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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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rkyeun said:
I should point out that one of the major consequences of flipping less thans and greater thans in a (merely three-dimensional) calculus equation is that the affected volume becomes inverted. As in, instead of an explosive seal detonating everything in a fifty yard radius, it detonates everything outside that radius. In the universe. But since seals are ten dimensional or more or something, this might also include the explosion happening indefinitely into the past and future. I believe we have been warned:
Do not intentionally cause sealing mishaps.
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My Funny rating is actually a SCREAMING IN KAGOME rating.
 
Dictator4Hire said:
I was thinking of something similar: excavating and then creating an underground panic room to store the documents in in the event of an attack. We wouldn't have the documents in the room to start with because that would interfere with the normal operations of a T&I facility, but having a reliable way to safeguard our documents at a moment's notice is only sensible. To seal the documents away we should have our engineer Pangolin assist us so that as the documents in their secure filling cabinets (or w/e they are stored in) have entered the panic room said panic room then gets covered in literal tons of rocks. Once the event ends and we have to turn the documents back in to the proctors we can simply have Mr. Backhoes-for-Hands dig it out for us.

If we do the tunnel idea too though we will need to ensure a steady air supply. How many air purifier seals do we have? Could someone also do the math on exactly how large of an area we could sustain given, say only half of our supply with the other half as an emergency backup?

This is going to take a lot of math. We should get started now, tbh.
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I think having a hidden panic room and using it might be safe, but I wouldn't bet on Mist not screwing us on accessibility if we actually bury it so nobody can reach it - after all, real T&I places would probably destroy documents rather than let them fall into enemy hands, and that's been pretty clearly vetoed.
 
Actually, by the rules, we know we will face one, and only one (at least assigned) of the three teams we just beat. Of the three, which is most likely?

There are 3 other forts, and no team stays in the same fort.
 
MadScientist said:
I think there are wiser ways to achieve similar benefits. Simply treating her with friendly respect, rather than twisting the knife, making it clear to her that we won't kick her when she's down, will encourage reciprocation.
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I support this fully. We have crushed her; there is no need for excessive humiliation since this is politics as usual.

MadScientist said:
(Unless she is ordered by Hiashi to to whatever is needed to bring us down into the mud, in which case she will not play fair no matter what we do.)
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If Hiashi is either dumb enough or prideful enough to continue to insist on Hyuuga superiority after what we've done to both Neji and Hinata we should ask him what he would have done in Hinata's position in this event. Then if he actually has a solution we should ask Dad if it would be okay for the three of us and Hiashi to recreate this event back in Leaf. After what we just pulled off I have confidence in our team beating one lone jonin, no matter how strong of a clan head he may be.

Even if we fail the only thing Hiashi would prove would be that he is stronger than three newly minted chunin. If he fails he becomes the laughingstock of Leaf indefinitely.
 
Erolki said:
I think having a hidden panic room and using it might be safe, but I wouldn't bet on Mist not screwing us on accessibility if we actually bury it so nobody can reach it - after all, real T&I places would probably destroy documents rather than let them fall into enemy hands, and that's been pretty clearly vetoed.
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I see your point. How about as a backup plan to the Pangolin excavation we could cover the cabinet in explosive seals in such a way that it can blow off all of the debris on top of it and then have more seals on the bottom of it detonate so it flies up and out of the crater into the field next to where the original facility was located. Maybe the pangolin engineer could help us out with the math behind this or we could have people in the thread try to figure out just how much force we would need to pull all of this off. We might need to reinforce the cabinet with some heavy metal or rocks before trying this. However, just the image of Hazou standing calmly as the Mist proctors think they've finally got him only to see the cabinet literally rocket out of the ground to be beside him would be simply glorious.
 
Im not sure creating a panic room would be any better than creating a crypt to be honest.
 
MadScientist said:
I think there are wiser ways to achieve similar benefits. Simply treating her with friendly respect, rather than twisting the knife, making it clear to her that we won't kick her when she's down, will encourage reciprocation.

(Unless she is ordered by Hiashi to to whatever is needed to bring us down into the mud, in which case she will not play fair no matter what we do.)
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I was thinking that Hazou can empathize with Hinata by relating her current situation to his own. After all, we're not in Mist, taking part in the exam, because we want to; rather, it's something we were ordered to do for the sake of the clan. Similarly, Hinata is acting as she was ordered by her father, her own feelings on the matter largely irrelevant.

So, they could bond over how much it sucks to be a tool for furthering a clan's interests. Hazou will figure it out if we put it in a plan, he's good at being honest.
 
Sentient Tree said:
For our next sealing failure, let's divide by zero. Just to see what happens.
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The uncaught arithmetic exception propagates to the main thread, aborting the simulation. A service monitor tries to restore availability from the most recent committed backup; however due to certain benchmark-improving performance optimisations the file flush syscall on the machine running ChakraAI+ does not actually guarantee persistence, and the backup is corrupt.

Given the amount of compute time spent on the simulation already and low return on the interest, the team decides not to rerun the simulation.

From the perspective of our characters, time stops and nothing ever happens again.
 
Anderkent said:
The uncaught arithmetic exception propagates to the main thread, aborting the simulation. A service monitor tries to restore availability from the most recent committed backup; however due to certain benchmark-improving performance optimisations the file flush syscall on the machine running ChakraAI+ does not actually guarantee persistence, and the backup is corrupt.

Given the amount of compute time spent on the simulation already and low return on the interest, the team decides not to rerun the simulation.

From the perspective of our characters, time stops and nothing ever happens again.
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Alternatively: They run the corrupt backup. Canon Naruto is born.
 
Kiba said:
Incoporated everyone's feedback...I think I need to make it more coherent...
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jy3 said:
pb7 said:
I think we have an opportunity here. Remember how we can learn seals?
1. Spend a FP to have glanced at the seals Upstart used on us (motion-sensor explosive, iron slime)
2. Once we're up, look for seals on the roof. If they've somehow discovered Flying Thunder God, there should be one there. We might also find the roofbuster, if that wasn't a summon trick.
3. Learn Sealing next chance we get. If we get into the tournament, stomp them with their own tricks.
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faflec said:
lullstate said:

Don't be absurd, we're not learning Sealing in a month. Our best bet for fighting Team Goketsu is to get some sort of AOE mist seal from our family that ruins seal ink. And also some sort of gapcloser to take out Keiko before her Pangolins become an issue.
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Immortal Lurker said:
Transient_Commenter says:
I agree that we should never give Goketsu a target to punch ever again, and that we should go after the other red rampage members. But the best part is that we don't have to do the punching.

Goketsu is going to get released dead last. All the other blue teams can leave a few members behind to form an ambush. The proctors won't hand out -1000s because they hate Goketsu. We know they have bad awareness because they didn't notice the ambush in event 4. All they have to do is take out Keiko. Then the red teams form an alliance to crush Goketsu.

They are good at security, but in the swamp no one was really motivated to take them out. Things are different now.
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faflec said:
lullstate said:

I'm...fairly certain Blue team attacking other Blue teams during setup, in clear violation of the spirit of the rules, is a bit much, especially in front of a proctor. Mist may hate Goketsu but they can't be too overt about it, that's just asking for a shitshow that gets a hammer down against them.

As for the Event 4 ambush, that was Hazou who didn't notice. Hazou. Just Hazou. I refuse to believe that our team's Stealth is gonna out-sneak their entire team's Alertness. Especially considering the results of those rolls, and the fact that there's nothing stopping Keiko from getting another Pangolin up (something something Pankurashun something something Jonin level bullshit).
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MadScientist said:
MadPoet:

Hazou didn't notice a trap at night, so we got an aspect tag for poor visibility. Team Uplift did collectively notice our traps during the third event. We can't count on blindsiding them with this.
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Adept_Woodwright said:
Actually, by the rules, we know we will face one, and only one (at least assigned) of the three teams we just beat. Of the three, which is most likely?

There are 3 other forts, and no team stays in the same fort.
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By the rules we will face a mix of squads that haven't worked together this event, and be matched up with two other squads from two of the other red teams. This is of course provided that we haven't beaten the snot out of literally everyone and caused them to drop out due to the injuries we've inflicted upon them.

Now, as far as our opposition goes... there's two tacts they could take here. The first is that Mist expected us to lose the first round badly, or at least not be able to score points. They did put us up against a team that was very strong for defense - Team Kurenai for the Byakugan and other tracking elements to see us coming, Hazama's team to give them the Lightning Pillar jutsu, and Team Downfall to give them Wakahisa reserves, trap making expertise, and extra insight into us. With this tact, they would put us up against a more normal team next round to make it not look like they're being too hard on us.

The second option is that they want to screw us next round too, not caring what it looks like, in which case I expect the intended plan is to put us up against squads from Waterfall, Hot Springs, and Rock, which would be a nightmare combination to defend against. The invisibility bloodline would allow them a stealth option, with Blood Clones allowing for good scouting options and the Minawa reserves to help them keep using jutsu, and the top Rock team has a bunch of Earth jutsu to allow for scouting and demolitions. Now, I put emphasis on the word intended here, because we may well throw a wrench in it by doing well here today and inflicting Moderate Consequences on enough people that they'll drop out.

Unfortunately, some of the people in these groups have a good chance of some of their members escaping today's rampage. The invisible girl can escape due to being invisible and assuredly a stealth specialist, unless we're really lucky in catching her. The Kotsuzui bloodhound kid apparently can heal absurdly fast, which means that even if we get him with Moderate Consequences today he might actually have healed in time for Round 2, and the Namazu on the Rock team could potentially escape with Hiding Like a Mole. IMO with this combination we're likely going to want to go on a more aggressive defense strategy for Round 2, attacking them as soon as their two hours of planning time is up.

EDIT - though it should also be kept in mind that Mist would want some of these teams eliminated as well as us, if not as much. They do need to ensure some of their own genin get into the tournament, and keeping three top scoring teams together next round doesn't help with that.
 
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Enjou said:
By the rules we will face a mix of squads that haven't worked together this event, and be matched up with two other squads from two of the other red teams. This is of course provided that we haven't beaten the snot out of literally everyone and caused them to drop out due to the injuries we've inflicted upon them.

Now, as far as our opposition goes... there's two tacts they could take here. The first is that Mist expected us to lose the first round badly, or at least not be able to score points. They did put us up against a team that was very strong for defense - Team Kurenai for the Byakugan and other tracking elements to see us coming, Hazama's team to give them the Lightning Pillar jutsu, and Team Downfall to give them Wakahisa reserves, trap making expertise, and extra insight into us. With this tact, they would put us up against a more normal team next round to make it not look like they're being too hard on us.

The second option is that they want to screw us next round too, not caring what it looks like, in which case I expect the intended plan is to put us up against squads from Waterfall, Hot Springs, and Rock, which would be a nightmare combination to defend against. The invisibility bloodline would allow them a stealth option, with Blood Clones allowing for good scouting options and the Minawa reserves to help them keep using jutsu, and the top Rock team has a bunch of Earth jutsu to allow for scouting and demolitions. Now, I put emphasis on the word intended here, because we may well throw a wrench in it by doing well here today and inflicting Moderate Consequences on enough people that they'll drop out.

Unfortunately, some of the people in these groups have a good chance of some of their members escaping today's rampage. The invisible girl can escape due to being invisible and assuredly a stealth specialist, unless we're really lucky in catching her. The Kotsuzui bloodhound kid apparently can heal absurdly fast, which means that even if we get him with Moderate Consequences today he might actually have healed in time for Round 2, and the Namazu on the Rock team could potentially escape with Hiding Like a Mole. IMO with this combination we're likely going to want to go on a more aggressive defense strategy for Round 2, attacking them as soon as their two hours of planning time is up.

EDIT - though it should also be kept in mind that Mist would want some of these teams eliminated as well as us, if not as much. They do need to ensure some of their own genin get into the tournament, and keeping three top scoring teams together next round doesn't help with that.
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We have to have one of the three teams we just beat as an assigned opponent next round: they're all full teams so they cant split up. They won't return to this location, and neither will we. 3 teams to 3 other facilities, and our 3 teams to those same other facilities. No teams work together again.

I lean toward facing the Cloud team (if they don't withdraw) because of the no line-of-sight technique. That could plausibly strike us even through a fully 5SB fortification.
 
Enjou said:
By the rules we will face a mix of squads that haven't worked together this event, and be matched up with two other squads from two of the other red teams.
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Is this the case anymore? The rules in the update (Chapter 194) don't mention us splitting squads up or anything like that.
Enjou said:
Unfortunately, some of the people in these groups have a good chance of some of their members escaping today's rampage. The invisible girl can escape due to being invisible and assuredly a stealth specialist, unless we're really lucky in catching her. The Kotsuzui bloodhound kid apparently can heal absurdly fast, which means that even if we get him with Moderate Consequences today he might actually have healed in time for Round 2, and the Namazu on the Rock team could potentially escape with Hiding Like a Mole. IMO with this combination we're likely going to want to go on a more aggressive defense strategy for Round 2, attacking them as soon as their two hours of planning time is up.
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Are we even allowed to attack them like that? Honest question.
 
faflec said:
Is this the case anymore? The rules in the update (Chapter 194) don't mention us splitting squads up or anything like that.

Are we even allowed to attack them like that? Honest question.
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Well, we're not supposed to know where they're at. If we do know where they are, I see no reason we couldn't.
 
faflec said:
Is this the case anymore? The rules in the update (Chapter 194) don't mention us splitting squads up or anything like that.
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Chapter 194 doesn't state it, but it doesn't state that we'll be working with the same group either.

I will note another strategy Mist might employ in Round 2 if we've done extremely well in Round 1 is to put any Mist-nin we missed into our team and give us an easier Red Team to fight against, on the premise that putting their people on our team will make them safer.

faflec said:
Are we even allowed to attack them like that? Honest question.
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There's no rule against it. While attacking before the two hours are up would likely be considered interfering with the proctors, attacking afterwards would fail utterly.


By the by, I have an idea for dealing with the invisibility girl - tomorrow, in the barracks, have Keiko summon Pandā, and introduce the adorable little bugger around. Rudely shove him into the space of invisible girl, insisting how adorable he is. He just wants to cuddle! Sniff sniff, oh, he's got her scent. Totally didn't do that on purpose. Hey Pandā, want to help with our mission tomorrow?
 
Enjou said:
By the by, I have an idea for dealing with the invisibility girl - tomorrow, in the barracks, have Keiko summon Pandā, and introduce the adorable little bugger around. Rudely shove him into the space of invisible girl, insisting how adorable he is. He just wants to cuddle! Sniff sniff, oh, he's got her scent. Totally didn't do that on purpose. Hey Pandā, want to help with our mission tomorrow?
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Smart idea, hopefully Keiko won't veto it due to the risk of violating barracks rules or whatever. Or because Pandā has shit scent-tracking abilities.

An idea I was considering regarding invisibility (and burrowing, for that matter) would be to use some of our proximity detection-based explosives. Kagome says in Chapter 124 below that they can trigger with tunnelers, and presumably they'd get set off with the invisibility user as well.
eaglejarl said:
"Half a second to two minutes. Or you can set them for proximity detonation. Good for securing the perimeter. Automatically deactivates after twelve hours in case you need to move them."

Jiraiya's eyebrows shot up. That was an unusual trigger mechanism and tricky to get right, especially if there was a secondary trigger built in. "Spherical detection or cone? What's the range?"

"Spherical," Kagome said, as though offended. "What's the point in cones? Just lets the stinkers sneak around 'em. Ten meter range. Goes off if you get tunnelers, but probably won't hurt them. Still, it's a good warning."
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Enjou said:
Chapter 194 doesn't state it, but it doesn't state that we'll be working with the same group either.

I will note another strategy Mist might employ in Round 2 if we've done extremely well in Round 1 is to put any Mist-nin we missed into our team and give us an easier Red Team to fight against, on the premise that putting their people on our team will make them safer.
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Why don't they just give us the candidates who are most hurt by our rampage in round 1 and held personal grudges and only wanted us to fail and nothing else?

Edit: as our teammates.

Edit 2: or just split us up as a group since we've eliminated uninjured genin, and it's only fair if as many blue teams as possible have uninjured genin.
 
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Current state of the Maddened Enclave:

MadPoet is grumbling quietly about Hazou being a villain sue. MadEngineer is cackling hysterically and cheering Hazou on. Future!MadScientist is still MIA. MadArchitect is doing... something off with the other Ren-hiveminders. And most of the others are trying to figure out how to spread the hivemind infection to the Uchiha.
 
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