I've been thinking a bit about the plausibility of the summon scroll Naruto rescue plan, and I think it's not looking too bad. At least, I think its viability wouldn't undermine any of the worldbuilding the playerbase is privy to, at least, so it would come down to hidden summon mechanics or just QM fiat. Not too bad for such a wild idea.

Insofar as the mechanics of the trick go, it's kind of a wash. We don't know what the process of signing a scroll with one's blood actually does, or what the hidden requirements are. Keiko did remark once that the creation of summon scrolls requires blood, so it's a safe guess that it's required for signing as well. But, is it sufficient? We have no clue. It might also require a living and conscious signee with an intent to enter an agreement with the summon clan. We don't know, and have no way to find out. However, it is very unlikely that someone actually ever tested this, and while the summon clans themselves might know, they might not be inclined to share that kind of information with humans.

A more important question is whether the trick being possible has any serious implications for the world that would conflict with what we know. Looking at it in isolation, it seems insanely gamebreaking, providing the ability to abduct any ninja given their blood sample, at arbitrary range, without any way of defending against it. Moreover, the method leaves no evidence behind, and no way to trace the user. Would the Akatsuki not be assassinating Kage left and right using this method, were it available? Well, not exactly.

For one, the material requirements are very significant. The most prohibitive one is a summon clan whom the user can trust enough that they will choose to obey him over someone who's technically their new summoner. Furthermore, it is very likely that the clans attach great significance to the summoner relationship, and would be very reluctant to use it for this kind of purpose. This also explains why Itachi isn't using his dominion over the crows this way, as they'd just ditch him in favor of the target. Obtaining a strong ninja's blood is also not trivial, as I doubt anyone keeps it in cold storage for medical reasons at this tech level, and otherwise the only means of obtaining it would be through combat or by incapacitating them in the first place.

Secondly, it's unlikely that the idea would occur to anyone in EN history, and if it did, that they'd actually try it. Summon scrolls are incredibly rare, literally priceless, and represent a large chunk of a holder's power. Even putting aside the trust necessary between a summoner and his contracted clan, effectively giving up a scroll for the method to work would be seen as a prohibitive cost by any ninja. This would also make them less likely to even consider such a thing. I fully expect Jiraiya's initial reaction to be "Give up the toads? No way!".

To summarize, if the method doesn't conflict with some established but unknown information about summon scrolls, it's ultimately up to QM fiat whether it works. Narratively, in my opinion at least, if it comes with a cost of Jiraiya permanently ceding the Toad contract to Naruto, and needing to secure the Akatsuki base in order to actually retrieve the latter on the Human Path, then it won't be that much of a cheat, either.
 
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J likes new poisons. Mist probably knows a lot about exotic marine poisons. We should pick up some cone snails and chakra-pufferfish and the like before leaving. Even the rejects might be appreciated by the research hospital.
I notice that you didn't mention the possibility of chakra cone snails, because that would be too terrifying to even imagine.
 
Come to think of it, nabbing some really good paralytics or going to grab some chakra dragonfly dust would be reallllly good for the tournament
 
Could always negotiate to have Naruto('s blood) sign the pangolin contract instead. He's an up and coming S-rank ninja with basically infinite chakra. A real step up from Keiko for the pangolins. And it doesn't even lose them the Sky Tower seals deal, since as Jiraiya's godson he can be depended on to carry on being a faithful conduit for the clan.
 
Could always negotiate to have Naruto('s blood) sign the pangolin contract instead. He's an up and coming S-rank ninja with basically infinite chakra. A real step up from Keiko for the pangolins. And it doesn't even lose them the Sky Tower seals deal, since as Jiraiya's godson he can be depended on to carry on being a faithful conduit for the clan.
If Jiraiya can't convince the toads to do this with their long relationship and all that goodwill, I don't think the Pangolins would agree.

To say nothing of Keiko.

And everyone in thread.
 
By the time we track these down it may be too late.
We know the Condor is Mist-aligned, meaning that at the end of the day they probably answer to Ren. Trading a Summoning Scroll that's functionally useless (since its big fighters are either dead or in hiding in their own realm) for what would appear to be massive favors is a good deal from Ren's perspective.
 
If Jiraiya can't convince the toads to do this with their long relationship and all that goodwill, I don't think the Pangolins would agree.

To say nothing of Keiko.

And everyone in thread.

No, no, in preference to the toad contract. As in the pangolins should be the preferred option, with depowering Jiraiya by taking the toads away as a sad second choice. Surely this will logically occur to all the characters if the basic concept is practical? Why, I expect with her self-loathing Keiko will assess her relative value in holding her contract compared to Jiraiya's and suggest it herself! GMs, please take note- this would be a good way to get the summoning contract out of Keiko's hands in a way that every character in-universe would agree is logical.


(Why would the thread not agree?)
 
No, no, in preference to the toad contract. As in the pangolins should be the preferred option, with depowering Jiraiya by taking the toads away as a sad second choice. Surely this will logically occur to all the characters if the basic concept is practical? Why, I expect with her self-loathing Keiko will assess her relative value in holding her contract compared to Jiraiya's and suggest it herself! GMs, please take note- this would be a good way to get the summoning contract out of Keiko's hands in a way that every character in-universe would agree is logical.
I think you're just presuming everyone involved will be entirely okay with sacrificing whatever needs to be sacrificed here (summoning scroll, relationships with Pangolins, the power and versatility of being a summoner, all of the wealth keeping our clan afloat right now, etc.) That everyone is just going to spend whatever resources they perceive necessary to make this work.

I also don't see any reasons the Pangolins would consent to this. How does saving Naruto directly benefit them again? It benefits their summoner (sorta) and the Toad's summoner. It doesn't directly benefit them or even their allies.

Jiraiya MIGHT be able to convince the Toads. He has N years or so of good will built up, and even then I'm skeptical they'll just fork over an S rank summoner.

(Why would the thread not agree?)
Because it is a massive throw-shit-at-the-wall-and-hope-it-sticks gamble? At possibly the cost of a contract if it doesn't work.

And THATS just the people who are on board with the Toads doing this in the first place.

There is also the fact that the Pangolins are a massive avenue of potential resources that only the hivemind is currently planning to exploit. See: Great Library, getting intel on background info, other summons and potential contracts, etc.


This is all assuming theres no stipulation like

"You cannot sign a summoning scroll while the previous summoner is still alive."

or

"Jinchuuriki cannot travel to the 7th path."

That we may or may not know of.
 
(Why would the thread not agree?)
Because the thread likes being the brother of a Bad-A summoner. Because the thread also likes having access to giant spikey murder-machines at a moments notice. Possibly also because we like the economic advantages we get from it as well, since we wouldn't be able to negotiate any new deals with the pangolins until Naruto woke up and is rescued. Also, the logistics for the current deal get more complicated, since we would have to send the seals through the toads as an intermediary.
 
I think you're just presuming everyone involved will be entirely okay with sacrificing whatever needs to be sacrificed here (summoning scroll, relationships with Pangolins, the power and versatility of being a summoner, all of the wealth keeping our clan afloat right now, etc.) That everyone is just going to spend whatever resources they perceive necessary to make this work.

I also don't see any reasons the Pangolins would consent to this. How does saving Naruto directly benefit them again? It benefits their summoner (sorta) and the Toad's summoner. It doesn't directly benefit them or even their allies.

Well it would benefit them by getting Naruto as a summoner. As I said, he's a definite step-up from Keiko.

Although now that I think about it, if penciling in Naruto's name works then why can't he just hand the contract back to Keiko for her to sign after he's rescued? In which case nothing is being lost.

Jiraiya MIGHT be able to convince the Toads. He has N years or so of good will built up, and even then I'm skeptical they'll just fork over an S rank summoner.

Naruto is an S-rank summoner! Which would admittedly be a better trade for the pangolins than the toads.

Because it is a massive throw-shit-at-the-wall-and-hope-it-sticks gamble? At possibly the cost of a contract if it doesn't work.

And THATS just the people who are on board with the Toads doing this in the first place.

There is also the fact that the Pangolins are a massive avenue of potential resources that only the hivemind is currently planning to exploit. See: Great Library, getting intel on background info, other summons and potential contracts, etc.

I don't think "the hivemind" (I will never not feel dumb using that name for the quest players in this thread) really understand what an incredible resources Naruto would be. And he'd basically be part of our clan, you know. I think the only reason that Jiraiya didn't formally adopt him was out of respect for his father's name (and not being in town often enough to be a proper parent). A S-ranked virtual brother who can spawn a thousand shadow clones at will? I can't imagine what the players could do with that kind of power if he was well-disposed to Hazou and willing to experiment, but I'm sure it would be some incredibly things.

Having a Naruto on board would be worth a lot, and I don't see any reason why Hazou couldn't make friends with him and get to exploit all those things that the players want.

This is all assuming theres no stipulation like

"You cannot sign a summoning scroll while the previous summoner is still alive."

or

"Jinchuuriki cannot travel to the 7th path."

That we may or may not know of.

Well yes, assuming all of that, but you wrote the idea in your plan so we're starting from the assumption it's workable for purposes of discussion.

And again, given Keiko's personality and issues, I think there's a fair chance she comes up with this reasoning and volunteers herself. After all, she 'knows' that she doesn't really deserve to be the Pangolin Summoner. Just got to not have the players try and talk her out of it.
 
Yeah, the Pangolins haven't had a summoner for ~400 years, and have been noted many times to be particularly insular and difficult as far as summon clans go. And we're supposed to ask them to give up their new summoner, with whom they're getting along reasonably well, and deals with whom have increased their geopolitical power by a huge margin, in favor of a traumatized Jinchuuriki in a coma. Keiko is going to need a hell of a concept chart for that conversation with Pantsaa.
 
Well it would benefit them by getting Naruto as a summoner. As I said, he's a definite step-up from Keiko.

Although now that I think about it, if penciling in Naruto's name works then why can't he just hand the contract back to Keiko for her to sign after he's rescued? In which case nothing is being lost.



Naruto is an S-rank summoner! Which would admittedly be a better trade for the pangolins than the toads.

You're just sort of assuming that if we take Naruto's metaphorical character sheet and Keiko's and put them in front of Pantsaa he will nod and point to Naruto's and say

"His numbers are clearly better. I'll take this one, please."

???


This is not how I envision this going down.

I don't think "the hivemind" (I will never not feel dumb using that name for the quest players in this thread) really understand what an incredible resources Naruto would be. And he'd basically be part of our clan, you know. I think the only reason that Jiraiya didn't formally adopt him was out of respect for his father's name (and not being in town often enough to be a proper parent). A S-ranked virtual brother who can spawn a thousand shadow clones at will? I can't imagine what the players could do with that kind of power if he was well-disposed to Hazou and willing to experiment, but I'm sure it would be some incredibly things.

Having a Naruto on board would be worth a lot, and I don't see any reason why Hazou couldn't make friends with him and get to exploit all those things that the players want.

This is all potentially true. Naruto is less likely to agree to doing whatever inane shit we come up with though. Keiko would likely tell us to stop anything if its stupid or be right along for the ride.

I don't see this is beneficial as you seem to think it is.

Well yes, assuming all of that, but you wrote the idea in your plan so we're starting from the assumption it's workable for purposes of discussion.
Thats a bit fallacious. Just because its in the plan I voted in doesn't mean I personally like or think the idea is viable. It literally says "This is a long shot" in the plan section's first bullet, as well.

Since I believe this to be a complete shot in the dark, of course I am going to engage as if that is the case unless shown otherwise. This includes cost-benefit analysis.

And again, given Keiko's personality and issues, I think there's a fair chance she comes up with this reasoning and volunteers herself. After all, she 'knows' that she doesn't really deserve to be the Pangolin Summoner. Just got to not have the players try and talk her out of it.
Thats assuming a bit on Keiko's characterization:
1) I don't think Hazou would ever suggest or go along with that in character, regardless of what we would say
2) I don't think Keiko is really in the habit of thinking like this as much as she once was.


This is all tangential to the "We like having murderbeasts at our beck and call." and other complications of doing the summoners switcharoo with the pangolins (assuming everything works exactly like that, even).
 
Well the GMs will simulate character motivations and thoughts on the matter as best makes sense to them, I suppose.
With respect -- this isn't intended to be a dig or anything -- I'm not confident in your ability to simulate their motivations since you had trouble figuring out why we wouldn't want to do so.
 
Well the GMs will simulate character motivations and thoughts on the matter as best makes sense to them, I suppose.

If the Pangolins do agree to it, then it's certainly a viable option. My read on the situation, however, is that Pantsaa will take the suggestion as a huge insult. We are, after all, talking about using the scroll and the summoner contract, both of which have religious significance to them, as a mundane tool for a weird plot. Remember, Pantsaa has little reason to care about Naruto or his importance to Jiraiya and Leaf.

I honestly think the idea is at all viable for Jiraiya because he has a lot of goodwill and mutual trust built with the toads, and so they're somewhat likely to go along with this. And I'm not sure they will. I can easily envision a situation where, even though the scroll can be transferred back to Jiraiya, the toads will put their foot down and demand it stay with Naruto.
 
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