I did some research into that question. I admit that I am wrong in that respect.
OK, let supposes they have good math. It doesn't mean that they have economic theory as we understand it.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
I did some research into that question. I admit that I am wrong in that respect.
OK, let supposes they have good math. It doesn't mean that they have economic theory as we understand it.
Not if you're not trying to model anything.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I would not be surprised at all if Leaf's trade is not bottlenecked by transit costs as much as it is by the fact that the vast majority of people are just farming enough food to survive with a tiny surplus that in large aggregate can feed small cities with craftsmen.
I think we should at least be prepared for the answer of "This plan would have merit if there was more stuff to trade but here and now the benefits are marginal at best."
I think we should at least be prepared for the answer of "This plan would have merit if there was more stuff to trade but here and now the benefits are marginal at best."
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
I must disagree on that point. The major problem exposed in the last update update was completely predicated on the realities of international trade. If it is going to effect national politics, it is by definition important. Also, Adam Smith style trade based wealth growth was practiced and predicated well in advance of the industrial revolution.
Threnodist
occupying Haudenosaunee & Osage land she/her/hers
- Location
- Pittsburgh
This might just be because economics isn't my field of study but wasn't Smith A) A contemporary of the industrial revolution and B) responding to mercantilism, which is very much not a trade heavy economic system?
Also could you expand upon what you mean that the problems in the last update are predicated upon international trade existing
Trade in bulk goods is likely to be done via boats on major rivers and ocean. The rest is in luxuries or things that have high enough value to be traded.
And given how good boats already are at transporting goods, I do not necessarily see why storage seals would have much effect.
Classical economic developed during the industrial revolution, so you're right in that respect. The problem is that @MadScientist asserts they would know anything that sophisticated in a medieval society.
Mercantilism is absolutely based on trade, but it is based on protectionism and high tariff, which poses a barrier to World Peace and the development of interdependence among the Elemental Nations.
Threnodist
occupying Haudenosaunee & Osage land she/her/hers
- Location
- Pittsburgh
When I said not based on trade I meant international trade, not internal trade. My bad
Well, they do advocate accumulation of favorable balance of trade and the maximization of as much export as possible, but this is in the pursuit of autonomy, which is not as conducive to world peace.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
For anything to get done IRL you need:
1) A pile of math
2) A pile of processing power
3) A pile of relevant and accurate data
Perhaps a handful of individuals (by that I mean literally 4-5 max) in the EN have access to the above in any meaningful way, to the extent they could actually model something accurately. So its a moot point.
Pretty much this.
This is nothing that we can't solve with standard Uplift ideas on the same level of difficulty as "Go around Fire and start throwing up walls to stop the hamlets from being overrun by chakra beasts." We can till and fertilize their soil (with the corpses of said chakra beasts) while we're at it.
Threnodist
occupying Haudenosaunee & Osage land she/her/hers
- Location
- Pittsburgh
Hmm, I was about to say something along the lines of "globalization doesn't lead to peace, it just doesn't lead to war" but then I realized that the political and territorial situation in the EN is vastly different to what happened in the real world. Do we have any idea if there are other continents?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
No clue. Everyone that tries to leave gets disappeared IIRC
If other continent exists, they are completely irrelevant for our purpose. While greater trade doesn't necessarily lead to peace, it provides a greater disincentive for wars. Other steps, to be determined, must be taken.
Threnodist
occupying Haudenosaunee & Osage land she/her/hers
- Location
- Pittsburgh
I meant more along the lines that the EN are in a situation where they are all roughly equal in power, which means that if a liberalized economy happens there will still be losers and winners within each country, but it wont be like in the real world where the Global South has been fucked over by colonialism and then neo-colonialism.
I also consider the presence of other continents necessary for our discussion of trade because intercontinental colonial empires was a main factor in promoting a mercantile system.
Disappeared as in they die at sea or as in they get killed for attempting to leave?
All of this rather seems to me to be the equivalent of having a hammer and therefore assuming your problems are nails.
Maybe they're nails, maybe they aren't, but there's no need to get there by theorycrafting when you can go out and investigate first.
Maybe they're nails, maybe they aren't, but there's no need to get there by theorycrafting when you can go out and investigate first.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
JIRAIYA: The problem is screws, actually.
HAZOU: Ah, okay.
HIVEMIND: We'll have all-purpose screwdrivers in a month designed for you to build, don't worry kid.
More seriously, do you think that its beneficial to just question him for some specifics of the situation when we can propose a potential solution and get specifics on the situation if the solution doesn't work for some reason? They take the same amount of time to get anywhere, and the latter is obviously more advantageous for us (it could work, gets J thinking about large storage scrolls at least).
From a narrative perspective, packaging discussion and solution makes sense in order to ensure conservation of words in a story update.
From real world perspective, if you want to solve a problem first go out and talk to people about what their problems actually are. Not even talking to Jiraiya; what the fuck does he know? I mean, weeks or months talking to actual merchants, gathering facts, finding out how trade actually works and what their needs really are. User focused design. Maybe the problem isn't storage but something else that could be better solved with an entirely different branch of sealing tech.
It may be necessary from a quest limitations perspective to do it the first way, but it's the same sort of approach that leads Silicon Valley to reinvent buses.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
- No one who has left the Elemental Nations seeking new land has ever come back to talk about it.
- Kagome says that Hidden Depths kills anyone who tries.
Still not something to try when we're needed at home, but an option nonetheless.
We probably want to do incremental expeditions, establishes waystations and rest stops, learn how to navigate and whatnot.
And oh, figure out the size of the world.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
If IRL history is any indication, we should already have a pretty good guess about the size of the world just from some dude a thousand years ago measuring shadows on the south and north end of the continent. Figuring out that the world is round and approximately how big it is is old stuff.
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
No worries.
A.
The Wealth of Nations was published March 9, 1776, so I would say that the industrial revolution was just getting going. Most of what he talks about is english style specialization of labor rather than mechanization.
B.
His conclusions opposed their policies, but that was not the only reason he wrote it.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
They do all their trade by ship. Hmm..
We should just be able to ferry all of their trade over the ocean through to ports in Iron (by ship or by ninja). From there, everything can proceed on foot. Or we set up some sort of trade depot in Iron.
Between Cloud and Leaf (lets let Rock in on it as well) there should be enough force to back up this arrangement. We can probably cut nearby minor villages in on it too.
Could serve as a Ninja UN prototype too....
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Ninja UN sounds great to me.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Then again training with someone who always becomes as good as you immediately would be about the most effective way to train Taijutsu that I can think of.
Edit: Besides of course having a cheating eye of our own.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
So... other things we need to ask Jiraiya about now that we're back: Oversized storage seals, and if they're an OPSEC risk. If not, well...
Things they can be used for:
Storage seals are great.
e:
Things they can be used for:
- Throwing a bus at punching speed
- Creating a wall as a supplemental action
- Throwing a bus at Kei-throwing-speed
- Throwing an arena-sized net at Kei-throwing speed
- Actually we should do this one regardless, nets work well with PMYF too.
Storage seals are great.
e:
Require the plan to say "If necessary, use a planning point", then. (or just use a [PP] tag on relevant sections, maybe?)
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It seems to me it doesn't resolve the complexity questions.