Ooh thread, lets work with oro to rez Jiraiya, then tie him up with a pretty pink bowand gift him to Asuma!

That's like, at least worth the fifth place prize!
 
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How does this work? Do we mention in a post that this is ideas for NPCs? Should we assume by default any ideas we submit might be used by NPCs? Should we give you ideas in
PM it to us.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail would yall be okay with me posting this to the saturday munchkin thread on rational?
I'm fine with it. @Velorien ? @OliWhail ?
What was the result of this conversation? What did Kagome say?
"What? Why do you want to talk about this now? Apropos of nothing, I looked in the silverware drawer this morning and all the spoons were missing. I think the lupchanzen ate them."
 
@eaglejarl: Huh, could we ask if command could make all the questions and answers asked about the context public? It'll save them time having to deal with duplicates, make secrecy a much less effective strategy, and make it feel much more fair to everyone.

I don't think this should have much Doylist effect on your work you'll probably be answering the same questions either way, with maybe a bonus to rolls trying to figure out what others are planning.

It also makes it harder to blindside us on a technicality, which the Hivemind should appreciate.

Also, command could just say "No" in which case we'd switch strategies from "get the best thing for Leaf within acceptable rules" to "get whatever Asuma would think good for Leaf". The latter means we're going to take into account pro-ninja, anti-civilian, and a-economic models that everyone else seems to have.

Fake Edit: Actually, why don't we just skip a step. I still think we should send a note to command suggesting public QAs for the competition, but as a playerbase we should just start evaluating our ideas with our best guess at Asuma's models, rather than models influenced by our own biases. (Even if the latter is better at predicting true outcomes than Asuma's)

Unrelated: We should give #4 to Haru if possible, with the stipulation that we get the adoption slots, and that otherwise his "Clan" serve the interests of the clanless of Leaf. It just hits so many boxes on the checklist at once.
  • Devalues the notion of a 'Clan'
  • Gives the clannless ninja of Leaf much needed representation
  • Creates a strong ally very fast
  • Allows us to get the notion of democratic egalitarianism into the minds of Leaf
  • Provides a strong connection to the civilian class
  • Turns a pile of unherdable cats into a single political block that has a vote
 
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Anyone whose interested in brainstorming ideas for NPCs lemme know and I'll add you to a group chat (if I can figure out how those work)
 
Basically I want to tell Asuma "Look, everyone else probably is coming in with the intent of negotiating to make the prize more valuable to themselves.
There's a part of me that feels like the response to this would be "Are you daft? If the Hokage offers a reward like this then it's take it or leave it, you don't get to negotiate." and I don't really want to risk making Hazou look like a buffoon again (in front of the Hokage no less) when the prizes he's specified are already very valuable unmodified.
 
There's a part of me that feels like the response to this would be "Are you daft? If the Hokage offers a reward like this then it's take it or leave it, you don't get to negotiate." and I don't really want to risk making Hazou look like a buffoon again (in front of the Hokage no less) when the prizes he's specified are already very valuable unmodified.

In particular #4 is weird, sure 3 extra adoption slots is great. But it leaves an absurd amount of value on the table, if we can tweak it even a little we make it an order of magnitude better.

Also, where #1 falls on the preference track changes depending on the exact land given, and #3 also shifts depending on what we're allowed to do with the jutsu.

I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact my model predicts the same thing if we ask in public, hence imagining it as a private conversation. Just saying that there is significant value to even minor negotiation, or simply getting information about the specifics of the prizes before we choose.
 
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Ideas:
  1. Trade with/do missions for the Pangolins to let us give all of Leaf:
    1. PCJ
    2. Ghost Scales
    3. Pantokrator's Hammer
    4. (In order(?) of preference for getting for Leaf)
  2. Finish skysliders - now you barely need to use skywalkers for traceless travel, and usage for battle is a very small amount of their overall duration.
  3. Get the 80-odd ninja from Isan, their families, their techniques, and sealing traditions into Leaf.
    1. They had a lot of sealmasters for their population size - that's potentially very high leverage.
    2. Might require that Asuma make a clan just for them - so they can preserve their culture.
  4. Work with Kabuto to reverse engineer Noburi's bloodline - now we have a new bloodline in Leaf that can be carried on.
  5. Go to Nagi Island and copy out the sealing array. See if we can figure out where the tailed beasts will reform and plan to reseal them - the gift is more jinchuuriki in Leaf ninja.
  6. Get Noda/other hacker to technique hack for us with some creativity. If we can't adopt them, we can throw cash at them.
    1. Multiple Earth Wall -> Multiple Steel Wall? Multiple Gold Wall? Instant-house technique?
    2. Elemental Mastery -> Unidirectional technique, but more bang per buck.
    3. [pangolin jutsu if they consent]
    4. Flame Aura is really strong...
  7. We have leverage into Mist with our old families - maybe build permanent alliances of some sort?
    1. Trade favors with Ami to get that which [insert literal genie phrasing here, basically we want to win the contest]
  8. We ran the numbers, boosting the amount of farmland and improving civvie lives dramatically improves production of everything in Fire, increases the population, and gives more future ninja (modulo scorch squads). Maybe actively work on adding safe farmland to Leaf, especially inside walled areas like we've put up.
  9. Get everyone in Leaf equipped with Banshee Fuckers + Banshee Slayers, if they're not already public. Stronger versions, if they're available in Jiraiya's notes. These are a pretty much unblockable attack, until other nation step up their sealtech game. Potentially could be used for an unstoppable alpha strike.
  10. Break logistics with Summoning Scrolls. Get Noburi on the Toad Scroll and have him and Keiko work together. Maybe between Leaf and Mist as a proof-of-concept for synergy with the alliance ideas? Both nations have a lot to gain from each other's comparative advantage.
  11. We might yet be within spitting distance of inventing gunpowder.
    1. When things burn, they make hot air.
    2. Hot air rises.
    3. Maybe if you trapped the hot air in, it would still want to rise?
    4. If it stayed trapped, maybe the heat spirits would work together to push the thing that's trapping it out?
    5. If the thing was stuck really hard, it would be like blowing a pea out of a piece of cane - by the time it moves, there's a lot of wind making it go fast.
    6. But how to produce a lot of hot air fast? Jutsu can do it, but there are things which burn faster than other things. What burns the fastest...?
  12. Work Jiraiya's "legacy" - bring missing-nin resources in
    1. Reliable agents from his network - we have the contacts
    2. People who fled other nations, maybe especially in the wake of recent events
    3. We don't have to bring them into the village wholesale - maybe ask them to trade some of their best jutsu in exchange for a quiet, expenses-paid retirement on the shores of Taro Island. More socially acceptable and still a win for Leaf.
I'm mostly in favor of the Dog Scroll - the rest are things we can buy with money. The boosted adoption slots in particular seem like a red herring - there are nearly 50 Clans, many of which are near defunct with 2 or 3 members, we should be able to buy their slots fairly easily.
 
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Also, where #1 falls on the preference track changes depending on the exact land given, and #3 also shifts depending on what we're allowed to do with the jutsu.
You understand that you're allowed to ask for the land you want, right? It's basically "10,000 acres of your choice, although I reserve the right to steer you somewhere else if I have to, but in that case I'll try to make sure you get something that still satisfies you."

As to the jutsu...I mean, you use them? It would probably be disfavored for you to give them to people from a different village, and maybe/maybe-not he'll give you something that's classified so it has to be kept clan-secret. What other restrictions did you think would be applied?
 
Wait, shit.

You're all mistaken.

THis isn't a munchkinning mission, this is a politicking mission in disguise. If we convince other clans to turn things in under our name that's a relatively easy win.

e: Similarly, the reverse is true.
 
Wait, shit.

You're all mistaken.

THis isn't a munchkinning mission, this is a politicking mission in disguise. If we convince other clans to turn things in under our name that's a relatively easy win.

e: Similarly, the reverse is true.
The question, then, is how much we care to invest in this. Giving Skysliders to the Tower is something we were gonna do anyways, and there is undoubtedly a good chunk of Jiraiya's notes that qualify as high-value to Leaf that we don't mind giving up, but when it comes to horse trading between clans how much are we willing to spend to get a spot on the winner's table?
 
The question, then, is how much we care to invest in this. Giving Skysliders to the Tower is something we were gonna do anyways, and there is undoubtedly a good chunk of Jiraiya's notes that qualify as high-value to Leaf that we don't mind giving up, but when it comes to horse trading between clans how much are we willing to spend to get a spot on the winner's table?
We could point out to various clans that as the inventors of skywalkers we have other things as well, and wouldn't it be best to make an exchange? Give us the dog scroll if you win and we'll give you the rest if we do.
 
We could point out to various clans that as the inventors of skywalkers we have other things as well, and wouldn't it be best to make an exchange? Give us the dog scroll if you win and we'll give you the rest if we do.
A bit of a tangent, but game theoretically is there any possible advantage to disguising our intents, aka pretending we aren't going for the goal here? I feel like making our intentions known would:
  • Discourage competitors from trying (as per my earlier remarks that the more people you're truly competing with the harder you have to go to be top 5)
  • Incentivize horse-trading or alliances as per your statement just now.
Is there any way that making it clear to all who ask that we're definitely going to be top 5 might hurt us?
 
Also, we need to find out where Keiko stands on this. Will she be neutral, supporting the Nara's bid, or supporting the Goketsu's bid?
 
how much are we willing to spend to get a spot on the winner's table?
A decent amount.

The real trick is talking to other potential ringers to figure out or push them to pick a certain thing.

So we should talk to Sasuke for example, and figure out which of these he most wants. If theres a collission for some reason, we can try to hash out a compromise behind the scenes before its even an issue.

Similarly, there is probably wiggle room for "You give X from option A and I give you Y from option B." for a lot of people.
 
@eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien

When you guys set up a research TN for the seal, and we roll against it and succeed, does the TN get decreased for further research rolls for that seal (similar to infusion TNs) ?
 
Oh, yeah. @eaglejarl, @Velorien, @OliWhail, what colour are Mari's eyes currently? What colour were they during the Snowflake interlude?
I'm pretty sure they haven't changed. Assume that's correct unless you hear otherwise.

It's faflec.response, you fucking casual.
faflec.brattyness.activate()
:p

@eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien

When you guys set up a research TN for the seal, and we roll against it and succeed, does the TN get decreased for further research rolls for that seal (similar to infusion TNs) ?
I don't think we've been doing that. Does it say so in the rules?
 
So, thoughts: what if we trade secrets, instead of directly to assume, to other clans in exchange for other secrets? Say we do it at a bargain; if we trade at 2:1 value with 5 different clans, it's a net positive for everyone. We get more of the rewards, leaf gets more overall value, and each clan we trade with gets to double their own pot except when compared with the other people we are trading with.
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail would yall be okay with me posting this to the saturday munchkin thread on rational?
DO IT

@eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien

When you guys set up a research TN for the seal, and we roll against it and succeed, does the TN get decreased for further research rolls for that seal (similar to infusion TNs) ?
Not for that same seal. I believe the idea was that *after you've completed* researching a seal, you get better at similar seals in the future - but not within a single project.
 
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