• MEW
  • The Motoyoshi jutsu that improves soil fertility
  • Possibly the Kurusu's jutsu that turns iron into lodestone
MEW and the fertilizer jutsu would be invaluable to have lots of people know, so that they can be more useful for Till n Fills. I feel like the lodestone jutsu would be useful for economic things somehow, but I don't have any exact ideas at the moment.

Well, [as] for the [soil] fertility [jutsu]... we're going to start a mining town eventually, right? We could set up heavily walled farms around it so that it's self-sustaining --and if there's excess, we could either store it or sell it. We could then hire ninja to fertilize the soil every season.

As for the lodestone... are compasses a thing, or do most ninja use the stars as navigation?
 
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@MMKII , you could just make the start:

Continue Group meeting: Mari, Kagome, Noburi, Akane, Keiko, Yuno, Haru. Security: high.
  • (Confirm with Mari/Keiko whether sharing information about BotG with Yuno is acceptable beforehand.)
To avoid miscommunication what we mean with OPSEC this time.

e: Just feel like

  • Point: establish context with Team Uplift and friends, clarify the additional long term Team goal to everyone.
isn't really as important.
 
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Well, for the fertility... we're going to start a mining town eventually, right? We could set up heavily walled farms around it so that it's self-sustaining --and if there's excess, we could either store it or sell it.

I missed the word "soil" at first and I read your post as a lot darker and more ruthless than it was intended to be.
 
[x] Action Plan: It's the Plan From Before That Needs Finishing Please Vote for This Otherwise Its Kinda Awkward To Not Haha (Taking Edit Suggestions)
 
Well, [as] for the [soil] fertility [jutsu]... we're going to start a mining town eventually, right? We could set up heavily walled farms around it so that it's self-sustaining --and if there's excess, we could either store it or sell it. We could then hire ninja to fertilize the soil every season.

As for the lodestone... are compasses a thing, or do most ninja use the stars as navigation?
...How much would it cost to buy a genin's services on an ongoing basis? Because, like... if it's close enough to civilization, wall + genin guard is sufficient to defend it.

And we have infinite-money-o'clock.
 
Pinging @MMKII into this as well.



Summoner training is a full time job that is exclusive with pretty much everything else. If it seems like Noburi has plenty of time, that's either author error or simply an illusion of the medium based on the fact that he is only shown onscreen in the off hours, eg at dinner.

Regular training can be a few hours a day, especially when training things that cost a lot of chakra and can therefore only be fired once or twice per day.



Expectation management:
I actually don't know how the Dogs will feel about Hazō. The QMs have not discussed their personalities or priorities yet.

Also expectation management: We might or might not use any of the dogs from canon. Both because we don't necessarily want to be bound by their backgrounds and also because I quit watching the anime around the bridge fight, so I've never seen them summoned and have no idea what they're like. (I may have seen the summoning in a YouTube clip at some point, I don't recall. Regardless, I don't know their personalities.)

As to why I quit where I did:
Naruto's stupid catchphrase was like a wire brush grinding into my ears. I couldn't stand the pacing. (22 minute episode with three minutes of "previously, on Naruto" at the beginning, two minutes of "next time, on Naruto" at the end, fights consist mostly of standing around glaring at one another.) etc

"Flashback to a previous fucking flashback" is universally my breaking point.

It seems as if it could have been a great season- shame it got stretched over five.
 
Pinging @MMKII into this as well.
As to why I quit where I did:
Naruto's stupid catchphrase was like a wire brush grinding into my ears. I couldn't stand the pacing. (22 minute episode with three minutes of "previously, on Naruto" at the beginning, two minutes of "next time, on Naruto" at the end, fights consist mostly of standing around glaring at one another.) etc

Why not fast forward through intros, outros, and dull talking-while-supposedly-fighting scenes? I myself liberally apply the arrow keys when watching anime due to the repeated opening intros. Or just boring parts/lines of Japanese dialogue that I read subbed in the first 3 seconds but are taking a full 10 seconds to say aloud.
 
I'm not going to weigh in on the rest of the analysis, because I have mixed feelings on it. I just wanted to point out that the con "Akane with summoning and SC will make her too big of a target in Asuma's mind" also would apply to Hazou. Likely even moreso, considering higher risk of treachery+ sealsmith+ clan head. So it would apply to both, or neither I'd think.

It's a problem that decreases with time, since being strong enough makes it less of an issue. Look at Jiraiya. Or Asuma. Or...Keiko. Right. She's a Summoner with SC who also just went on a risky mission. So maybe it's more likely Asuma just doesn't trust Kagome with SC, and it isn't a factor otherwise?
"We go out and come back on the ground. I stay in the middle of the group and if there's anything dangerous then I run away on my skywalkers like a scared little girl and leave all those ANBU stinkers to die horrible screaming deaths."

Why not fast forward through intros, outros, and dull talking-while-supposedly-fighting scenes? I myself liberally apply the arrow keys when watching anime due to the repeated opening intros. Or just boring parts/lines of Japanese dialogue that I read subbed in the first 3 seconds but are taking a full 10 seconds to say aloud.

Why gnaw on a fossilized coconut when there are fresh cherries right over there?
 
...How much would it cost to buy a genin's services on an ongoing basis? Because, like... if it's close enough to civilization, wall + genin guard is sufficient to defend it.

Given Tsunade's horror stories about towns wiped off the map, and our own experiences with towns needing walls, I'd rather have one just in case. It'd take us --or any ninja with MEW --an afternoon to do it and it would provide some permanent much-needed protection... Though I wouldn't be opposed to hiring genin on top of that.
 
Hey, @Velorien? I know that I mentioned it offhand previously, but I wanted to repeat myself so that my statement wasn't brushed off or trivialized. Your latest chapter, where you have Mari and Hazou having a heart-to-heart, is one of the best character interactions I've ever read. And I'm being completely serious when I say that. You took the threads of their character arcs and bound them into a wonderful chapter.

Mari leads Hazou into privacy because she knows he wants to talk about something important, she's grown enough as a character to reveal her vulnerabilities to Hazou without feeling the need to erase his memory, Hazou's matured enough to be conflicted by his own eagerness out of an honest concern for someone else's agency, Mari admits to herself (and allows herself to feel) the maternal bittersweet pride that comes with seeing your child grow into an adult, and Mari seizes the opportunity to use her skills to build rather than break/warp --something she has precious little experience with. You were able to show character growth while simultaneously showing that they're still not perfect people (Hazou overthinking/obsessing and Mari undercutting herself).

This chapter is a perfect example of their respective character arcs, and I just wanted to take the time to commend you, genuinely, for it.
 
Given Tsunade's horror stories about towns wiped off the map, and our own experiences with towns needing walls, I'd rather have one just in case. It'd take us --or any ninja with MEW --an afternoon to do it and it would provide some permanent much-needed protection... Though I wouldn't be opposed to hiring genin on top of that.
Entirely coincidentally, this would put the genin of Konoha into direct, extended contact with civilians.
 
Entirely coincidentally, this would put the genin of Konoha into direct, extended contact with civilians.

I actually hadn't thought of this, but you're right. Especially if we expand the GED to the mining town, then that'll help the genin get a positive impression of the civilians. Judging from Asuma, Haru, and that one medic nin who took care of Haru's stepsister, it seems like the most common reason that ninja look down on civilians (other than the power difference) is that all ninja have a level of education that's generally impossible for a civilian to achieve.

So if we have an entire town of educated civilians, then it'll help undermine Leaf's systemic bigotry. So if we have week-long fertilization missions --which puts them in a partner dynamic rather than an inherently imbalanced guard/guarded dynamic --where squad of genin work side by side farmers, fertilizing entire fields, then they might just see that they're not so different from each other.

Not to mention there are still chores that we could help outsource to genin during non-planting seasons. Like harvesting crops, maintaining MEW-walls, clearing chakra beasts, and ferrying storage scrolls back and forth.

EDIT: added it to my "long term goals" list, so that once we get around to actually building the town, we'll have the notes as a resource
 
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Given Tsunade's horror stories about towns wiped off the map, and our own experiences with towns needing walls, I'd rather have one just in case. It'd take us --or any ninja with MEW --an afternoon to do it and it would provide some permanent much-needed protection... Though I wouldn't be opposed to hiring genin on top of that.

Effective walls would take civilians an afternoon if anybody could hear me...


Hey, @Velorien? I know that I mentioned it offhand previously, but I wanted to repeat myself so that my statement wasn't brushed off or trivialized. Your latest chapter, where you have Mari and Hazou having a heart-to-heart, is one of the best character interactions I've ever read. And I'm being completely serious when I say that. You took the threads of their character arcs and bound them into a wonderful chapter.

Mari leads Hazou into privacy because she knows he wants to talk about something important, she's grown enough as a character to reveal her vulnerabilities to Hazou without feeling the need to erase his memory, Hazou's matured enough to be conflicted by his own eagerness out of an honest concern for someone else's agency, Mari admits to herself (and allows herself to feel) the maternal bittersweet pride that comes with seeing your child grow into an adult, and Mari seizes the opportunity to use her skills to build rather than break/warp --something she has precious little experience with. You were able to show character growth while simultaneously showing that they're still not perfect people (Hazou overthinking/obsessing and Mari undercutting herself).

This chapter is a perfect example of their respective character arcs, and I just wanted to take the time to commend you, genuinely, for it.

Brace for impact, but this is your reminder that the thread voted to have the Mari Hazou spent most of a year getting to know and love as she learned to love him in return in a character redemption arc commit suicide out of political expediency over a vote the Gouketsu didn't even win. The new Mari is starting completely from scratch, quite possibly without even the Keiko emotional anchor which was the entire reason Hazou and Noburi were even invited along to survive the swamp, and she's only had, what, two months(?) of being bossed around by a brat barely-chuunin to develop any sort of emotional connection to him.

With redemption thoroughly reset, she's actually prime "surprise secret villain!" material. She has a forbidden technique which breaks the foundational rules of genjutsu, immediately and permanently renders her at least as sociopathic as Orochimaru, and she is now perfectly happy to use.
 
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[...] she's only had, what, two months(?) of being bossed around by a brat barely-chuunin to develop any sort of emotional connection to him.
"My little Hazō's all grown up…" Mari murmured. "Almost."

"What was that?"

"I said I was glad you've been thinking about these things," Mari said.

I'd argue that her warm acknowledgement of "my little" Hazou's growth is proof enough of her maternal feelings for him. And when Hazou didn't hear it, Mari didn't repeat it. If the words/smile was meant to be a ploy to get the "brat" under her thumb, she would've said something deliberately meaningful to strengthen Hazou's emotional connection to her, binding her clan head ever-closer to her. But Mari didn't do that. Instead, Mari did what she often does when feeling truly emotionally vulnerable: she deflected, spinning the spotlight back onto Hazou's growth.

I'd also argue that "this" Mari is still pretty damned similar to the "old" Mari. Enough that I would argue in favor of a continuation of consciousness, rather than a clear divide. She still loves Jiraiya (she reads his old books, learns more about him by comparing his earlier works to his newer ones), still worries about Akane, still teases Noburi, and still loves her little munchkins. I'd argue that, because of all of this, we can safely state that the emotional context that she's lost is --at least primarily --constrained to her years as the Heartbreaker and prior.

Then we have to consider that Mari was already well into the process of outgrowing the role of the Heartbreaker prior to that. So --in my opinion --this just makes the separation between Mari Gokgetsu and Mist's Heartbreaker even more distinct. A little like how a 50 year old isn't the same person he was when he was 15, just in a more literal sense because of chakra-fuckery.

Further, judging from Mari's shock, muted terror, and overall negative reaction to the revelation of the side effects of her technique (lots of thinking time, lots of chocolate, and lots of family time), I'd say that she's not likely to use her genjutsu unless it's where an alternative is worse than death. (edit: please don't break our hearts with this idea, oh merciful @Velorien, ever-gracious @eaglejarl , vigilant @OliWhail .)
 
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I'd argue that her warm acknowledgement of "my little" Hazou's growth is proof enough of her maternal feelings for him. And when Hazou didn't hear it, Mari didn't repeat it. If the words/smile was meant to be a ploy to get the "brat" under her thumb, she would've said something deliberately meaningful to strengthen Hazou's emotional connection to her, binding her clan head ever-closer to her. But Mari didn't do that. Instead, Mari did what she often does when feeling truly emotionally vulnerable: she deflected, spinning the spotlight back onto Hazou's growth.

I'd also argue that "this" Mari is still pretty damned similar to the "old" Mari. Enough that I would argue in favor of a continuation of consciousness, rather than a clear divide. She still loves Jiraiya (she reads his old books, learns more about him by comparing his earlier works to his newer ones), still worries about Akane, still teases Noburi, and still loves her little munchkins. I'd argue that, because of all of this, we can safely state that the emotional context that she's lost is --at least primarily --constrained to her years as the Heartbreaker and prior.

Then we have to consider that Mari was already well into the process of outgrowing the role of the Heartbreaker prior to that. So --in my opinion --this just makes the separation between Mari Gokgetsu and Mist's Heartbreaker even more distinct. A little like how a 50 year old isn't the same person he was when he was 15, just in a more literal sense because of chakra-fuckery.

Further, judging from Mari's shock, muted terror, and overall negative reaction to the revelation of the side effects of her technique (lots of thinking time, lots of chocolate, and lots of family time), I'd say that she's not likely to use her genjutsu unless it's where an alternative is worse than death. (edit: please don't break our hearts with this idea, oh merciful @Velorien, ever-gracious @eaglejarl , vigilant @OliWhail .)

She still has the same causally related declarative and procedural memory as Last-Mari, so the continuation of the illusion of persistent individual identity is blurry.

I'd argue that an elite-jounin infiltration spec with a year of close personal experience with Hazou knows precisely what he is capable of hearing and how he would react to pretenses otherwise.

Likewise any other interactions with her former team. She socially attacked Keiko. She went from, "you mean so much to me that I'd rather die", to casual use.

Like, there are signs that she's got a head start and is sincerely interested in her redemption, but that doesn't change the fact that she's starting again from scratch.

So far, she has shown some inclination to pursue identity coherence, but that is absolutely no guarantee that the resulting amalgamation is going to be anything Hazou will like. She has already risked the lives of the entire clan by delivering top-secret Leaf intel to a Mist jounin so she could use it to seize a summoning scroll to pursue her own independent goals as payment without so much as informing her Kage, or even clan head, much less either of hers.


Closer to five months, it's almost May.
Since she casually volunteered to use it on Naruto in the basement? Assuming that the last time we are aware of is the last time she has?
 
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Because that would be losing, and I'm too stubborn to lose to a coconut. How would I ever live it down?
The trick is to realize it's all framing. Losing is actually allowing your will to be captured by an inferior product, to be trapped into viewing something when you aren't actually enjoying it as presented and are having to skip large portions of it to make it relatively enjoyable. Winning is refusing to be trapped in the Lotus Machine, exercising your will in order to break free by closing the tab, and going off to find something of better quality.
 
Entirely coincidentally, this would put the genin of Konoha into direct, extended contact with civilians.

Genin should have a lot of contact with civilians, when this quest started we had a lot of contact with civilians after all, pretty sure most normal missions brings young teams in contact with them. Additionally just because they have more exposure doesn't mean they start caring, Sasuke grew up with a mostly civilian family and still calls them cattle. At best they start seeing them as more useful, it's really more of a weird cultural thing that they aren't doing this already.

They really should teach economics at the Academy.

Asuma: Oh yeah, my civilians are in danger, oh well I guess I don't need a good economy anyway.
(Asuma is inexpierenced, but that was just dumb, let's just hope he was overworked)

your child grow into an adult

She is his teacher so yes, she can be proud, but if you were to voice this like this to her she would probably be horrified. Mari actually respects Hana (and only ever apologized to her) and for good reasons, and in general Mari only thinks of Keiko as a daughter.

and Mari seizes the opportunity to use her skills to build rather than break/warp

Why should she even try to break Hazou? He is her emotional crutch and confidant.
 
@Dictator4Hire has entered the chat.
I prefer '(insert name here) I summon thee!'

Much more theatrical. :D

Noburi snorted. "Yeah, but how often is alcohol tolerance a major factor in government."
Oh you sweet, sweet summer child.

You have NO idea.

"So if you decide that you're not going to have a romantic relationship with Akane because of this, then you're deciding you'll never have a romantic relationship with anyone unless it's Ino or Hinata.
Not the most compelling argument to add to the mountain of reasons to marry Ino but if it acts as the final grain of rice to finally tip the balance into Hazou accepting I'm all for it.

"Realistically, the best thing we would get out of you marrying politically is reputability. That's the main resource we lack. We're not poor, and we're not weak, at least proportionally. But we're traitorous foreigners who have claimed parity with the loyal champions of Leaf using the authority of a man now dead, and have spent our less-than-a-year in existence promoting radical ideas that threaten the establishment, while having our clan head nearly executed for treason. I don't think even marrying Hinata, heir to the Hyūga tradition of village pride and blind conservatism, would put enough of a dent in that."
All the more reason to marry the social butterfly who can read minds. PR is, I would argue, our most glaring weakness since it's been responsible for getting us kill-boxed on multiple occasions.

...so what I'm hearing from this and the update is that we've at long last established our Merchant Empire/Spy Network combo, a long-held dream of the thread from our days as missing-nin. Huzzah!
I'm cautiously optimistic about it. I am very skeptical of Asuma letting us dissolve the Merchant Council since it fills a vital role in Leaf's organization in that it encourages ninjas to focus on military applications of chakra rather than economical ones. Leaf is still in a precarious position after recent in game world events so anything that would encourage Leaf ninja to spend their chakra aggressively to enrich themselves monetarily can quickly become an untenable race to the bottom. Ninja would be effectively bidding against one another for contracts eventually and that means more chakra has to be expended in order to keep up with the growing demand such a policy change would entail. This could and probably would lead to a 'chakra bubble' where every Leaf ninja and employer is trying to figure out exactly how much chakra for noncombat work should/could be worth. In a normal market this would result in a lot of fluctuation before supply and demand are clearly defined but when the currency we are talking about here also acts effectively as our home's ammunition outside forces such as hostile nations completely change the equation.

In the worst case scenario (that I can think of) Leaf would swell initially to such a degree that it is no longer economical to operate a business mundanely and then there is a sudden demand for soldiers that very in demand work force evaporates overnight. Not only would Asuma have to deal with whatever military crisis started this mess he would also have to reorganize Leaf's economy directly into a facsimile of what it is currently.

What we really need to do with our newfound wealth and revenus is to invest in ways for the civilians to become better at being Leaf's economic backbone. Introducing our historical technology into Leaf would be a game changer not only for Leaf's geopolitical/military standing but also for the quality of life of its citizens, charka-less civilians included. Simple factories and assembly/disassembly lines would greatly increase Leaf's manufactured goods output and after enough time has passed would help to create a positive feedback loop involving expanding our industrial capabilities through investment which in turn gain us more profits as we start to out compete our competition in local and international markets.

If I were Asuma I'd transition to having Till n Fill missions as a stop gap measure. Such missions would only be issued where there is a tangible and pressing need for ninja involvement where mundane means would not suffice. And before the argument is made about infinite chakra from the koi ponds I'll only say this: if the Wakahisa really have infinite chakra, why haven't they or Mist taken over the world yet? There has to be some limiting factor such as chakra regeneration or Wakahisa body/seal bottlenecks otherwise we'd all be bowing before our barrel banner-lords.

Think of chakra in civilian pursuits as lighter fluid: you use it to help start the fire but you don't use the whole bottle on one fire nor do you expect to fuel your fire with only the contents of that one bottle.
 
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