Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
MMKII said:
2) Using this to make grenades?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The question this prompts is, how does this make a better grenade than just using our seals directly? It'd be a supplemental action to activate either way. And civilians are unlikely to have the combat stats to really take advantage of it, not to mention the sealmaster bottleneck to actually supply the things.
 
Incidentally, we should ask if Jiraiya has any delayed-Earth Dome seals for Keiko to use.
 
Cariyaga said:
Incidentally, we should ask if Jiraiya has any delayed-Earth Dome seals for Keiko to use.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Curiosity: How delayed are we looking at? Earth Domes have a 0.5s delay assuming they're as fast as Air Domes.
eaglejarl said:
I've been practicing with the Air Domes. Basics are working, but I still need to get rid of the chakra bleed when the dome forms—a lot less useful if they see what you're doing. Also, it would be better if they formed faster. Not as useful in a fight if they take half a second. Even better would be if I had a way to track their location instead of just remembering where they are. Those seals that Hazō keeps mumbling about (the casino ones) might be useful. (NB: Who was the sealmaster that produced those things? Slick work. Could it be Kaneto? The report said that he melted in a lab accident, but then it changed to death by poisoning and then to 'just disappeared'...or was it poisoning, then disappeared, then melted? So hard to remember! I think we're still with 'disappeared'.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Erolki said:
The question this prompts is, how does this make a better grenade than just using our seals directly? It'd be a supplemental action to activate either way. And civilians are unlikely to have the combat stats to really take advantage of it, not to mention the sealmaster bottleneck to actually supply the things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I wasn't really trying to do civilian sealtech.
I'm trying to make all sorts of grenades and sealtech that we can use in the tournament. Or in the future.

Anyway I have a better design.

We just LBF a big pile of shaped charges together and glue them in place in a thin wooden box type thing.

Attach ninja wire tripcord underneath the LBF tags before you glue.

Hazou can now activate/fire a pile of seals in one round's worth of actions. (He wears the above as some sort of unwieldy ass vest or something).

(This is a once per battle trick though.)

We can also adapt the following for Macerator use if we put hinges on the wooden box. He rips it off and pulls the tripcord to fire a pile of goodies at the enemy.

Noburi can also use this with Misterators or something too maybe (underside of some false bottom of his barrel maybe).

If we can make Continuous Dispersion Macerators (like how Usamatu unseals things, but in a small volume and more frequently) then we can bootsrap the above to essentially allow us to make a whole bunch of aerosol type grenade weapons (we can even chain a bunch together ).


Advantage: It gets around the action economy with things we already have on hand.
Disadvantage: Unwieldy to carry around in bulk, needs preparation beforehand, single shot.
 
Last edited:
faflec said:
Curiosity: How delayed are we looking at? Earth Domes have a 0.5s delay assuming they're as fast as Air Domes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Delayed enough for Keiko to throw two shuriken/kunai precisely enough to activate surrounding someone.
e:

MMKII said:
I wasn't really trying to do civilian sealtech.
I'm trying to make all sorts of grenades and sealtech that we can use in the tournament. Or in the future.

Anyway I have a better design.

We just LBF a big pile of shaped charges together and glue them in place in a thin wooden box type thing.

Attach ninja wire tripcord underneath the LBF tags before you glue.

Hazou can now activate/fire a pile of seals in one round's worth of actions. (He wears the above as some sort of unwieldy ass vest or something).

(This is a once per battle trick though.)

We can also adapt the following for Macerator use if we put hinges on the wooden box. He rips it off and pulls the tripcord to fire a pile of goodies at the enemy.

Noburi can also use this with Misterators or something too maybe (underside of some false bottom of his barrel maybe).

If we can make Continuous Dispersion Macerators (like how Usamatu unseals things, but in a small volume and more frequently) then we can bootsrap the above to essentially allow us to make a whole bunch of aerosol type grenade weapons (we can even chain a bunch together ).


Advantage: It gets around the action economy with things we already have on hand.
Disadvantage: Unwieldy to carry around in bulk, needs preparation beforehand.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We could always just ask Kagome to put together a few clusterbombs for us.
 
Last edited:
Cariyaga said:
Delayed enough for Keiko to throw two shuriken/kunai precisely enough to activate surrounding someone.
e:


We could always just ask Kagome to put together a few clusterbombs for us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I could've sworn there was another post here somewhere.... :whistle:

I don't really know how a clusterbomb would work. I know Kagome has grapeseed bombs, but those are a bit different.

I also think theres a large difference here as far as action economy goes. You have to prep and throw a clusterbomb (Hazou is also trash at ranged).

But if you jerry rig a vest outta this thing? You pull one tripcord sticking out from under your shirt a bit with 1 Supplemental Action and the enemy gets a face full of shaped charges. Very efficient.
 
eaglejarl said:
Note that an LBF can only activate 0-2 seals.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Using multiple LBF's shouldn't be problematic to fit into a thin rectangular prism, I don't think? It'd just be annoying as far as preptime goes (couple hours) for a one shot device.

Obviously the amount you can do with this is limited by materials and unwieldyness. (I think like, a slightly smaller than chest sized wooden box-vest contraption would at best hold half a dozen LBF elements at Hazou's size for example. Or you could make it hexagonal.)

Maybe you could fit the same or more amount of LBF-ed Misterator in some sort of porous false bottom of Noburi's barrel.

It also depends on how you envision LBF tag's "aligning" I guess. My mental model isn't so clear here.

Do the planes of the two LBF elements have to be parallel to each other (ink facing each other) or do you have to have them on the same plane "pointed" at each other (lets say the bottom part of the seal needs to point to the bottom part of the other seal, but they're level with each other and occupy the same plane in 3 dimensional space).

How do you usually envision these? Has there been significant thought on this?
 
Last edited:
MMKII said:
Using multiple LBF's shouldn't be problematic to fit into a thin rectangular prism, I don't think? It'd just be annoying as far as preptime goes (couple hours) for a one shot device.

Obviously the amount you can do with this is limited by materials and unwieldyness. (I think like, a slightly smaller than chest sized wooden box-vest contraption would at best hold half a dozen LBF elements at Hazou's size for example. Or you could make it hexagonal.)

Maybe you could fit the same or more amount of LBF-ed Misterator in some sort of porous false bottom of Noburi's barrel.

It also depends on how you envision LBF tag's "aligning" I guess. My mental model isn't so clear here.

Does the planes of the two LBF elements have to be parallel to each other (ink facing each other) or do you have to have them on the same plane "pointed" at each other (lets say the bottom part of the seal needs to point to the bottom part of the other seal, but they're level with each other and occupy the same plane in 3 dimensional space).

How do you usually envision these? Has there been significant thought on this?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Easy way to activate them all: String going past them, attached to a stick a bit of wood stuck there, yanked free and pulled through all the LBFs.
 
Cariyaga said:
Easy way to activate them all: String going past them, attached to a stick a bit of wood stuck there, yanked free and pulled through all the LBFs.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think you'd need to bother with a stick if you just glue the wire to the border of the box. Glued around the side and in the corners a bit, lets say.

Doesn't need to be glued, you can seal it with wax. This creates a square-ish frame of ninja wire in your thin box thing.

As you pull, the wire should detach from the sides/corners and pass through the LBF elements, activating all of them.

You can easily create a vest that has 1 or 2 LBF's worth of space. So 4 seals of ammunition. This seems decently useful....


I imagine you can do something similar with Misterators. Put in some sort of wooden frame, attach rice paper with wax+ninja wire to the frame to make a sealed container.

Pull ninja wire, wax and rice paper come off, letting your misterators have room to unload. Hmm....



I'll think about this more. If I think it's worthwhile and possible with Feudal Japan -ish materials then I'll throw some diagrams together.
 
Last edited:
MMKII said:
I don't think you'd need to bother with a stick if you just glue the wire to the border of the box. Glued around the side and in the corners a bit, lets say.

Doesn't need to be glued, you can seal it with wax. This creates a square-ish frame of ninja wire in your thin box thing.

As you pull, the wire should detach from the sides/corners and pass through the LBF elements, activating all of them.

You can easily create a vest that has 1 or 2 LBF's worth of space. So 4 seals of ammunition. This seems decently useful....


I imagine you can do something similar with Misterators. Put in some sort of wooden frame, attach rice paper with wax+ninja wire to the frame to make a sealed container.

Pull ninja wire, wax and rice paper come off, letting your misterators have room to unload. Hmm....



I'll think about this more. If I think it's worthwhile and possible with Feudal Japan -ish materials then I'll throw some diagrams together.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
By the way, good idea on this count. Having a way to activate a bunch of seals at once in one action is a huge action economy advantage. Even something as simple as macerator+banshee+Pepper Spray, all fired at once, point blank, would be an incredible combo.

On that note! @eaglejarl I'm not sure that the idea of LBF having to face each other would work...

@faflec Have we ever used LBF to trigger air domes in the past? Because if so, they'd have to be flat on the ground.
 
Adept_Woodwright said:
I had a whole run of posts on this, but you're right that I forgot some of the specifics in the write up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah, I don't follow the thread as close as I used to. Only saw your recent one because of the threadmark.
Sound Model in Python
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How very motivated... I'd have just stuck the equation in WolframAlpha ;). Appreciated though!
Engineering Acoustics/Outdoor Sound Propagation - Wikibooks, open books for an open world
dBn = dB0 + 3*groundReflect + 20*np.log10(R0 / Rn) + .7*(R0 - Rn) # 20000 Hz
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Very nice source, very detailed. Did you see that the sound absorption graph was in dB/100 m atm? I think your attenuation is two orders of magnitude too high, which is probably where my discrepancy was coming from. I'm also not clear where +3 dB for surface reflections comes from; that seems too high too me given the geometry and pitch we're talking about (1m sphere @ 20 kHz), but honestly I'm just guessing.
Local zones are the first 5 m. For every additional 10 m or so, an additional radial zone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thanks, this is the kind of thing I should have, but hadn't the sanity to, look up.
175 dB for death threshold (5 m in this case) 160 dB for big pain (15 m) 150 dB for small pain (25 m) 80 dB for Warn (105 m)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
175 dB seems too low to be physically wounding, except to the ears, no?
As to the dodge thing - exactly the same reason why folks get to dodge the goo bomb. Would it seem better to you that, if tied to a weapon's roll, the weapon's dodge counts toward dodging the sound seal? Only, I'd figure that most people wouldn't dodge behind an obstacle for most weapons attacks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That would seem better to me mechanically, yes. And they should, against a sealsmaster.
Edit the Second: As a force emitting seal (like many demonstrated attack seals) I felt it appropriate that Wind Gust seal would blow up. As a training seal from the Nara list, I also felt it appropriate that it be a minor thing. Maybe I can write like 1-stress or something.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was just meming about the fact the hivemind abuses everything, not that I think the mechanics were wrong.
​
 
Last edited:
Veedrac said:
Ah, I don't follow the thread as close as I used to. Only saw your recent one because of the threadmark.

How very motivated... I'd have just stuck the equation in WolframAlpha ;). Appreciated though!

Very nice source, very detailed. Did you see that the sound absorption graph was in dB/100 m atm? I think your attenuation is two orders of magnitude too high, which is probably where my discrepancy was coming from. I'm also not clear where +3 dB for surface reflections comes from; that seems too high too me given the geometry and pitch we're talking about (1m sphere @ 20 kHz), but honestly I'm just guessing.

Thanks, this is the kind of thing I should have, but hadn't the sanity to, look up.

175 dB seems too low to be physically wounding, except to the ears, no?

That would seem better to me mechanically, yes. And they should, against a sealsmaster.

I was just meming about the fact the hivemind abuses everything, not that I think the mechanics were wrong.
​
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The 5/+10 m thing is a gues just to fit a world against the mechanics, it's not published, so I could easily be wrong. Seemed as good a guess as any?

Yeah, the sound absorption graph is in dB/100 m. The 20 kHz cluster is between ~8 and 80, but only the super dry air is less than like 40 (looks like I might have erred a little high, maybe read off of 30 kHz by mistake).
My 0.7 was for 70/100.

The 3dB is for essentially doubling magnitude via ground reflection. (3 dB for that/ -6dB for doubling distance). Some of it will inevitably be lost to absorption, so I could reduce this to like 2 dB and be happy.

I don't have the time before work to track down my old posts on the matter, but I'm pretty sure that was the threshold for at least some deaths (part of why the original QM version was set at 175 dB). I'm fairly confident 175 dB incident sound waves can burn a person, cooking the surface layer of skin, and that it can rupture alveola, but I can't remember the source off hand.
 
Last edited:
Kiba said:
Now that I think about it, Naruto is no longer a shonen protagonist.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Correct, he's much scarier

MMKII said:
That'd be a bit of a problem as far as Ren is concerned I'd imagine.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You could say that....

Oneiros said:
I know you didn't mean anything by it but I would prefer if this community didn't perpetuate tropes that literally increase my chances of getting murdered
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
All in favor of launching transphobes into the sun o/
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail


Just wondering whether plans have changed or not:

Is the Master Score List still in the pipeline, or have y'all decided not to do this?

Inb4 "Yes."

Thanks!
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top