2)I don't think we can waterproof on masse. They don't have the line of sight to be able to do this and it likely wastes a lot of chakra anyway.
En masse, no. Doesn't invalidate the safety measure, though.

If we were to attack a seal-master's fort, we'd use our ocean in a bottle a.k.a. storage seal with water. Even 1cm flooding ruins all seals on the ground. In case there'd be seals above that line, we'd use hiding in the mist.
I'm sure there's large-scale water jutsu that could do the same.

Waterproofing with clay is a viable counter to that.
 
If we don't have enough water in seals to set up a thin flood, when we have a Wakahisa on our team, then enemy teams without sealmasters surely won't either.

Maybe a targeted wetting attempt on visible seals, but not an area denial approach.
 
En masse, no. Doesn't invalidate the safety measure, though.

If we were to attack a seal-master's fort, we'd use our ocean in a bottle a.k.a. storage seal with water. Even 1cm flooding ruins all seals on the ground. In case there'd be seals above that line, we'd use hiding in the mist.
I'm sure there's large-scale water jutsu that could do the same.

Waterproofing with clay is a viable counter to that.
I don't think such an attack is probable: I don't think anyone present has the ability or chakra capacity or even the knowledge to cast a multiple zones ranged water jutsu.

At best, they punch a hole in some of the surrounding traps while leading up to a wall/abattis. We can focus here for bombardment then, and it gets rendered moot.

The enemy Wakahisa's are sans chakra BTW. They cannot refill without draining their respective teammates a fair bit. (Perhaps they can quickly barter for chakra from other Mist teams,I suppose )And they still have Triplecost for jutsu. I don't think many of the other people we have fought on Round One Blue have a water affinity, if theyre ninjutsu spec at all.
 
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If there ever is a quest similar to this one (simulationist rocket tag), QMs should try their hardest to kill the characters quickly in the beginning.
We kinda were supposed to die early. The QMs made this a deathworld and made our particular situation one where we'd most likely die really early. Instead, we surprised them by defying all odds and keeping our original character this far. That's interesting in and of itself, in my opinion.

Or, if a Yamanaka (Ino?) got a peek at our... secret chamber. :ogles:
In the ex-canon chapter, Ino mind-dived us and saw what she described as an 'Abberant personality manifold'. Such things are extremely rare but not unknown in the ninja world, apparently, but seem to be more of an intellectual curiosity than anything else. However, that chapter is ex-canon so the QMs are not beholden to anything within it, so if we ever get mind-dived by a Yamanaka for real, they may find the same thing or something completely different, depending on what the QMs decide.

Personally, I would prefer Hazou to not have an abberant personality manifold, as it leans on the fourth wall and I do not believe that in serious works like this the fourth wall should be toyed with much. The fact that Hazou 'does the thing' and creates plans full-formed in an instant as opposed to working it out rapidly over a few moments, or the psychedelic out of body experience Hazou experienced in that sealing failure, is about as far as I'm comfortable with leaning on the fourth wall, and I would advocate against further jabs at it lest the combined set of fourth wall incidents start breaking immersion in the story.
 
This could very well develop a literal Hivemind meta-plotline. If normal characters don't matter, how about the mastermind(s) behind them?
Yes. I spent some time thinking about our playing strategy as well, and I would highly enjoy doing exactly this, abandoning the pretence of a fair play in favour of duelling the Sage & Dummy1​, possibly by deliberately and purposefully burning through hosts.

We've settled on long-term single-host strategy with Hazou, but I suspect it's suboptimal on grand-scale. We have a massive advantage in our ability to continue imposing our values upon the world after our host's death, but this strategy doesn't utilize it at all.

But there are strategies that leverage it. We could use our hosts as one-time agents for quick, highly important, suicidal tasks, such as information-gathering, terror attacks, assassinations, or experimentation, employing our natural creativity and strategic positioning to complete them with a mere genin's resources.

It'd be fascinating: a pair of demigods against an interdimensional hivemind capable of possessing random genin all over the Elemental Nations! Asymmetric warfare! Complex ideological disputes! Intense conflicts with smart enemies! Creative, transhumanistic strategies! High-stakes high-power highly-abstract plot! Physics phun (village-scale or less) largely unrestrained by fear of collateral damage!

As good a time to ask as any. @eaglejarl, @Velorien, @OliWhail, if Hazou dies and the Sage1​ exists and is hostile, can we do that?


1. Or the Watchers, or Kaguya, or the Mori Voice, or ChakrAI, or a different most powerful entity from our light-cone.
 
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We've settled on long-term single-host strategy with Hazou, but I suspect it's suboptimal on grand-scale. We have a massive advantage in our ability to continue imposing our values upon the world after our host's death, but this strategy doesn't utilize it at all.

*puts aside love for characters for a second*
Cough cough. Whats this we nonsense?

Its highly probable that Hazou eventually dies. Its a local optima that we continue along maximizing his potential until then. He's just too aligned with our goals and too knowledgeable about certain things and well connected(Sealing, Leaf Secrets, knows Jiraiya, etc.) to risk without great reward.

Until we manage some sort of Slythetin's Basilisk solution that is able to knowledge dump future characters in some way. (Sure sure, theres the proposed "Listen to the Hivemind Bloodline", but this is likely a one time fix. )Once we create such a thing, it opens up the board a little bit IMO.
 
I have made the aforementioned changes. Also edited phrasing of some stuff to reduce word count.


Word Count: 529
[X] (defenses) Layers of Rocket Tag
General:
  • Tactical decisions (Target priority,squad makeup, etc.) ultimately left to IC judgement.
    • This plan is a framework to work around.
  • Keiko runs everything through Frozen Skein.
  • Hazou makes seals as needed.

Politics:
  • Nara ensures Hyuga doesn't join in attack
    • Updates us during rest day on new info if necessary/possible.
  • Don't burn bridges with the speech, if possible.
    • Effective yet mildly tactful, please.
  • Convince teammates to donate chakra
Physical:
  • Internal Defenses:
    • FSB'd MEW base (preventing tunnelers) and panels reinforcing key spots.
  • External defenses:
    • 4 zones cleared in each direction with explosives
      • First zone -- primary ranged attack station -- create LOS blocking cover (Counter:Lightning Pillar aim) with stacked logs/branches.
      • Second - fourth zones -- field of traps with a safe path snaking around.
      • Separate zones with border of walls/abattisses from downed foliage.
    • Conventional traps as prepared by Paneru.
    • Nonlethal AOE seals and fake seals throughout field.
    • Safe path is bordered by trap field.
      • Goes through one gap in each layer's border.
      • Has an outward facing LBF-ed Air Dome at each layer's entrance (covers retreat, obstacle to enemies).
      • Snakes around to add a few zones of length.
    • Set up dirt ramps facing outwards in layer 2 for ranged "Sniper Nests".
      • Protected by trap field.
      • Ranged ninja know how to move through traps here..
    • Prepare a LBF-ed Air Domes in Sniper Nests.
      • Purpose: Emergency cover.
      • Possibly use force walls as well-- but take down before retreating.
    • Pangolins dig underground ring around facility to catch tunnelers. Trap it.
    • Prepare an emergency exit through traps.
      • Perhaps a path of fake traps(blend in with real traps).
    • Consider: Goo Bomb Pitfall trapped area at key choke point.
      • Tile an area with the above trap design.
      • Attach LBFs and Goo Bombs underneath as ammo.
      • Tie individual trip cords to one large trip cord(simultaneous activation).
      • Put a thin layer of dirt for camouflage.
      • Detonate early if someone has contextual reason to believe it is dangerous in a given scenario.
      • Suggest:Test first in 7th path (rest day) if possible. If not, quick test on field, time permitting.
      • Suggest: May synergize very well with the first retreat Air Dome (mentioned above). Use right after the dome goes off?
  • Strategy
    • Above ground squad (Pandamonium, Pandojuru, ninja)
      • Pepper enemies with ranged attacks and brief bouts of CQC (Pangolins help with buffs and ranged)
        • CQC is ideally to happen at the entrance to each layer.
      • Retreat layer by layer back to the facility.
        • Ranged is at layer 2, then retreats to layer 1 when appropriate.
        • They cover the CQC retreats; do their own when appropriate.
    • Underground squad (Panashe, Pankurashun, Noburi(?), ninja)
      • Counter tunneling attack, capture and drain.
      • Ambush above ground attackers from below afterwards (back lines).
        • Priority targets: Wakahisa, Hazama, etc.
    • Do not get pinned down.
  • Contingencies:
    • Prioritize closer layers of traps
    • If pinned down (at facility or otherwise):"non-lethally Kagome out".
      • If overrun at facility: try to escape underground. Failing that: "non-lethally Kagome out".
      • Intent: Abandon facility, come around the back of the assault force, adopt standard Uplift Siege tactics where appropriate (as in Round 1).
    • If someone tries to circumvent defenses: Quickly counter with appropriate ranged attacks
    • Goo bomb trap the lockbox.
 
Until we manage some sort of Slythetin's Basilisk solution that is able to knowledge dump future characters in some way. (Sure sure, theres the proposed "Listen to the Hivemind Bloodline", but this is likely a one time fix. )Once we create such a thing, it opens up the board a little bit IMO.
Just have current host make a dead drop with all information somewhere, then incidentally lead our next host to it. They don't need to know what they're doing.

And yes, I agree that Hazou is widely successful host. But do you honestly think that we wouldn't have made more progress towards changing the Elemental Nations' global political situation with twenty hosts that we've used up for well-calculated strategic interventions?

The story I'm proposing is a very different one, to be sure. As you've pointed out, it's a more lonely/inhuman one, with less focus on allied characters, but more focus on worldbuilding and our enemies. I still think it'd be very interesting.
 
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*smacks head*

@MMKII: I just thought of a far simpler counter: trenches. We have pangolins that are masters at digging, so a few canals to divert water away from our trap fields would be trivial to them.
 
*smacks head*

@MMKII: I just thought of a far simpler counter: trenches. We have pangolins that are masters at digging, so a few canals to divert water away from our trap fields would be trivial to them.
"Shallow Anti-flood trenches." seems okay?


Just have current host make a dead drop with all information somewhere, then incidentally lead our next host to it. They don't need to know what they're doing.
Mehhhhhhhh not sufficient enough for me.
 
Plan Part: Distraction
Put an implosion seal on a 4 s timer. Have Pandamonium launch it at >25 m/s horizontally, >20 m/s vertically. So about 33 m/s (75 mph, not a particularly good baseball throw, even) just around 40 or so deg from horizon. It detonates about 100 m away.

UN - SaferGuard - Kingery Bulmash Blast Parameter Calculator
And my previous calculations for implosion seals tell me that a 175 kg charge of TNT (roughly equivalent, accepting the telephone snapping analogy, to the tree clearing of olde) produces 14 kPa reflected overpressure (about 2 psi) at 100 m.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docket/archive/pdfs/NIOSH-125/125-ExplosionsandRefugeChambers.pdf
2 psi might fling some debris around and cause injuries, but it won't kill any ninja (unless there are any standing closer to the blast, but why split hairs?)

More importantly, the explosion will be loud and impressive. Everybody's hackles rise, and we shout down at them to sit down and shut up.

Then we pull a cord. Boom. Pratfall trap. Didn't see that coming, did'ya, stinkers!
 
Plan Part: Distraction
Put an implosion seal on a 4 s timer. Have Pandamonium launch it at >25 m/s horizontally, >20 m/s vertically. So about 33 m/s (75 mph, not a particularly good baseball throw, even) just around 40 or so deg from horizon. It detonates about 100 m away.

UN - SaferGuard - Kingery Bulmash Blast Parameter Calculator
And my previous calculations for implosion seals tell me that a 175 kg charge of TNT (roughly equivalent, accepting the telephone snapping analogy, to the tree clearing of olde) produces 14 kPa reflected overpressure (about 2 psi) at 100 m.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docket/archive/pdfs/NIOSH-125/125-ExplosionsandRefugeChambers.pdf
2 psi might fling some debris around and cause injuries, but it won't kill any ninja (unless there are any standing closer to the blast, but why split hairs?)

More importantly, the explosion will be loud and impressive. Everybody's hackles rise, and we shout down at them to sit down and shut up.

Then we pull a cord. Boom. Pratfall trap. Didn't see that coming, did'ya, stinkers!
Why don't we just open with an Implosion Seal or Youthenizer tossed up high into the air above the battlefield?
 
@MMKII
Air blast is calculated differently than given in the link (note I made the situation in my prior post so that it detonated fairly close to the ground). I think that the lack of ground reflected pressure makes the wave weaker, so less height is needed, but would actually need to math it out to be sure.

Also, very slightly joking.
 
@MMKII
Air blast is calculated differently than given in the link (note I made the situation in my prior post so that it detonated fairly close to the ground). I think that the lack of ground reflected pressure makes the wave weaker, so less height is needed, but would actually need to math it out to be sure.

Also, very slightly joking.
Counterpoint:
Launching a Youthenizer in the air as a distraction at some critical point could be extremely effective. :D
 
@MMKII
Air blast is calculated differently than given in the link (note I made the situation in my prior post so that it detonated fairly close to the ground). I think that the lack of ground reflected pressure makes the wave weaker, so less height is needed, but would actually need to math it out to be sure.

Also, very slightly joking.
What's the joke? Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
 
I'm all down for a body-hopping story if Hazō dies, on one condition:

Right before Hazō dies, he has to say: "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!"
 
On another note, we really need more points in Calligraphy.

I'm pretty sure it's gonna cause sealing failures if we do research with it now.
 
Precomit on Edits:

I wont be editting major portions of the plan after ~2am Sunday EST.

I'll wake up for minor changes or typos before the deadline.

A large supermajority may overrule me on major changes if something sufficiently bad or sufficiently good needs doing, I guess.

Otherwise, I will hold myself to the above on pain of severe karmic backlash.
 
We get some sort of Aspect Bonus for Frozen Skein-ing plans now in certain scenarios?

+ 2x Aspect Bonus of FS if facing Very Bad Odds

+1x Aspect Bonus of FS for Bad Odds.

Think this counts as Very Bad?
 
I'm fairly certain the QMs won't hold us to typos, right?

Omake: Plan Typo

"You want... what." Keiko's voice was flatter than an ANBU's bedsheet.

Hazō blinked. He didn't think he misspoke. "I need-"

"I understood your words. I was merely expressing surprise and disbelief at them. I want no part in this." She flipped through a few seals in her pouch and handed Hazō a storage seal from near the back. "You realize you're never going to live this down, right?"

Hazō looked at her with confusion for a few moments, while Keiko regaled him with a blank stare. After a few moments he just shrugged and left to their room to begin preparations. "Thanks Keiko!" He called out cheerily.

Keiko facepalmed.
 
We get some sort of Aspect Bonus for Frozen Skein-ing plans now in certain scenarios?

+ 2x Aspect Bonus of FS if facing Very Bad Odds

+1x Aspect Bonus of FS for Bad Odds.

Think this counts as Very Bad?

Honestly not at all the situation is very good for us thanks to our prep and collusion with ISC
 
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