Chances are we aren't even going to break even, but I'm fairly sure we could if there was unanimous thread approval. It'd involve taking risks though.

Highest impact things we could do that have large positive impacts, without a huge amount of delay:
  • Clear huge areas of chakra beasts with The Power of Love and Totally Not Nukes.
  • Prevent ninja war with Overwhelming Kindness and Totally Not Superior Weapons Technology.
  • Civilian-usable sealtech with, uh... Civilian Sealtech and Totally Not Eldritch Horrors?
  • (Maybe) remove key tyrants with Mutual Respect and Totally Not Broken Game Mechanics.
Here are some that would take more effort, but are still feasible:
  • Construct some kind of peace among the nations.
  • Structured ninja-aided construction projects for civilians (trenches, housing, roads).
  • Farming projects for high-output food production, likely with ninja aid.

Can you add "Attain godlike power and rewrite reality so that literally none of these problems exist?" Seems worth mentioning as at least a footnote in terms of impact.

Given, most reasonable paths are not without delay or risk, but they're inversely correlated and it's fairly continuous over both. For instance, if we really wanted, we could get creative. Maybe drop out of the exams to go hunt for Pein and demand his eyeballs an audience.
 
I think the fastest way to turn this quest into a larger-scale one is to drop Hazou and pursue a strategy as described here:
We've settled on long-term single-host strategy with Hazou, but I suspect it's suboptimal on grand-scale. We have a massive advantage in our ability to continue imposing our values upon the world after our host's death, but this strategy doesn't utilize it at all.

There are strategies that leverage it. We could use our hosts as one-time agents for quick, highly important, suicidal tasks, such as information-gathering, terror attacks, assassinations, or experimentation, employing our natural creativity and strategic positioning to complete them with a mere genin's resources.

It'd be fascinating: a pair of demigods against an interdimensional hivemind capable of possessing random genin all over the Elemental Nations! Asymmetric warfare! Complex ideological disputes! Intense conflicts with smart enemies! Creative, transhumanistic strategies! High-stakes high-power highly-abstract plot! Physics phun (village-scale or less) largely unrestrained by fear of collateral damage!
But the thread is understandably unlikely to pursue it.
 
Chances are we aren't even going to break even, but I'm fairly sure we could if there was unanimous thread approval. It'd involve taking risks though.

Highest impact things we could do that have large positive impacts, without a huge amount of delay:
  • Clear huge areas of chakra beasts with The Power of Love and Totally Not Nukes.
  • Prevent ninja war with Overwhelming Kindness and Totally Not Superior Weapons Technology.
  • Civilian-usable sealtech with, uh... Civilian Sealtech and Totally Not Eldritch Horrors?
  • (Maybe) remove key tyrants with Mutual Respect and Totally Not Broken Game Mechanics.
Here are some that would take more effort, but are still feasible:
  • Construct some kind of peace among the nations.
  • Structured ninja-aided construction projects for civilians (trenches, housing, roads).
  • Farming projects for high-output food production, likely with ninja aid.
Regarding the stuff that will directly affect civilians, that might actually be an experiment the Hivemind could do to determine the chances of scorch squads existing. We pitch the idea of Spending a small amount of resources to dramatically improve civilian lives in villages, and make sure we mention all the benefits of doing this. If scorch squads exist (and Jiraiya knows about them), he'll find some reason that this would be a bad idea. So, if Jiraiya okays the mission, scorch squads are much less likely to exist (and we can check back in with villages afterwards to see if a bunch of them get mysteriously burnt to the ground by 'missing nin'). If Jiraiya finds some excuse for why not we shouldn't spend a small amount of resources to dramatically improve Leaf's power base by increasing the population of civilians, then it's more likely that scorch squads exist.
 
This reminds me, we should probably get a list of proposed experiments (physical, educational, medical or otherwise) as well as some stuff to start (Summoning scrolls) over the break.
 
Alright. First of all, I want to greet everybody here. I got pointed to this quest from a different forum and so I've spent the past few days reading it. Obviously, I read through the story thread because I'm not spending weeks reading through 4000 pages of discussion. So I want to share a few thoughts I had about it, starting with things I did like:
  • It's pretty good, overall. It's been going for a while, and it has a very hefty length, and it doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon. You have some nice OC going, with good characterization, my favorites being Kagome and Akane. Especially Kagome. Every update with him is always a ton of fun.
  • Love what you've done with the setting so far. The setting is the best part about the original Naruto, when it was just about sneaky ninjas doing ninja magic. You know, up to about the Chunin exam arc.
  • Speaking of what made Naruto bad, you're actually good at controlling the powercreep. The quest started two and a half years ago, and there's a substantial lack of mechs punching giant demons in the face. It feels like the characters can still fail, and they often do, and there's often consequences for it.
There's also things I didn't like, such as the changes to some canon characters, like making Rock Lee a complete joke, but overall the positives outweigh the negatives. Also, before I forget! It shouldn't matter to someone reading the quest in real time, but to anybody joining in, there are some gaps between the end of a post and the begging of the next one. That's where the discussion, planning and voting are, but as far as I've seen, you don't mention it in your posts as to what plans won. For me it would have been great if I could see the plan that the players came up with, along with the post that the QM wrote.

I'd also like to chime in on the recent discussion. Again, I don't know what's the long-term goal of the hivemind, beyond what's been said in-game, so I'd love it if somebody could link me to that, or explain it in some detail. However, saying that in this quest it's impossible to achieve any kind of long-term goal is unfair. We went from wanted criminals on the run to the heir to a clan in control of the strongest military in the world. There is clearly some progression.

Also, what's the general opinion of our situation with Akane, and how do you guys want to proceed? I think the relationship can still be salvaged. Hazou was for two years the leader of a squad of missing-nin. Yes, theoretically it was Mari, but Hazou was the guy with the plan. It was only natural for him to think of everybody on the team as resources. But the situation has changed, and she's no longer part of our team out on a long mission, right? So, I think we give it a week or so for her to cool off, and then go in with some flowers and chocolate, say we're sorry, explain the whole thing to her. If she wants, we could still be a couple, and do normal couple things like on dates, and training ninja skills together and what not, but Hazou stops thinking of her as a part of his team that he has control over and responsibilities towards. What do you guys think?
 
That's where the discussion, planning and voting are, but as far as I've seen, you don't mention it in your posts as to what plans won. For me it would have been great if I could see the plan that the players came up with, along with the post that the QM wrote.
The winning plans are hyperlinked in the chapter titles, actually.


Also, what's the general opinion of our situation with Akane, and how do you guys want to proceed? I think the relationship can still be salvaged. Hazou was for two years the leader of a squad of missing-nin. Yes, theoretically it was Mari, but Hazou was the guy with the plan. It was only natural for him to think of everybody on the team as resources. But the situation has changed, and she's no longer part of our team out on a long mission, right? So, I think we give it a week or so for her to cool off, and then go in with some flowers and chocolate, say we're sorry, explain the whole thing to her. If she wants, we could still be a couple, and do normal couple things like on dates, and training ninja skills together and what not, but Hazou stops thinking of her as a part of his team that he has control over and responsibilities towards. What do you guys think?
I think the general opinion is that its sort of unhealthy for the both of them. Hazou has a problem respecting other peoples agency and Akane has her own issues atm. I think the gameplan is to leave it alone for a bit (until Hana gives us some advice on that hopefully in the next chapter) and then just patch things up and be friends.

The character dynamic was totally fine when everyone was trying not to get murdered in the wild every day, but now that we're in Leaf it seems like the relationship has changed somewhat.
 
Alright. First of all, I want to greet everybody here. I got pointed to this quest from a different forum and so I've spent the past few days reading it. Obviously, I read through the story thread because I'm not spending weeks reading through 4000 pages of discussion. So I want to share a few thoughts I had about it, starting with things I did like:
  • It's pretty good, overall. It's been going for a while, and it has a very hefty length, and it doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon. You have some nice OC going, with good characterization, my favorites being Kagome and Akane. Especially Kagome. Every update with him is always a ton of fun.
  • Love what you've done with the setting so far. The setting is the best part about the original Naruto, when it was just about sneaky ninjas doing ninja magic. You know, up to about the Chunin exam arc.
  • Speaking of what made Naruto bad, you're actually good at controlling the powercreep. The quest started two and a half years ago, and there's a substantial lack of mechs punching giant demons in the face. It feels like the characters can still fail, and they often do, and there's often consequences for it.
There's also things I didn't like, such as the changes to some canon characters, like making Rock Lee a complete joke, but overall the positives outweigh the negatives. Also, before I forget! It shouldn't matter to someone reading the quest in real time, but to anybody joining in, there are some gaps between the end of a post and the begging of the next one. That's where the discussion, planning and voting are, but as far as I've seen, you don't mention it in your posts as to what plans won. For me it would have been great if I could see the plan that the players came up with, along with the post that the QM wrote.

I'd also like to chime in on the recent discussion. Again, I don't know what's the long-term goal of the hivemind, beyond what's been said in-game, so I'd love it if somebody could link me to that, or explain it in some detail. However, saying that in this quest it's impossible to achieve any kind of long-term goal is unfair. We went from wanted criminals on the run to the heir to a clan in control of the strongest military in the world. There is clearly some progression.

Also, what's the general opinion of our situation with Akane, and how do you guys want to proceed? I think the relationship can still be salvaged. Hazou was for two years the leader of a squad of missing-nin. Yes, theoretically it was Mari, but Hazou was the guy with the plan. It was only natural for him to think of everybody on the team as resources. But the situation has changed, and she's no longer part of our team out on a long mission, right? So, I think we give it a week or so for her to cool off, and then go in with some flowers and chocolate, say we're sorry, explain the whole thing to her. If she wants, we could still be a couple, and do normal couple things like on dates, and training ninja skills together and what not, but Hazou stops thinking of her as a part of his team that he has control over and responsibilities towards. What do you guys think?
Honestly, if we want Hazou to actually be able to have an ability to relate to people outside of pure instrumentality, Akane is one of the few ways we can do it. She's not a team-mate anymore, and she is probably one of the few ninja that Hazou can be emotionally vulnerable/intimate with while not also having to factor in the inherient political repressions of having any relationship (romantic or otherwise) with.

When was the last time that Hazou could actually relax with someone? Because if burnout isn't incorporated into the simulationist nature of this quest I will eat my own foot.
 
When was the last time that Hazou could actually relax with someone? Because if burnout isn't incorporated into the simulationist nature of this quest I will eat my own foot.
This is more a relic of how much IRL time has passed since the Chunin exams started I think. Just a few weeks ago we were playing board games every few nights with friends in Leaf.
 
The winning plans are hyperlinked in the chapter titles, actually.

Well, doesn't that make me feel silly.

I think the general opinion is that its sort of unhealthy for the both of them. Hazou has a problem respecting other peoples agency and Akane has her own issues atm. I think the gameplan is to leave it alone for a bit (until Hana gives us some advice on that hopefully in the next chapter) and then just patch things up and be friends.

The character dynamic was totally fine when everyone was trying not to get murdered in the wild every day, but now that we're in Leaf it seems like the relationship has changed somewhat.

As far as it is now, yeah, it's unhealthy. But from what I understand of Hazou's character, he's not the kind of guy to give up at the first sign of trouble. He wouldn't be a sealmaster if that was the case. It would do him some good to change that about himself, and it would be good character growth. Maybe go talk to Jiraiya for advice, he would know a lot about women and relationships. Could be a bonding moment, or it could bring to light Hazou's pent-up rage at people mentioning that he is, in fact, his father. Either way, seems pretty interesting.
 
Well, doesn't that make me feel silly.
Eh, I only noticed it after following the quest on and off for a year or so, so.

By the way, quoting people like that doesn't ping them with a forum alert. You should click "Reply" or "Quote" (or you can highlight sections of text and click reply/quote) if you want to do that. Generally a good idea if you're responding to someones comments specifically (otherwise it will probably get lost in the stream of posts in thread). You can also do this with an @ put before someones name, like @Ipslon , for example.
 
IIRC, we have been told that if a storage seal is destroyed, objects will be forced to appear.
Huh. Can we weaponize this a bit further? We have ideas for releasing liquids (lake in a seal) and gases (blowing up a fully loaded Life Saving Purifier, plus Implosion seals already), but to my knowledge we haven't thought much about what might happen with solids. We should test what happens when a large solid object is unsealed in this manner in a space too small to contain it. If it pushes the surrounding solids out of the way, it could be used for demolitions. If it teleports to an unoccupied space, we might be able to communicate using it (or with a seal variant at least. Maybe something that counts air as an occupied space?).
 
We should test what happens when a large solid object is unsealed in this manner in a space too small to contain it.
I believe we asked Kagome this when we thought of "Put storage seals filled with kunai in Keiko's sleeves." and his general response was "Why would you do that!? I thought you liked Keiko! Alive!" or something. If a storage seal doesn't have enough space to unstore, usually (if you're lucky) it just doesn't work. In certain scenarios I think something horribly wrong might happen instead.
 
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Eh, I only noticed it after following the quest on and off for a year or so, so.

By the way, quoting people like that doesn't ping them with a forum alert. You should click "Reply" or "Quote" (or you can highlight sections of text and click reply/quote) if you want to do that. Generally a good idea if you're responding to someones comments specifically (otherwise it will probably get lost in the stream of posts in thread). You can also do this with an @ put before someones name, like @Ipslon , for example.
Yeah, I saw that and got a bit confused by the "Added to the multiquote thing.
Huh. Can we weaponize this a bit further? We have ideas for releasing liquids (lake in a seal) and gases (blowing up a fully loaded Life Saving Purifier, plus Implosion seals already), but to my knowledge we haven't thought much about what might happen with solids. We should test what happens when a large solid object is unsealed in this manner in a space too small to contain it. If it pushes the surrounding solids out of the way, it could be used for demolitions. If it teleports to an unoccupied space, we might be able to communicate using it (or with a seal variant at least. Maybe something that counts air as an occupied space?).
Has there been anything said about putting seals inside of storage seals? I feel like that's something Hazou would think of and Kagome would probably scream at him for. But I don't remember it being mentioned anywhere.
 
Has there been anything said about putting seals inside of storage seals? I feel like that's something Hazou would think of and Kagome would probably scream at him for. But I don't remember it being mentioned anywhere.
We explicitly can't do that. Storage seals are super finnicky with stuff like that.
 
I believe we asked Kagome this when we thought of "Put storage seals filled with kunai in Keiko's sleeves." and his general response was "Why would you do that!? I thought you liked Keiko! Alive!" or something. If a storage seal doesn't have enough space to unstore, usually it just doesn't work. In certain scenarios I think something horribly wrong might happen instead.
Sounds weaponizeable.
 
I don't think we're going to be allowed to nailbomb anyone in the arena. If only because the audience can't bet on us if they've got four inches of shattered kunai through their occipital lobe.
There are forcewall type screens to prevent the audience from being harmed. If you go back to check the Naruto vs Gaara description.

Edit: But thats besides the point.
 
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!!!!!!! LUPCHANZ!! GIVE US BACK ONEIROS, YOU STINKER !!!!!!

Wasn't us.

Alright. First of all, I want to greet everybody here. I got pointed to this quest from a different forum and so I've spent the past few days reading it. Obviously, I read through the story thread because I'm not spending weeks reading through 4000 pages of discussion. So I want to share a few thoughts I had about it, starting with things I did like:
  • It's pretty good, overall. It's been going for a while, and it has a very hefty length, and it doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon. You have some nice OC going, with good characterization, my favorites being Kagome and Akane. Especially Kagome. Every update with him is always a ton of fun.
  • Love what you've done with the setting so far. The setting is the best part about the original Naruto, when it was just about sneaky ninjas doing ninja magic. You know, up to about the Chunin exam arc.
  • Speaking of what made Naruto bad, you're actually good at controlling the powercreep. The quest started two and a half years ago, and there's a substantial lack of mechs punching giant demons in the face. It feels like the characters can still fail, and they often do, and there's often consequences for it.
There's also things I didn't like, such as the changes to some canon characters, like making Rock Lee a complete joke, but overall the positives outweigh the negatives. Also, before I forget! It shouldn't matter to someone reading the quest in real time, but to anybody joining in, there are some gaps between the end of a post and the begging of the next one. That's where the discussion, planning and voting are, but as far as I've seen, you don't mention it in your posts as to what plans won. For me it would have been great if I could see the plan that the players came up with, along with the post that the QM wrote.

I'd also like to chime in on the recent discussion. Again, I don't know what's the long-term goal of the hivemind, beyond what's been said in-game, so I'd love it if somebody could link me to that, or explain it in some detail. However, saying that in this quest it's impossible to achieve any kind of long-term goal is unfair. We went from wanted criminals on the run to the heir to a clan in control of the strongest military in the world. There is clearly some progression.

Also, what's the general opinion of our situation with Akane, and how do you guys want to proceed? I think the relationship can still be salvaged. Hazou was for two years the leader of a squad of missing-nin. Yes, theoretically it was Mari, but Hazou was the guy with the plan. It was only natural for him to think of everybody on the team as resources. But the situation has changed, and she's no longer part of our team out on a long mission, right? So, I think we give it a week or so for her to cool off, and then go in with some flowers and chocolate, say we're sorry, explain the whole thing to her. If she wants, we could still be a couple, and do normal couple things like on dates, and training ninja skills together and what not, but Hazou stops thinking of her as a part of his team that he has control over and responsibilities towards. What do you guys think?

Hey, great to have you on board!

The Akane situation is difficult. I think the general opinion is that the relationship was unhealthy for her because of its unbalanced power dynamic. Akane has self-esteem issues, and despite appearing mature for her age, she's still a teenage girl in the process of figuring our her own identity. Being involved with Hazou, whom she feels indebted to for saving her, and who she perceives as a kind of larger-than-life messiah figure, wasn't good for her in the sense that it tied all of her self-worth to him.

With that said, it's certainly possible for them to get back together eventually, but we should give it a lot more time than just a week or a month. Akane needs to build up a sense of her own self that doesn't involve Hazou, and ideally not other crutches like the YOUTH thing either. And Hazou needs to become more self-aware of how he thinks about people and how that impacts his relationships to them.
 
[break even on] having a positive impact on the world
Yes, but what resource are you expending on which you are not going to break even? "Break even" requires that you be using one resource to gain another.

For that matter, Hazō has demonstrably already had a significant impact on the world, albeit an indirect one. Because of you, Mist is no longer under the control of a psychotic, and the nice (nicest, anyway) village is probably going to end up the dominant power on the continent, thereby allowing some significant political improvements. Probably.

Alright. First of all, I want to greet everybody here.
Welcome! Nice to see new faces.

Has there been anything said about putting seals inside of storage seals? I feel like that's something Hazou would think of and Kagome would probably scream at him for. But I don't remember it being mentioned anywhere.
You should definitely do this. Nothing bad could come if it. Really. Honest. ;>

We explicitly can't do that. Storage seals are super finnicky with stuff like that.
As far as Hazō is aware, storage seals are capable of accepting other seals (i.e. they won't refuse to store them if you try) it's just an exceptionally bad idea.

There are forcewall type screens to prevent the audience from being harmed. If you go back to check the Naruto vs Gaara description.

Edit: But thats besides the point.
Canon absolutely does have that, yes.
 
As far as Hazō is aware, storage seals are capable of accepting other seals (i.e. they won't refuse to store them if you try) it's just an exceptionally bad idea.
Well, details. :p

Canon absolutely does have that, yes.
No, this is something I'm remembering from here. I can go search.

Here:


"Right… So is it true that the Fourth Hokage's son fought the Kazekage's son in the finals? What was that like?"

"Nobody really knows," Akimichi confessed.

"Huh?" Noburi said. "How can you not know? Wasn't it in that huge arena over there? That thing must seat hundreds of spectators."

"Well, within about two seconds, the entire place was a sandstorm. Visibility was down to zero. There was a bunch of explosions, and lots of shouting, like there was an army at war in there. Screaming, too. After maybe thirty seconds, there was an enormous blast of wind that wiped the air clear—nearly wrecking the audience's defensive screens as it did—and there was Gaara of the Desert, floating away from the arena on this big cloud of flying sand. Naruto chased him into the woodlands, and none of us are sure what happened after that, except that they eventually came back and declared a draw."

Defensive screens! Now these don't have to be seals or anything but they're clearly transparent or see through.
 
By the way, what do we know of the Uchiha Massacre? That is a thing that still happened, right? And it was done by Itachi?
Itachi is in your bingo book, though he is only listed as a traitor and his crimes are not listed. Presumably Konoha doesn't like advertising that one of their own decapitated one of their most famous clans. Supposedly he killed every battle-worthy ninja in his clan in a single night and then left. The rumours are divided as to why. Some say that his father killed Itachi's forbidden star crossed lover and he snapped, others that he wanted worthy opponents and considered only other Sharingan users to be his equal. The rumours do not seem particularly trustworthy.

The clan has still not recovered. You were shocked when you heard, but were comforted by the fact that such a thing could never happen in Mist. After all, who would be crazy enough to attack a clan?
 
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