular combat missions do to your uniforms.

Would you consider kunai and other expendable basic gear to be luxury goods?
More than farming from dawn until dusk every day? Probably not all that much. Kunai are probably pretty expensive, although not all ninja are ranged specs, let me see if I can source something better.
 
Urbanites don't farm from dawn to dusk every day.
Good point, but I found the quote
It all depends how big you want to make Leaf itself. Assuming Hidden Leaf has a population of 28,500 Civilians (@2 koku food consumption per civ / year, Leaf civilians are reasonably well-fed) and 1500 ninja (@10 koku food consumption per ninja / year, ninjas have near-peak human physiques and consume pro-athlete levels of food during missions), and that Hidden Leaf is mostly but not completely self-sufficient (say 80%, 60,000 koku supply vs 72,000 of demand), the walls of Leaf would have to encompass:
It's 5x, not 10x. I'll edit accordingly

EDIT: Actually since this is for carrying capacity and 1 koku is enough for one person. I'm going to let it stand as is, there's no reason to think Iwa's civilians are well-fed, in fact, the opposite.
 
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) A dozen jōnin with various specialties, eighty chūnin, and a couple hundred genin if you need them. Essentially all of them are mostly fire jutsu that amount to 'set a thing on fire by touching it/breathing on it'.
Asuma wants the majority of Leaf's forces at home for defense, or at least nearby, including Tsunade, Orochimaru, and Naruto.
Man Asuma is really making an unforced error here. If Rocks smart they will just grind us down while we use these strategies
 
On discord, and I am paraphrasing Eaglejarl here:

We are devoting a large component of our manpower to offensive. But we are also forced to keep some components of our manpower to defend Leaf, because Leaf is a much softer target.

Anyway, given the strategic implication, some thought might or should be given to fortifying and upgrading Leaf's defenses.
 
On discord, and I am paraphrasing Eaglejarl here:

We are devoting a large component of our manpower to offensive. But we are also forced to keep some components of our manpower to defend Leaf, because Leaf is a much softer target.

Anyway, given the strategic implication, some thought might or should be given to fortifying and upgrading Leaf's defenses.
What kind of stationary fortifications work against ninjas? Walls and similarly functioning structures are virtually useless against them, things like ballista are too slow to hit them, moats are also useless. Chakra beasts kind of work but they'd just hurt us in the meantime
 
What kind of stationary fortifications work against ninjas? Walls and similarly functioning structures are virtually useless against them, things like ballista are too slow to hit them, moats are also useless. Chakra beasts kind of work but they'd just hurt us in the meantime

Apparently, tunnels, lot and lot of tunnels.
 
On discord, and I am paraphrasing Eaglejarl here:

We are devoting a large component of our manpower to offensive. But we are also forced to keep some components of our manpower to defend Leaf, because Leaf is a much softer target.

Anyway, given the strategic implication, some thought might or should be given to fortifying and upgrading Leaf's defenses.
The problem is since Asuma wants to hold essies back Rock can deploy their essies to cut through all of our forces. Plus since Rock isn't under threat of invasion they can deploy larger strike forces than we can. They can just continue to tear through fire and have enough forces to match our attack
 
What kind of stationary fortifications work against ninjas? Walls and similarly functioning structures are virtually useless against them, things like ballista are too slow to hit them, moats are also useless. Chakra beasts kind of work but they'd just hurt us in the meantime
Generally static defenses are pretty much useless against ninja. Skytowers work pretty well against ninja without skywalkers tho. Otherwise you need a ninja with Trapmaking higher than enemy Alertness, very rare.
The problem is since Asuma wants to hold essies back Rock can deploy their essies to cut through all of our forces. Plus since Rock isn't under threat of invasion they can deploy larger strike forces than we can. They can just continue to tear through fire and have enough forces to match our attack
Rock might very well hold back their essies for the same reason. Hopefully.

I do think that cutting off food shipments will put them in dire straights pretty fast. So we should definitely do that. As well as burn any of their crops.

@eaglejarl @Velorien can we have mechanics for chakdar seals? Sorry to ask for spoon things at a time like this. But we're thinking about distributing them to Leaf in general and I'd like to know what we'd be giving up.

Also does the Leaf Jutsu Library have any techniques for causing earthquakes? Possibly something that many people could cast at once for a greater effect.
 
Generally static defenses are pretty much useless against ninja. Skytowers work pretty well against ninja without skywalkers tho. Otherwise you need a ninja with Trapmaking higher than enemy Alertness, very rare.

Rock might very well hold back their essies for the same reason. Hopefully.

I do think that cutting off food shipments will put them in dire straights pretty fast. So we should definitely do that. As well as burn any of their crops.

@eaglejarl @Velorien can we have mechanics for chakdar seals? Sorry to ask for spoon things at a time like this. But we're thinking about distributing them to Leaf in general and I'd like to know what we'd be giving up.

Also does the Leaf Jutsu Library have any techniques for causing earthquakes? Possibly something that many people could cast at once for a greater effect.

we're talking about virtually the same kind of strategy that Asuma is unwilling to use? Just that it's not called hydroengineering.
 
we're talking about virtually the same kind of strategy that Asuma is unwilling to use? Just that it's not called hydroengineering.
Nah if they sue for peace we just allow food shipments to continue. We won't have permanently destroyed their ability to farm, just their short term food supply. If they don't go for terms they'll starve yeah.
 
What kind of stationary fortifications work against ninjas? Walls and similarly functioning structures are virtually useless against them, things like ballista are too slow to hit them, moats are also useless. Chakra beasts kind of work but they'd just hurt us in the meantime
Kagome's murrder wonderland deluxe edition.
 
Updated based on Discord discussion

Edit: updated for organization
Edit 2: Minor Content Updates
Possible War Moves:
  • SIN-strikes and EM-Nuke
  • Deliberate Sealing Failures
  • Something with the Great Seal/3D Seals?
    • 3D Sealing = Unseen Weapon tech against Rock
  • Leverage what Goketsu resources we can to gain more combat summons to hotswap disposable assets as needed
    • Ask Cannai about Dogs who specialize in Tunneling
  • Spam Condors against Skywalking Rock Nin?
  • Send Pangolins in to taint their underwater supply via tunneling
    • Deposit diseased corpses, human feces, harmful microlife/small-life/whatevers, Kabuto or Orochimaru-engineered bioplagues (made to flourish in underground environments)?
      • It would further tie up their Medics and lower morale, if nothing else
      • Have Tsunade work with Orochimaru to develop cure, to be offered to Rock after we win? Or to at least protect Leaf, if it spreads to our waters.
    • Undermine their reservoirs
      • underground structures vulnerable to cave-ins, esp. due to jutsu that can move huge amounts of earth within seconds (Pitfall, Pitfall with Spikes)
    • Bring in other tunneling-friendly Summons (Dogs? Snakes? Turtles?)
  • Target Rock's ventilation somehow (presuming it isn't entirely seal-based, such as Tunneler's Friend may imply)
    • Target natural ventilation and sealmasters somehow?
      • Collapse natural/engineered ventilation tunnels (bring in other tunneling-friendly Summons? Dogs? Snakes? Turtles?)
      • Target imports of paper and ink?
  • Disrupt Rock's food imports
    • Convince the countries (such as Wind and the EN's more Minor Countries) that are trading Rock food to cease trade, or to simply send rotten food
    • Kill merchant caravans providing Rock food
    • Set fire to whatever fields Rock does have.
      • The naturally hot, dry climate should help spread the fires.
      • Skywalkers to scout should help locate the fields.
  • Destroy bridges and trade routes themselves.
    • We broke Rock's bridge into Fire and it cut off their expansion. Implying that Rock wouldn't have an easy way of using an Earth Element "Road Pavement Jutsu" to fix the routes. Or, perhaps, they do but it would be extremely chakra-inefficient to use it on entire hundred-mile long stretches of road... much in the same way that MEW is good for walls, but is inefficient in terms of walling off all of Fire Country's hamlets/villages.
      • Namely, it could be done, but it would be a massive undertaking that would require an investment of huge amounts of time, chakra, and manpower that might otherwise be better invested somewhere else.
      • Destroying their land-based trade routes would force them to either make that investment, or travel via ninja and skywalker --which would further alienate them from Merchant Councils, in addition to tying up military resources.
    • This cuts Rock off from their other vital imports, as well (lumber, food, paper, ink, etc)
  • Defenses Against Rock Tunneling
    • Boost Chakdar range to find Rock's secret underground tunnels
    • Implosion Seals could wreck shit if they suck air through soil (possibly combined with Purifier Seals to do so?)
      • Or such a vacuum may simply collapse the tunnel
    • Develop Earthshaking Seal based on Earbusters (only works via ground, but bigger vibrations?)
    • Isan has an Earthquake jutsu that could wreck Rock's tunnels
      • Pangolins may have one, too, since they can tunnel so well (would have to restore relationship)
      • Would also damage Rock's ventilation (if it's natural/based on civil engineering)
  • Churn out what minor seals we can with our current Consequences (such as explosive seals, sealing scrolls, and the like) via shadow clone to ensure that Leaf is properly stocked for war.
 
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Please radon do not bring propusely making sealing faliures on a actual idea, its unreliable and pepole will scream with us. Same for SIN
 
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Can we make Calligraphy 29 or whatever our next purchase?
Funny enough, that was the very next thing we wanted to level before the whole Great Seal thing happened and we found a need to push all of our XP into Stonecarving. Or to put it another way, I don't think you'll find much disagreement with our next purchase being Calligraphy.
 
Funny enough, that was the very next thing we wanted to level before the whole Great Seal thing happened and we found a need to push all of our XP into Stonecarving. Or to put it another way, I don't think you'll find much disagreement with our next purchase being Calligraphy.
True, I remember the discussions

Really it's just a wonder of if it comes before the next Resolve capstone or not, but I think it should come first
 
Please radon do not bring propusely making sealing faliures on a actual idea, ots unreliable and pepole will svream with us. Same for SIN
I agree that there are more reliable methods to use (I even list several of them in that same list), but sealing failures and SIN are options worth considering. I don't think they should be our first choice, but if the war becomes too dangerous, then they could be a last resort.
True, I remember the discussions

Really it's just a wonder of if it comes before the next Resolve capstone or not, but I think it should come first
Providing that it doesn't do anything wonky with our skill pyramids, I'd vote for Calligraphy. EJ's been "hinting" at Hazou needing to boost that skill for a while. I even remember that Hazou succeeded in researching a seal that he shouldn't have due to a QM-error, and they were kind enough not to Grue that success away (though Kagome was both baffled and panicked in character, IIRC)
 
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