This is also an excellent idea that makes a lot of sense. I'm glad we thought of it the first time we discussed this technique way back when.

Of course this implies it actually exist in the world, therefore it is something Ami we can learn.
Hivemind infiltrated, Dread Lord Ami, awaiting orders.

This is an excellent idea. I'm glad we already discussed this exact idea whenever it is we originally commented on Body Flicker.

I am to please, but i would like to note that abusing the time travel function of the standard GM-package could bring unforeseen consequences.
You could have or not have an Ami ready to stab you in the back to take possession of the quest the second you go back in time, then again Ami stabs everyone in the back, so there isn't much difference.
I know i have one ready to do so just now,to me.
...
Or it was Zabuza?

This is fascinating to watch.

Players: Look at us munchkining every little thing we can to make QMs' lives miserable.

Also Players: Here are some rule proposals for QMs to play with. No hard feelings about how we abused your rules before, right?

QMs: No worries. Unrelatedly, Hazou has now regressed to the power level of a pre-academy student.

Love how this implies that the QMs need rules to destroy Hazou.
I'm 75 percent sure they have a folder with written on "In case of munchkining", plus the classic retcon button in case we, don't know, make a contract with a Eldricht Abomination, i mean, it should be theoretically possible, right?

Just to confirm, it's sunset and Mari-sensei will be back for dinner, right?

We can actually discuss things when Mari gets back.

We....are going to resolve the thing with Mari, by the way, unless we want to keep the relation on the Clan Leader/Subordinate, by the way.
We also need to say sorry, when it is time.
 
This is an excellent idea. I'm glad we already discussed this exact idea whenever it is we originally commented on Body Flicker. (pinging @faflec).

This is also an excellent idea that makes a lot of sense. I'm glad we thought of it the first time we discussed this technique way back when. (pinging @faflec some more; can we invoke the -1XP thing more than once per post?

@faflec are you capable of resisting pings at all?

E: oh, the urge to add an 'or' statement....

Wait, isn't this a technique for avoiding him?

Indeed. We will stalk Shin just to avoid him. Honestly, you should know your playerbase by now!
 
That clanless discussion got heated. I was just assuming the disciplinary issues were down to them lacking carrots and sticks. In the field it's got to be far easier to convince a Nara or Inuzaka raised with loyalty as their highest virtue with dozens of relatives at stake in the ninja forces (and make sure their kids get raised properly) to lie down and die to achieve the village's objectives than a careerist individual who might be in it just to rise socially, be the only parent their kid has left or their extended family's main finanicial provider. If you've got family to suffer you won't go missing-nin as easily, and you won't be as willing to reveal village/clan secrets if you do. Forming (properly indoctrinated) minor clans out of the clanless around reliable leadership figures like Jiriaya, Minato or Kakashi seems like a way of improving the village's internal security by the traditionalist clan's logic, giving the first generation a better support structure, equipment and stake in the village, and giving the next generation a proper indoctrination, training base and set of cousins (emotional support structure/hostages against betrayal).

One first step could be prioritising clanless genin going to vetted clanless jounin-sensei as a way to build close bonds to act as surrogate family.
 
That clanless discussion got heated. I was just assuming the disciplinary issues were down to them lacking carrots and sticks. In the field it's got to be far easier to convince a Nara or Inuzaka raised with loyalty as their highest virtue with dozens of relatives at stake in the ninja forces (and make sure their kids get raised properly) to lie down and die to achieve the village's objectives than a careerist individual who might be in it just to rise socially, be the only parent their kid has left or their extended family's main finanicial provider. If you've got family to suffer you won't go missing-nin as easily, and you won't be as willing to reveal village/clan secrets if you do. Forming (properly indoctrinated) minor clans out of the clanless around reliable leadership figures like Jiriaya, Minato or Kakashi seems like a way of improving the village's internal security by the traditionalist clan's logic, giving the first generation a better support structure, equipment and stake in the village, and giving the next generation a proper indoctrination, training base and set of cousins (emotional support structure/hostages against betrayal).

One first step could be prioritising clanless genin going to vetted clanless jounin-sensei as a way to build close bonds to act as surrogate family.

You, know we may want to make an actual proposal to the Clan Council around this idea sometime later. Assuming we will live to the moment when domestic Leaf affairs are not a giant trainwreck.

Remind the Council about precedent of allowing missing-nin to becomes part of a village;
Expand on how other villages may want to do the same thing to strenghten themselves;
Make note of how more people would want to go missing-nin if they would knew there is a chances they will get forgiveness and place to live;
Propose the Clanless Indoctrination Plan as counter-measure.

(optionally) follow with a Missing-nin Recruitment Programm proposal before other villages started either of programms.

E:

Also worth noticing that during BotG every ninja fought alongside their former enemies and each village showed courage and various positive properties. Observing these feats will diminish some of the effects of old propaganda, stating that other villages are brute demons or whatever. I expect an increase in missing-nin ranks from this point onward
 
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(optionally) follow with a Missing-nin Recruitment Programm proposal before other villages started either of programms.
If Missing-nin recruitment goes on for a significant time then villages will start having "missing nin" that are really infiltration specialists. I assume use of the tactic (and perhaps some samurai honor stuff seeping in) is why recruiting missing-nin is so taboo. Leaf does have an advantage in the area though since they have the Yamanaka.
 
If Missing-nin recruitment goes on for a significant time then villages will start having "missing nin" that are really infiltration specialists. I assume use of the tactic (and perhaps some samurai honor stuff seeping in) is why recruiting missing-nin is so taboo. Leaf does have an advantage in the area though since they have the Yamanaka.

Well, its bad from villages' perspective, but it will help the Uplift.

The USSR actually started to cokkapse only when people were allowed to abroad and have some intercultural experience. Sure, there were other factors involved, but this one was one of the more significant
 
We have contracts that are eldritch abominations. Incidentally I'd like to complain to the person or entity that made the summoning scrolls, had God like sealing abilities and used them to play pokemon instead of doing something more useful.

I mean like [UNPRONUNCIABLE] Or [°?!°!##] or other entities like that.
You know, things you find in the Out and make you crazy Lovecraft style, nothing less for the best sealmaster in the world.
Let's see you beat that, Nagato "I resurrect people".
 
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I am to please, but i would like to note that abusing the time travel function of the standard GM-package could bring unforeseen consequences.
You could have or not have an Ami ready to stab you in the back to take possession of the quest the second you go back in time, then again Ami stabs everyone in the back, so there isn't much difference.
I know i have one ready to do so just now,to me.
...
> implying Ami hasn't already taken over


Love how this implies that the QMs need rules to destroy Hazou.
I'm 75 percent sure they have a folder with written on "In case of munchkining", plus the classic retcon button in case we, don't know, make a contract with a Eldricht Abomination, i mean, it should be theoretically possible, right?
> implying the "make Hazō suffer" doc is separate from the master doc.

We have contracts that are eldritch abominations.
That is no way to talk about the Nara.

Where does Keiko keep the pangolin scroll? Does she carry it around or is it in our basement underneath a pile of cracked knuckle bones somewhere...?
It must be kept on your person in order to perform summoning (which is why Jiraiya brought the Toad scroll to the Battle of the Gods). Otherwise it can be left anywhere (such as a secure part of the Gōketsu compound).

Edit: Keiko personally carries her scroll with her by default. You have not established whether she brings it into locations such as the public baths in case the answer is an emphatic yes.
 
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It must be kept on your person in order to perform summoning (which is why Jiraiya brought the Toad scroll to the Battle of the Gods). Otherwise it can be left anywhere (such as a secure part of the Gōketsu compound).

I assume that means the Leaf contingent brought them (Snake and Toad) back.

Fuck it's going to be some Clan council vote on who is getting it.

@faflec , We should send messages to the Snakes and Keiko should talk with the Toads, like right now.
 
It must be kept on your person in order to perform summoning (which is why Jiraiya brought the Toad scroll to the Battle of the Gods). Otherwise it can be left anywhere (such as a secure part of the Gōketsu compound).
Which means that if anyone has the Snake Summoning scroll, it's either Tsunade or some opportunistic survivor of the battle. Or Orochimaru if he's alive, of course.

Edit:
Zabuza'd :ninja:
 
It must be kept on your person in order to perform summoning (which is why Jiraiya brought the Toad scroll to the Battle of the Gods). Otherwise it can be left anywhere (such as a secure part of the Gōketsu compound).

And how resilient are those?
Because, you know, Kagome bliss and all that.
This aside, it also means that...uhm, this is something to think about, let me check something for a second.
 
And how resilient are those?
Because, you know, Kagome bliss and all that.
This aside, it also means that...uhm, this is something to think about, let me check something for a second.
Indestructible. As far as we know, scrolls cannot be destroyed.

Edit:
This further incentivizes us to use the scrolls as armor, since we have to keep them with us anyway...

Edit 2:
Daaaaaaaang, it's a good thing Keiko didn't get knocked out in the exams. Someone could have just taken the scroll, and at best she wouldn't have been able to summon. Like us stealing Kiri's barrel.
At worst the pangolins might have gotten a new summoner. :confused:
 
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I assume the Akatsuki recovered their scrolls?
Because it's possible that in the chaos, they just ran away without thinking about it.(Even if the idea of Kisame searching for his scroll for half and hours it's pretty funny, it would be a good omake)
Either way, if tomorrow we see Kisame and Itachi and the entrance of Konoha, slighly pissed, and with the rest of the Akatsuki, we know why.
Remember kids, don't steal summoning scrolls unless you're positive the S-rank ninja you took it from will NOT come back to life.
 
We better hope not, of Akatsuki attacked the Leaf tight now I bet they would win. We don't want their scrolls until/unless we have a way to keep them.
 
Yes, asking about her plans is not an issue. Regarding advice — perhaps just describe what we're planning to do and ask if we're making any cruc—
Oh. Nevermind that, then. (She's totally murdering Hiashi.)

I've made an alternative version; I think it has more efficient wording in the "Naruto" and "Misc" sections, and preserves more of Roomba's guidelines for the Tsunade discussion, which I feel are fairly important:

  • Read Jiraiya's will and answers. If he left instructions for this situation, follow them.
  • Meetings (optimize with the clan):
    • Tsunade:
      • Guidelines:
        • Be firm, but respectful: This concerns the future of the clan you're responsible for. Don't be aggressive, but don't let her intimidate or dismiss you.
        • Be serious and direct: You can't manipulate her, and she hates wasting time.
        • Show measured sympathy: Tsunade just lost her lifelong teammates.
          • Don't overdo it: she'll hate being coddled.
      • Discussion:
        • Deliver Jiraiya's message. Offer condolences.
        • Naruto: We plan to adopt him, as Jiraiya wanted. Can we visit him?
        • Hiashi's (?) broadsheet: Is it accurate?
        • Hokageship:
          • The broadsheet suggests that Hiashi's faction plans to go to war with Rock and Cloud — that's immediately after we suffered heavy losses. The war may well destroy us. Even if Leaf wins, it will compound the damage Akatsuki inflicted, crippling the village system for generations.
          • If we instead capitalize on the facts that all major villages fought against a common foe, and that only together we could oppose them again, we could attempt to build a lasting peace.
          • For that, is she willing to make a bid for the hat? She's our best chance against Hiashi.
          • (gallows humor) At worst, she'll only suffer for a few years, until Naruto takes over.
          • Also: Young clanless ninja seem to believe it's illegal for "mudfeet" to become mednin. She's fine with it?
          • If she's unwilling, who should we support?
      • Thank her for her time. You'll always welcome her advice. You're going to need it.
    • Naruto (IFF he's functional):
      • Introduce yourselves. Offer condolences. If Jiraiya left him anything, pass it on.
      • "Jiraiya wanted us to adopt you. But it's your choice: we'll support either decision."
      • Will he make a bid for the hat? Or support Tsunade (if she's willing)?
  • Other:
    • Ask Mari about:
      • Clan heads' rights and duties.
      • How clan secrets work.
      • Other clan heads and their political leanings.
    • Kagome: Is he willing to teach more apprentices?
    • Investigate:
      • Adoption targets: Nakano's team, Lee, clanless jounin like Kabuto.
      • The broadsheet:
        • Who printed it? The Nara should know.
        • Gauge public sentiment towards other villages (visit bars, newscenters, hospitals).
        • Ask Minori what really happened?
The line where we ask Tsunade if she's okay with clanless thinking it's illegal for them to become mednin has my mental model of Tsunade start absolutely lambasting Hazou for some reason. It feels like defiance/challenge/manipulation/something of the sort that would provoke her. It's still a good line, very Hazou-thinking, but I feel we need to be steeled for the backlash. If she gets angry at us for the statement and we back down, we'll lose a ton of cred in her eyes, but if we stand strong she won't hold it against us much.
Edited, more or less. @Noumero I made some minor changes to your proposal (wording), and may make more once I have a bigger screen to read from.
I assume that means the Leaf contingent brought them (Snake and Toad) back.

Fuck it's going to be some Clan council vote on who is getting it.

@faflec , We should send messages to the Snakes and Keiko should talk with the Toads, like right now.
I can add this but will need specifics. What, exactly, are we talking about?
[X] Action Plan: Gathering Allies

Word Count: Later.
  • Check and follow Jiraiya's will and answers for instructions on this situation.

  • Meetings (optimize with the clan):
    • Tsunade:
      • Guidelines:
        • Be firm, but respectful: This concerns the future of the clan you're responsible for. Don't be aggressive, but don't let her intimidate or dismiss you.
        • Be serious and direct: You can't manipulate her, and she hates wasting time.
        • Show measured sympathy: Tsunade just lost her lifelong teammates.
          • Don't overdo it, though: she'll hate being coddled.
      • Discussion:
        • Deliver Jiraiya's message. Offer condolences.
        • Naruto: We plan to adopt him, as Jiraiya wanted. Can we visit him?
        • Hiashi's (?) broadsheet: Is it accurate?
        • Hokageship:
          • The broadsheet suggests Hiashi's faction plans to go to war with Rock and Cloud — immediately after we suffered heavy losses. The war may well destroy us. Even if Leaf wins, it will compound the damage Akatsuki inflicted, crippling the village system for generations.
          • If we instead capitalize on the facts that all major villages fought against a common foe, and that only together we could oppose them again, we could attempt to build a lasting peace.
          • For that, is she willing to make a bid for the hat? She's our best chance against Hiashi.
          • (gallows humor) At worst, she'll only suffer for a few years, until Naruto takes over.
          • Also: Young clanless ninja seem to believe it's illegal for "mudfeet" to become mednin. She's fine with it?
            • If this provokes her, stand your ground.
          • If she's unwilling, who should we support?
      • Thank her for her time. You'll always welcome her advice. You're going to need it.
    • Naruto (IFF he's functional):
      • Introduce yourselves. Offer condolences. If Jiraiya left him anything, pass it on.
      • "Jiraiya wanted us to adopt you. But it's your choice: we'll support either decision."
      • Will he make a bid for the hat? Or support Tsunade (if she's willing)?

  • Ask questions:
    • Mari:
      • Clan heads' rights and duties.
      • How clan secrets work.
      • Other clan heads and their political leanings.
    • Kagome: Is he willing to teach more apprentices?

  • Investigate:
    • Adoption targets: Nakano's group, Lee, clanless jounin like Kabuto.
    • The broadsheet:
      • Who printed it? The Nara should know.
      • Gauge public sentiment towards other villages (visit bars, newscenters, hospitals).
      • Ask Minori what really happened?
 
DYK. I should mention that this is my fault, not @eaglejarl's. However, I believe my point of view is still mostly valid. This is the only time I remember this technique being used in combat, even though it's very nearly teleportation, and indeed in the link Hanzō uses it to dodge a really powerful technique. By contrast, we see a dozen ninja use it without seals or words in Episode 1 alone. Kishimoto clearly just thought it was cool.

Compare the Substitution Technique. The first time we see it, Kakashi substitutes with one of Naruto's shadow clones, causing him to believe that said clone was now Kakashi in disguise and attacking him. I invite you to ponder the implications of being able to substitute with unwilling targets.

To expand briefly and non-polemically on @eaglejarl's post on politics, I should mention that we've consciously written the majority of characters as far too liberal for the setting, especially Hazō himself in terms of his inner thinking process. Hazō doesn't have a racist, xenophobic, authoritarian bone in his body, despite having been born and brought up in a state where Yagura's equivalent of Mein Kampf is required school reading, the histories are deliberately written so as to demonise the other villages, and anyone considered a foreign sympathiser is an enemy of the people and deserving of the death penalty. Oh, and 90something percent of the world's population are subhuman and have no rights, including the right to life. Yagura's Mist is both partially inspired by, and a lot worse than, Stalinist USSR.

For perspective, it took Russian state propaganda a matter of years to convince a significant chunk of its people, probably even the majority, that the West hates Russia and wants to destroy it; that said West used mind-controlling drugs to influence the Ukrainian elections; that the instances of poisoning of prominent Russian expats in the UK are lies concocted by the enemy; that Muslims will soon take over the world due to a higher birth rate and disrespect for native laws and institutions, and so on and so forth. Even some of the most intelligent, open-minded people I know have subscribed to elements of this ideology (notably Krym Nash, "Crimea is ours").

OK, maybe that wasn't that brief or unpolemical. But the general takeaway point is that if we were truly simulationist about the characters' beliefs in this setting, it would be a vile place to live (reminder: at the corresponding point in RL history, women were still largely treated as property), and few if any of the people in this community would want to play in it.


Personally I always saw Hazo's views being so conflicting to his society's norms because of a mix of his questioning nature, traditional views being sort of ineffective in the face of his parent's elopment and happy marriage, and his experiences as a missing-nin.

Well that or he's just a


As for the woman bit, I actually feel like that's a lot more realistic in a setting where a single person can potentially become a walking WMD. Generally women would have more powers in time periods where the extra help was important or needed, like Sparta when men were drafted and doing their service while women managed the homefront, or when women could vote earlier in western America than in the east since they were pulling their weight developing the Wild West.

Once there are powerful enough kunoichis in place I doubt you can go back so easily.

Random dude: Here are some reforms I feel have been necessary for a long time, regarding a woman's proper place in society.

Ren: No

Hana: Fuck no

Tsunade: Oh someone is looking to get their legs broken

Mari: Pfft, ok try it and see how that goes

Ami: *laughing in AMI*

Minori: I'm traumatized and pissed off, I dare you to do it

Keiko: *giving you THE GLARE ×10*

Mei: YOU THINK I WOULDN'T HAVE SETTLED DOWN ALREADY IF I COULD?! (Ok maybe she's not the best example)
 
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I presume the Sage shared his teachings with women too (giving everyone a new tool of peace and communication means everyone).
Furthermore, a long era of war will naturally mean more women will enter positions of clearly recognized power and responsibility.

So you have women who know chakra, and women becoming increasingly directly important in society (and presumably important in battle, too).
You going to try to oppress women now that they've got punch-wizards?
Yeah, thought so.
 
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I want to start a secret base somewhere. Get some civilians onto an island, give them MEW buildings and walls. Have them do admin work / medknow research for us in exchange for food shipments.
 
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