- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There are some fascinating things buried in the old updates. Chapter 87:
Chapter 89, Part 1:
Chapter 91:
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I can't see any way to make changes to that effect without radically altering the direction of the plan. There are 10 hours until voting ends, and I'm not comfortable making radical changes to plan which folks voted for with less than 12 hours before voting ends.
If you have suggestions which preserve the overall direction of the plan (the three bullet points at the top) I'm happy to consider them but...
(In which I voice a gripe I've had about plan feedback in general which is not specific to this instance.)
...beyond the moral considerations of 'people voted for one thing and not a different thing', it is difficult to respond meaningfully to suggestions which run entirely counter to the direction of plan. This is true even when it's a ways away from voting; 'I think the bones of this plan represent terrible ideas and here's why' is absolutely useful in many circumstances, but the author's options for response are (broadly) either going to be agreement or disagreement. In the case the author disagrees, they can try to respond generously and explain their ideas, but such stark disagreement generally comes down to an intractable difference of opinion based on values or modelling. Let's say I write a plan that reflects my belief that (for example) we should treat Asuma with extreme caution because he responded so sharply to the bank run and has threatened our lives several times, and someone disagrees, saying that Asuma is basically trustworthy as long as we make a clear attempt to align our actions with his values, then the ensuing conversation is unlikely to change anyone's mind. And if the author agrees with the criticism, they're likely best off scrapping their plan and salvaging the unrelated sections for a new plan.
I don't have a wise solution - if someone does (beyond 'you don't need to respond to every comment on a plan' and the like) or has another perspective, I'd be interested.
I want to be extremely clear that I think that everyone should provide fairly unvarnished feedback on plans and I am not saying that my feelings on this matter should ever prevent anyone from doing so.
Do we know Takahashi sent his daughter away? I don't recall that being in the update. Also, wtf does "the high bridge has fallen" mean? Is it a quote from something?
I don't necessarily disagree with this conclusion. But I doubt our ability to deliver a satisfactory outcome without allies. There are 400 Isanese ninja and 4 Leaf ones. Those odds are too steep.
- Location
- Yes.
Minori could have been killed, held hostage, or is otherwise unable to be present, but given how she was traditionally meant to be here her absence is definitely concerning.
Right, we have no idea what happened to Minori. Could be anything. (Yet another Minori?)
EDIT: @FaintlySorcerous Could you put in something about subtly asking Takahashi about his daughter, in the plan?
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- Location
- Yes.
My opinion is that Minori is either dead or held hostage by Aizen, so I don't think any mention of Takahashi's *screaming in daughter* problem is going to go well.
Yeah, I don't think ignoring it is a good idea either. Keiko can ask after her health or something, and he can choose what to share.
- Location
- Yes.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think that asking at some point is a good idea. I think that asking at this present moment would be a reasonable thing to do. Given that Keiko can be a little blunt and that this is likely a sensitive topic, I'd want to have it in the plan as something a little more specific than 'tactfully ask about Minori'. There are things which could be cut for this, but they all feel like they're more useful information/more time-sensitive than this. We're going to see a lot of Takahashi going forward (hopefully) so I'm broadly included to push it to the next Isan plan.
This is fine, it still feels like we're missing out on obvious plot hooks though.
I don't understand, I reread the update in question and I think we just sent him a note and asked for a meeting. Then we had tea at his house.
Isan doesn't have Hyuuga or similar bloodlines that permit extreme spying as far as I know. Honestly, if the High Priest is privy to our private conversations with Takahashi we might as well pack up and go home, at least then we won't be killed in a pointless insurrection. (Unless we're executed for giving up, that is)
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I've been meticulously tracking all information we've gotten on the layout of the Seventh Path and compiled it into a best-guess map. Loosely speaking, the far east/southeast contains a lot of the clans Leaf is familiar with (Monkey, Toad, Turtle, Snake, Slug, and now also Pangolin and Porcupine), the North contains the Dogs and Cats, and we know pretty much nothing about the South.
Ninth draft: Dragons! Also, Arachnid-Cat connection.
Eighth draft: Hares are on a northern peninsula, Bears have northern coast, Cats west of Bear. Possible upwards curve of Bear coast (heading straight west is apparently faster than following coastline). Expedition path being tracked.
edit: Seventh draft, after new information on the Dog coastline and existence of a great lake:
edit: Sixth draft, after EJ generously gave out some information on Porcupine/Hyena/Pangolin borders in discord.
edit: Fifth draft, including some tidbits EJ generously gave on discord and the location of the Squirrels that I scrounged up from the Enma chapter.
edit: fourth draft:
edit 2: third draft, now including a location for the Dogs and clip arts of the various clans.
(There weren't any Mara icons anywhere I could find, so I had to take a photo of one and trace it. Still turned out pretty okay)
edit: updated with a second draft after recent loredump.
Original text:
Alright, got a sketch done. Still not sure which side of the Otters the Condors are supposed to be, but with other statements about the Capybara and so it'd be very awkward if the Condors touched the Pangolins and Toads and were south of the Otters.
Still a good deal of guesswork on the details, but this is roughly how things fit together.
Also, the Pangolins border a heckton of other clans.
Going by my understanding of the map they're probably a little east and south of center, but not that close to any of the coasts either.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I'm not super sure what you remember that from, but what I do remember is that the Crows in mfd were noted to be of a scholarly bent, until Itachi got the scroll and beat up the Crow Boss 1v1 and made the Crows do what he wanted.
- Location
- Italy
Fascinating indeed.
HAZOU: Can someone pick up that phone? Because I fucking called it.
We are totally going to point this out to Shikamaru when (If) we survive the dragons, right?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
HAZOU: "Dear brother-in-law, you're a good man, a great husband and friend to my sister, and I am proud to be able to call you family --even if only by marriage. That said, I told you so."
SHIKA: [Grumbles]
HAZOU: "I'm glad we're in agreement. Now that is in the open, would you mind swiping the Grue off of my meal and handing it to me? I think I might've upset someone, because they put the plate at an angle my arms can't bend to reach."
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fun fact: the scissor monsters referred to in that update should technically have taken over the world by now. Looking back, at the time of their sealing, Hazō didn't actually possess the mechanical ability to do what he did. He still doesn't.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Proof that this quest will end with time travel to go back and fix hazou's mistakes
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
I would rate this funny, but I'm too busy screaming.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Or make more... Just saying
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I put it in the wrong category. Fixed.
Phew! And we dodge a horrifying piece of world building!
Okay, finally caught up.
Here's what we do. First, serial numbers, because duh. Then we borrow the old trick of splitting a log because each one has enough natural variations to only fit with its original partner and thus each part can serve as a secure and mutually verifiable receipt of the others. This should be trivial since the scrip is already wooden chips. Since the diameter is always a little different we can follow it up with using Caesar cyphers as a checksum and hash which can be used as the actual notes. Given the materials about to start swarming in from the 7th Path trade arrangement they could actually be more secure and stable than commodity currency. We all remember what happened to Spain when it started importing tons of gold and silver from the New World.
Meanwhile, we point out to Asuma that what just happened could be exploited to destroy other nations' economies on demand if the scrip profligates. Even if it doesn't, others are going to pick up on the idea of fiat money and make their own because it's just too tempting for those in power, and it'll be a race to who has the better printing technology, which Leaf is already miles ahead in. Then the fun begins.
Here's what we do. First, serial numbers, because duh. Then we borrow the old trick of splitting a log because each one has enough natural variations to only fit with its original partner and thus each part can serve as a secure and mutually verifiable receipt of the others. This should be trivial since the scrip is already wooden chips. Since the diameter is always a little different we can follow it up with using Caesar cyphers as a checksum and hash which can be used as the actual notes. Given the materials about to start swarming in from the 7th Path trade arrangement they could actually be more secure and stable than commodity currency. We all remember what happened to Spain when it started importing tons of gold and silver from the New World.
Meanwhile, we point out to Asuma that what just happened could be exploited to destroy other nations' economies on demand if the scrip profligates. Even if it doesn't, others are going to pick up on the idea of fiat money and make their own because it's just too tempting for those in power, and it'll be a race to who has the better printing technology, which Leaf is already miles ahead in. Then the fun begins.
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Chapter 434: A Parable of Pride
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Unlike the Takahashi estate, which to Kei felt like a slumbering beast, ancient and powerful, but positively inclined towards her and therefore not too terrifying, the Yoshida main building was watchful. Focused. Precise. Everything was in its place, and everything had been crafted by a hand that knew its purpose. It would have felt like home—or a place that she had once called home—had it not carried an undertone of intimidation.
There were also seals everywhere. There were seals woven into the carpets. There were seals carved into the pillars. There were seals in the artwork on the walls. Most of them were doubtless non-functional abstract patterns, intended to both please and mislead the eye, but Kei's reliable pessimism informed her that there were certainly real ones concealed among the rest, ready to be called upon when needed, or perhaps even now working some subtle effect upon her. The Gōketsu, with their primitive granite architecture, had much to learn from what might be the world's only sealmaster clan.
This meeting could have been taking place under better circumstances. Vastly better circumstances. Communication within the team was still complicated, because Kei possessed so little control over her feelings that she unleashed disastrous confrontations in the middle of critical missions, and Hazō had not provided any guidance either. All Kei could do was attempt to adapt the contingencies Mari had prepared before the Takahashi-sensei meeting, and hope she was not forced to... improvise.
"Summoner." Yoshida Tsukiko beckoned her into her study as her silent escort faded into the shadows from which he'd come. The green tea set out between them came with an unusually high number of sweets, which was atypical based on the formal meetings Kei had experienced so far. She could not tell whether the message was "I still see you as a child and you will have to earn my respect" or "I acknowledge our differences and am prepared to reach an accommodation" (not that Kei had revealed her sweet tooth during their time in Isan, but with Mari keenly impressing the virtues of Leaf-made chocolate on the population, perhaps assumptions were being made). Why could Isan not be the kind of place where persons of importance like herself could send lowly messengers like Mari to conduct initial negotiations on their behalf?
"It does me honour that you grace my humble home with your presence," Yoshida said in the unemotional voice of one delivering an expected pleasantry. "Please tell me how I can be of aid."
"Isan has changed greatly in the time since my departure," Kei began. "Quite dizzyingly so. As you were our guide to the complexities of Isan's politics the first time, and doubtless protected us from many unseen pitfalls, I would be grateful if you could share with me your wisdom regarding the village's present state."
A blatant lie—Yoshida had attempted to control them and limit their agency from the very beginning—but Takahashi-sensei had advised her that Yoshida was a true politician, and thus possessed only more respect for those who wielded lies deftly and instrumentally. This by no means described Kei, but it did offer her some room to misstep, since Yoshida might assume an advanced form of misdirection where in reality Kei was merely flailing.
"I cannot think of anything that would please me more," Yoshida said. "But that would be difficult without knowing the context from which you are approaching Isan. What are your thoughts on Isan as you have found it?"
Thwack. The ball was sent zooming back into Kei's court.
But Kei was not only the team's lone representative on this battlefield, with altogether too much trust placed in her. She was also a ranged weapons specialist, diversions into giant armoured insectivore management notwithstanding. It would dishonour her, and worse, Tenten, if she allowed such a manoeuvre to pass unchallenged.
"I would not presume," Kei said demurely. "What kind of insight could I claim before one of Isan's most respected elders, who had been navigating the subtle currents of the village before I was even born? No you would do me a great kindness by enlightening me before I can come to any misguided conclusions."
Yoshida gave Kei a judging look. Would she be willing to show her hand first?
"The village is prospering," she said finally. "The directionless have been given direction, resources have been intelligently reinvested, malcontents have been granted gainful employment or placed where they can do the least harm, our warriors are stronger than ever, and we will soon enter the outside world on our own terms. Who could ask for more?"
Approval, in other words, of the High Priest's regime. The worse scenario. Still, Kei was not finished.
"You perceive, then," she asked, "that an alliance with one of the powers of the outside world would be necessary? Certainly, there are enough out there who would see Isan as easy prey, rightly or wrongly, were it not already aligned with a village whose strength they respected."
Yoshida watched her, leaving an uncomfortable silence for Kei to fill with more information.
"As you are aware," Kei said, "I came here from the Village Hidden in the Leaves, the foremost of the powers which might seek to ally with Isan. I cannot guess at the extent of your knowledge of the Elemental Nations, but you should be aware that Leaf—"
Yoshida held up her hand in a gesture so identical to Takahashi-sensei's that at another time Kei might have been inclined to ponder a connection.
"Summoner," she said, "foreign policy decisions are to be made by the High Priest. That was part of the agreement made when he dissolved the old village council. There is no need to waste your breath trying to convince me."
"But surely you would not refuse the opportunity to learn—"
"Summoner," Yoshida said with emphasis. "I suppose I will have to be blunt. The village is prospering. The Yoshida doubly so. The High Priest recognises the value of sealing like few before him. We may not be in his inner circle like the Aida or the Inoue, but under him we are gaining wealth and influence well beyond what we possessed as just one of the ruling clans. Takahashi, the old fool, could have had the same and more had he not decided to cling to the past. I don't know what he told you, but for the sake of my clan, I have no intention of poking the sleeping tapir. The world changes, and the Yoshida adapt. Soon, it will broaden, and we will continue to adapt.
"I will instruct one of my clansmen to wrap some of the mochi to take with you. Our chef is among the village's finest."
You are a child, and you have nothing to say that could make me rethink my decisions.
Yoshida began to rise from her seat, a gesture of dismissal.
Kei could not fail like this. So quickly. So easily. At the first real challenge. (Not counting the High Priest's dinner, where she had also embarrassed herself in several different ways). She would return to the Kannagi estate, and the others would see, yes, a child, a liability next to Mari's effortless smoothness that would surely have provided flawless victory had she been in control and not Kei.
"Excuse me," she said with lightning speed. "Where might I say my midday prayers?"
Yoshida sat back down. "Head the way you came. Third door on the left."
Desperate times, Kei was aware, called for desperate measures.
-o-
"Summoner," Yoshida said with a shade of concern. "Are you well?"
"Perfectly," Snowflake said." I apologise for taking so much of your time."
"Well, then," Yoshida said, "I'll have you escorted—"
"A moment, please," Snowflake said. "As you have given me the benefit of your wisdom, may I also share something with you? I have a story, with no bearing on our present circumstances, which you may nevertheless find diverting."
"By all means, Summoner," Yoshida said. Snowflake did not miss her subtly slipping one of the mochi she had been about to eat into her sleeve.
"There is a Leaf shinobi," she began, "by the name of Snowflake."
Yoshida gave her that look the Isanese reserved for ignorant barbarians. "A peculiar name. Or do all Leaf ninja name themselves after objects?"
"Not to the best of my knowledge," Snowflake said. "Her creato—her parent named her while in the throes of whimsy, apparently unconcerned with the implications of burdening a fellow intelligent being with a name typically given to pet cats or small dogs." Despite this official stance, in reality, Snowflake liked her name. It was evocative, and unique in a positive way—indeed, it connoted being unique in a positive way—which was more than could be said for most of her uniqueness. Nobody needed to know that it was also special simply as a gift from Kei, least of all Kei herself.
"But that is irrelevant to the story. You see, one morning, Snowflake awoke as she always did, a person of power and influence, respected, unrestricted in her actions, capable of moving hundreds if she fully exerted her will, and with a firm web of friends, family, and allies anchoring her in the world and ever ready to provide love, support, insight, and strength. In the next instant, all of this was stripped from her, without exception. Her past achievements, everything she had earned and everything she had received as a gift or by grace of fortune, were taken all at once, leaving her with no past and, in effect, no future. Her… sister… claimed possession of it all, down to Snowflake's very existence.
"Tell me, Elder Yoshida. How would you act in such circumstances?"
With the Village Council dissolved, Yoshida was technically no longer a village elder. Snowflake used the title advisedly.
"I would withdraw," Yoshida said after a second's thought. "I'd marshal my strength outside the sister's reach, and as soon as she let her guard down, I'd destroy her and take back what was mine."
"The attempt was made," Snowflake said. "Perhaps less strategically than you envision, but comprehensive retaliation was Snowflake's chosen response." Insofar as there had been a choice, and not merely raw pain. "However, it was found that a mere shadow cannot do lasting damage to a being of substance. And upon her defeat, Snowflake was left with a terrible choice."
"What was that?" Yoshida asked.
"On one side of the scale, oblivion. Freedom from awakening each time to see a hollow shell both inside and outside where there should be a life. Before you judge, understand that Snowflake loved her sister." It was good that Snowflake was leaning on her initiative and creativity as best she could for this encounter. The details would be a blur for Kei. "Murder was not an option for her, nor the other paths traditional for the defeated in the shinobi world." Not that the Second's safeguards would have allowed for anything straightforward, but nor had they been intentionally proofed against something like her.
"What do you imagine was the other choice, Elder Yoshida?"
"Bargaining," Yoshida said, her face twisting briefly with some negative emotion Snowflake could not identify. "Trying to hold onto what she could as she surrendered."
"Bargaining," Snowflake agreed. "Of course, Snowflake had nothing. Her bargaining position was as terrible as can be imagined. Anything her sister wanted from her, she could compel with a few words."
That had been the worst discovery, once they were reconciled. Snowflake was a shadow clone. If Kei gave her a direct order, Snowflake would obey, eagerly, to the best of her ability, and only afterwards recognise the violation. Could there be any act as vile, as unforgivable, as forcibly rewriting someone's will, as stripping away their agency at the core of who they were? It was the act of which rape was a pale imitation, of which murder was simply a permanent form. It was an act which destroyed the victim and which corrupted the perpetrator absolutely—Kei could conceal nothing from Snowflake, much less the fact that, even as she felt the exact same revulsion, some tiny corner of her mind found absolute control intoxicating.
And, because Kei was a far better person than she would ever understand, she put every effort into finding the mental distinction between preference and intent, learning to request, insist, or demand without even accidentally wielding the authority of command. It could be learned. It could be done. Snowflake was convinced that this discovery, together with the realisation of what such compulsion did to both people's souls, was one of the root causes of the growing rift between Kei and Mari.
"There can be no equivalent exchange when one of the parties has absolute power," Snowflake went on. "To claim even a shred of parity is self-deception. Instead, Snowflake was forced to take a leap of faith. They were sisters, beyond the conflict. Could bargaining be superseded by goodwill?"
Yoshida raised an eyebrow sceptically.
"Given the specifics of their shared background, the sisters saw the solution instantly. It was a kinder version of the fate that would have been Snowflake's had her will not survived her loss. Snowflake could become a tool. As a tool, she had value. As a loyal tool, perhaps even more. She would be able to partake in her sister's power, offering her counsel which might be acted on, and perhaps sometimes speaking with her voice. It would not be the life she'd had—her sister could never restore that to her—but as her sister's shadow, she could possess that life's shadow. And if her sister grew in power, so would Snowflake's shadow lengthen.
"Do you know why Snowflake did not do this, Elder Yoshida?"
Yoshida stared at Snowflake as if trying to bore holes in her with her gaze. "Why, Summoner?"
"Pride, Elder Yoshida. Snowflake had nothing. Snowflake was nothing. But she had her agency. Indeed, with all else lost, she was her agency. And in that inalienable agency lay her pride, which would not allow her to accept the offered shadow of existence for as long as there was a chance, however slim, of something more. Perhaps that pride would lead her nowhere. Perhaps the new life she crafted for herself would be immeasurably inferior to the shadow. Still, her agency, her pride, called to her, demanding that she build something of her own or accept a total subordination which was worse than death.
"Snowflake lives with pride, Elder Yoshida. She lives with constant terror, for she as yet possesses only scraps, and to lose them would mean being plunged back into that pain that was her awakening. She lives with constant knowledge that a single misstep would be sufficient to destroy everything she has gained. She lives with pride, for all that is hers and all that she is was earned from zero, against odds no one else will ever face. And if sometimes she looks at her sister and remembers the safety of the shadow she was offered? She is her sister's equal. At her heart lies the flickering candle flame of the hope that she can match what her sister now possesses, even surpass it—and being true to her agency, her pride, means that she can aim for nothing less."
Silence. Contemplative silence. Seemingly without thinking, Yoshida took a mochi.
Snowflake would die if her assumptions were incorrect and Kei remembered.
"You seem to know a great deal about this Snowflake, Summoner," Yoshida said. "Who is she? What has become of her after those decisions?"
"The rest of her story is to be told in Leaf," Snowflake said, "to honoured guests of the Nara. Come to us anytime and I will introduce you. I promise it is a meeting you will remember for the rest of your life."
Yoshida spent a while in thought. She did not take any more mochi.
"The loyalty of the Yoshida belongs to the village first and foremost," she finally said. "It is our duty as Akio's followers to oppose anything that, on balance, brings harm to the village. I am grateful for your visit, Summoner, but I can guess your unspoken thoughts, and I'm afraid I cannot sit here and discuss any kind of treason against the High Priest."
"I understand," Snowflake said, heart plummeting. Kei had placed her trust in her, enough to take such a great risk, and she had failed.
However, Yoshida did not get up.
"You have a sealmaster in what is now your clan, do you not? The man who solved the locking seal as if it were a children's toy?"
"We do," Snowflake said uncertainly. "His name is Kagome. Hazō, the head of the clan, is his apprentice, and also a respected sealmaster in his own right."
"And I recall your claim that you can communicate with the Village Hidden in the Leaves at will."
"In a manner of speaking."
"It might be interesting to correspond with a fellow specialist," Yoshida said. "I wouldn't dream of parting with Isan secrets, of course, or asking for any of yours, but to speak with a foreigner on subjects of mutual interest is already more than my predecessors could have imagined."
She pulled out some writing implements from a recess in the wall, then, as Snowflake watched, wrote a missive, and finally slapped an unfamiliar seal on top of the scroll.
"This is my personal confidentiality seal. It is half a product of boredom and thus complicated in excessive and unnecessary ways. If your Kagome can unlock it as he did the Summoning Scroll, he may consider it a gift with which to open our discussion. If not, perhaps Leaf is not the place for the Yoshida to seek new heights of sealing."
"Thank you," Snowflake said. "I will be certain to convey it with all haste."
"Do," Yoshida said. "There may not be much time before matters become… complicated."
After making the appropriate excuses and Isanese gestures of politeness, Snowflake rescued Kei from the third door on the left and allowed herself to end.
This time, Yoshida did not offer Kei any sweets.
-o-
You have received (2+1) x 7 = 21 XP.
-o-
Keiko has successfully spent a week participating in increasingly challenging chakra beast hunts. She has spent 3 FP, all on Alertness rerolls, and earned 1 FP. Thanks to PCJ, she has not taken any Consequences, something that has not gone unremarked on. Her best trophy is a head half the size of her body, best described as part-simian, part-equine, part unholy abomination, which still occasionally disgorges acidic saliva from the mouth. She has made a note to train Alertness because her ranged combat style is of limited utility when she keeps losing initiative rolls and finding the enemy right in her face.
-o-
Mari has been forced to tread carefully among the Isanese outcasts, as informing the High Priest that the suspicious foreigners are recruiting allies for an insurrection would be a great way to get back in his favour. Nevertheless, no ninja is as dangerous as one with a hunger for revenge and nothing to lose. No, wait, there is. It's a ninja with a hunger for revenge, nothing to lose, and a religious authority telling them they're doing the right thing. A random handful of powerless but committed allies has been secured.
-o-
The rest of the plan has totally happened, but I stayed up way too late writing the above and am now out of energy, out of inspiration, and out of confidence that I can write Haru half as well as @eaglejarl. I leave it to him whether he wants to take this one, or just offscreen it with a brief summary before writing a different plan.
-o-
Voting is closed unless @eaglejarl reopens it.