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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
If we're going to be farming stuff, can't we use some of our own manor grounds as farmland? It'll be far less than 1km2​ (I think our manor is 900m2​), but it'll serve as a baseline to work out the kinks and serve as a small source of income.
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Lailoken said:
I don't expect this to be remembered this time either, but pretty much the ideal job for Mari would be running an inn/tavern as a front for a spy network and gossip collection. A tavern needs a brewery, and a winery, and the basement is full of distillation equipment.
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Walter said:
The land will stil be there in a month. Let's keep our heads down until we know who our new master is.
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Nahhh. I am in the camp that if Hiashi wins the hat we will die. Team Uplift will be sent on dangerous after dangerous missions till we one by one we die. So we have to win or run. Naruto was of the opinion that unless we where making bold moves Hiashi is a lock for the hat. If we win and the Hyūga make a move that will start a civil war. Which is one that the Gōketsu and our allies are incredibly favored to win
 
Independent of how much money we can make clearing out land long term, I believe that doing so has several immediate benefits:
  • It is good for Leaf. At worst, safer environs. At best, more farmland. "See?" We shall say, "We may have been outsiders once, but now we contribute to the future of our village."
  • It is a harmless (needs citation) demonstration of our power during a politically sensitive time.
If we can find excuses to include other ninja in the project, we might further achieve:
  • Showing Uplift is more than naive speeches. Here is how it benefits you.
  • A shared, glorious struggle in pursuit of common good. A+ bonding time.
  • Another weapon in our public narrative. "The Gouketsu and the <insert clan here> set aside their differences to work towards the benefit of Leaf."
 
Kiba said:
I don't think it's likely there would be underutilized farmlands.
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It has been mentioned that due to the sheer number of losses Leaf has suffered in such a short period of time there is a real danger that it's going to have to abandon already-productive land and consolidate. Civilian settlements are only possible when enough ninja are available to routinely cull the local chakra beast populations down to "extreme hazard" instead of "omnicidal deathworld."

That said, I'm pretty ambivalent about real estate development shenanigans. If the NPCs say it'd be an easy addition, great, but there's already plenty of money in the mission fees, chakra beast parts, pangolin payments for meat and storage scrolls, the developing multi-summoner alliance trade cartel, etc. That's to say nothing of the oodles and oodles of nonmonetary benefits.
 
Buy a square kilometer of suitable land close-ish to the Swamp of Death/Forest of Death on the cheap. What could go wrong?
Walter said:
I feel like I'm reading a different quest than other folks. Like, people are talking about the income from farming plans, about whether or not we'll grow into S-rank in 15 years.

I'm worried about our characters being killed or exiled out of the Leaf within weeks, in particular as soon as the election is over.

I know I'm just one poster, but I read the 'Shikamaru speech' update as a warning from the QM's, and I think we are being insufficient heedful of that warning.
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By my guesstimates we have about 3-4 updates of info fishing before we can make any meaningful advances on the politics front. Pretty much every tangible politics plan is based on sketchy info and can't proceed at the moment. The question of "How much money exactly do we have to bribe folks over the next month or two to save our collective bacon?" is still an open question, and one that serves as a complete spoon-nuke to the QMs from what they have pretty much flat out told us on here.

Figuring out mid-long term ways to twist the fragile balance of the setting into a pretzel is just what we do for fun in between updates my dude.
 
How fast can we clear trees? During the exam, we were able to clear 100 meters of lightly wooded terrain around 4 sites in one day. Assume 25% was actually covered in trees, for about 8 acres cleared, using seals but not jutsu. Cut it in half to deal with the heavy forests of leaf.

Tunnel jutsus can probably help. But we might have difficulty clear cutting 100 acres in a day.
 
Immortal Lurker said:
How fast can we clear trees? During the exam, we were able to clear 100 meters of lightly wooded terrain around 4 sites in one day. Assume 25% was actually covered in trees, for about 8 acres cleared, using seals but not jutsu. Cut it in half to deal with the heavy forests of leaf.

Tunnel jutsus can probably help. But we might have difficulty clear cutting 100 acres in a day.
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Kagome once cleared a forest so quickly that even with a head start and running upwind the team needed to resort to borderline fatal levels of chakra boosting to escape getting cooked.
 
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Productivity of Leaf
  • Informational
    • eaglejarl said:
    Please note that the "5 koku pet farmer" thing was an idea that I was putting forward to show that there were ways to make the books balance if we had to fudge things. It is NOT yet a confirmed part of the worldbuilding. I'm talking to the others about it.
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    It all depends how big you want to make Leaf itself. Assuming Hidden Leaf has a population of 28,500 Civilians (@2 koku food consumption per civ / year, Leaf civilians are reasonably well-fed) and 1500 ninja (@10 koku food consumption per ninja / year, ninjas have near-peak human physiques and consume pro-athlete levels of food during missions), and that Hidden Leaf is mostly but not completely self-sufficient (say 80%, 60,000 koku supply vs 72,000 of demand), the walls of Leaf would have to encompass:

    @10 koku (Baseline medieval productivity) per hectare per year: 6000 hectares, 60 sq. kilometers or a circle of radius 4.3 km (8.6km diameter, so walking across Leaf takes ~1 hr 45 min for civs)
    @25 koku (2.5x medieval, 5 koku / farmer) per hectare per year: 2400 hectares, 24 sq. kilometers or a circle of radius 2.8 km (5.6km diameter, walk takes ~1 hr 10 mins)
    @50 koku (5x medieval) per hectare per year: 1200 hectares, 12 sq. kilometers or a circle of radius 2 km (4km diameter, walk takes ~45 min)

    Add 20-40% to the values to account for non-farmland. There was a lot of variation in medieval city sizes, I think anything above 15 koku per hectare could be defensible.
     
  • Informational
    • How many jounin does Leaf have left, 15-20 out of an initial population of 30-50?

    Jounin we know of:
    -Mari
    -Minori
    -Chouza
    -Asuma
    -Hiashi
    -Naruto (S)
    -Sasuke (?)
    -Tsunade (S)
    -Kabuto

    That's 9/15 or 9/20 jounin of which 7/20 are friendly or neutral. Both S-rankers are friendly or neutral. Naruto alone probably represents the majority of available jounin labor in Leaf. Are you sure you aren't already the stronger power bloc?
     
    @Rihaku What did you say the conversion rate was for koku : 2019 dollars?

    Immortal Lurker said:
    How fast can we clear trees? During the exam, we were able to clear 100 meters of lightly wooded terrain around 4 sites in one day. Assume 25% was actually covered in trees, for about 8 acres cleared, using seals but not jutsu. Cut it in half to deal with the heavy forests of leaf.

    Tunnel jutsus can probably help. But we might have difficulty clear cutting 100 acres in a day.
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    Note that there's a difference between clearing land (knocking down all the trees) and making it farm-ready (stumping all the trees you knocked down, hauling off the trunks, etc). Granted, it's a problem that is highly amenable to the Kagome-Style Universal Problem Solving Technique.
     
    Rihaku said:
    How many jounin does Leaf have left, 15-20 out of an initial population of 30-50?

    Jounin we know of:
    -Mari
    -Minori
    -Chouza
    -Asuma
    -Hiashi
    -Naruto (S)
    -Sasuke (?)
    -Tsunade (S)
    -Kabuto

    That's 9/15 or 9/20 jounin of which 7/20 are friendly or neutral. Both S-rankers are friendly or neutral. Naruto alone probably represents the majority of available jounin labor in Leaf. Are you sure you aren't already the stronger power bloc?
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    I don't think Sasuke or Naruto are Jonin.

    Also, I think this confuses "Friendly" with "on our side". We have no idea who Kabuto supports, for example.
     
    Rihaku said:
    How many jounin does Leaf have left, 15-20 out of an initial population of 30-50?

    Jounin we know of:
    -Mari
    -Minori
    -Chouza
    -Asuma
    -Hiashi
    -Naruto (S)
    -Sasuke (?)
    -Tsunade (S)
    -Kabuto

    That's 9/15 or 9/20 jounin of which 7/20 are friendly or neutral. Both S-rankers are friendly or neutral. Naruto alone probably represents the majority of available jounin labor in Leaf. Are you sure you aren't already the stronger power bloc?
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    Don't forget Kurenai. It's unclear whether Kabuto is a full jonin combat-wise. Sasuke is a Chunin, I think.

    Nakamura Dai --if he's alive -- should be amicable towards Naruto at least.

    I'm fairly certain the Team trained with those 3 Jonin around chapter 90ish. They may have been spec Jonin or otherwise dead at present.

    If we're counting spec Jonin the list expands to include Ebisu, Anko, Kabuto(?) ....

    Immortal Lurker said:
    I don't think Sasuke or Naruto are Jonin.
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    In Naruto's case thats pretty much a moot point though, isn't it?
     
    Rihaku said:
    How many jounin does Leaf have left, 15-20 out of an initial population of 30-50?

    Jounin we know of:
    -Mari
    -Minori
    -Chouza
    -Asuma
    -Hiashi
    -Naruto (S)
    -Sasuke (?)
    -Tsunade (S)
    -Kabuto

    That's 9/15 or 9/20 jounin of which 7/20 are friendly or neutral. Both S-rankers are friendly or neutral. Naruto alone probably represents the majority of available jounin labor in Leaf. Are you sure you aren't already the stronger power bloc?
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    We know that leaf has 50 Jounin pre us. In the first mist/Leaf battle they lost 12. In the battle of Nagi Island leaf lost approximately the same number. I've been using 25 for my approximations not counting Mari and Kagome. Known jounin Asuma, Chouza, Kurenai, Hiashi, Minori, Kabuto, Anko and Tsunade. There are 13 clans with at least 10 active Ninjas. Minus Tsunade and known clanless jounin their are 20 clan jounin. This gives clans an average of 1.5 jounin. If the 2/3 ratio of clan ninja to clanless ninjas holds then each clan should have 1.2 jounin. If only clans allied with Hiashi have the remaining jounin we are outnumbered 6/17 assuming all clanless jounin stay neutral. Of course we have Naruto and Tsunade on our side who are degrees stronger than average jounin
     
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    eaglejarl said:
    They don't care about helping civilians, but they do care about getting taxes and resources.
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    I'd imagine there's probably at least some who care because they feel like helping people when you can is the right thing to do, even if they're a small minority. They'd be people with well developed senses of empathy in general, or who have family who aren't ninja and that helps them see other non-ninja who aren't their family as people too. I guess the question becomes, what percentage of the ninja population are they?
     
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    TaliesinSkye said:
    I'd imagine there's probably at least some who care because they feel like helping people when you can is the right thing to do, even if they're a small minority. They'd be people with well developed senses of empathy in general, or who have family who aren't ninja and that helps them see other non-ninja who aren't their family as people too. I guess the question becomes, what percentage of the ninja population are they?
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    Not enough.
     
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