In the interest of moving things along: correct, your teammates betraying you isn't what I was referencing when I mentioned the "extremely important negative thing".

Well, that's reassuring then. No real chance for wordplay there. :D

The wordplay trick in that one is that it does not deny that our team-mates are betraying us, only that that betrayal is not the important negative thing.
 
@Roomba Some thoughts on your proto-plan.
Fulfill nominal objectives, then proceed to knock out as many of the other candidates as possible, with the intent of inflicting maximum point penalties. Steal their word halves.
"Maximum point penalties" would involve inflicting Severe Consequences (read: break arms/legs), as they deduct some 25 points from those peoples' scores, or something like that. But I don't think we want to do that, since we'd lose 200 points; plus you say to use Moderate Consequences later. Maybe clarify this?
Summon Pankurashun, Pangaya and Panashe.
Pankurashun has already been summoned. I think the plan was to summon Pangaya, Panashe, and Pandojuru?
Frontline fighters get Banshees/Goo Bombs. Stress that these are valuable and that we're going to want them back if unused.
If we're giving them Banshees/Earbusters we should be giving them Banshee Slayers, so that they aren't hurt from the attack.
Scouting and Interference: Panashe, Doigama and Kato(?)
Doigama should also have that (?), honestly.
This should go after the Strategy section.
If assaulting a building, breach from multiple directions simultaneously, and clear room by room. Focus on enemies, let scouts look for traps after they're down.
Suggestion: Use explosives to trigger traps safely?
Destroy enemy documents, put red team members into cells. Inflict moderate consequences on everyone. Steal their word halves.
To be clear: You aren't advocating destroying the documents we're sent to retrieve, only those in other groups.
This should really go at the top, during the 2 hours we get for prep.
 
I'm not sure I want to overdo the intimidation right now. We want to cooperate with at least some of the candidates in round 2, and going out of our way to terrify them could impede that.
It seems we're imagining it differently. My vision: We effortlessly break their squads and their spirits with our overwhelming power, bind them and take their possessions. We say that this will happen again overmorrow, and that there's little they could do to prevent it. We say that their word-halves are in the Seventh Path, and could not be retrieved without our permission. We say that, if and only if they [insert deal here] next round, we will be merciful and return them.

Wouldn't that be more efficient, than trying to sell them on our deal in the interim period? Mental Consequences + Seventh Path assurance + word-halves deal, done simultaneously in the aftermath of their (supposed) humiliating defeat. Exclude teams we want to cooperate with in a different manner from this treatment, of course.

I think the same is true about fetching proctors, unless you want something very specific?
I'm not sure that "fetching a proctor" is such an obvious action, given that we're technically going against the event's spirit and that Mist hates us. Would the team think about them as assets?
I would add a line about doing that if we see an opportunity to -1000 a Blue Team, at the very least.

Of the other contingencies, the first one I don't know how we can prevent
Fetch a proctor if one of the Blue Teams is involved. If it's purely Red Teams... I'm not sure either. Try to get them to scatter with enormous firelog mac youthenizers? Just run away?

We're already scouting ahead; we need to pay special attention to multiple-Teams congregations, inform the pangolin scouts about the possibility.
 
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"For both sides: Crippling injuries are discouraged. A crippling injury is anything that would prevent someone from competing in the tournament—broken arms, legs, fingers, heads, blindness, whatever. If there is doubt, medic-nin proctors will decide what constitutes a crippling injury. Anyone causing such an injury receives a two hundred point penalty per instance. In addition, all contestants onsite at the time, and all teammates of those people, receive a fifty point penalty. Yes, this includes the person causing the injury, the person receiving it, and all teammates of both of those people. Don't let your teammates fuck around and don't let yourself get hurt.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Do the penalties for crippling injuries stack? For example, if Hazou and Keiko are at a site and Hazou cripples Shin, does Keiko receive -50 points for being onsite and another -50 for being Hazou's teammate?
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Do the penalties for crippling injuries stack? For example, if Hazou and Keiko are at a site and Hazou cripples Shin, does Keiko receive -50 points for being onsite and another -50 for being Hazou's teammate?
HDK

Edit: Also if we aren't allowed to assault people in the second round we have to go and punch every red team in round 1 to guarantee that they have a ton of negative points
 
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It seems we're imagining it differently. My vision: We effortlessly break their squads and their spirits with our overwhelming power, bind them and take their possessions. We say that this will happen again overmorrow, and that there's little they could do to prevent it. We say that their word-halves are in the Seventh Path, and could not be retrieved without our permission. We say that, if and only if they [insert deal here] next round, we will be merciful and return them.

Wouldn't that be more efficient, than trying to sell them on our deal in the interim period? Mental Consequences + Seventh Path assurance + word-halves deal, done simultaneously in the aftermath of their (supposed) humiliating defeat. Exclude teams we want to cooperate with in a different manner from this treatment, of course.

The OOC reason not to do it now is that I'd rather go into more detail in a separate plan. I also want to very publically announce that we're open to deals for the half words, so everyone knows it for round 2. The ability to sow distrust amongst our enemies in round 2 is as valuable as actually forcing them to do things.

Pankurashun has already been summoned. I think the plan was to summon Pangaya, Panashe, and Pandojuru?

I listed Pankurashun for completeness. Getting 4 Pangolins out really drains our reserves and may require chakra donation from the rest of the team. For the proto plan, I picked a simple and conservative default instead. But this is very much subject to change in the real plan.

If we're giving them Banshees/Earbusters we should be giving them Banshee Slayers, so that they aren't hurt from the attack.

Hm, do you recall how long Banshee Slayers last? It'd need to be at least a couple of hours to make this worthwhile.

Doigama should also have that (?), honestly.

Kinda. He did claim he could stealth though, and we don't have any better options.

Suggestion: Use explosives to trigger traps safely?

The problem is not triggering them, but rather detection.
 
I'm unclear.... do we have a layout on where all five of the buildings are and a certain knowledge of which one is our target?

We're within a mile of our facility and the rest are "well separated so that you slimy bastards won't be tripping on each other." Which I interpret as us having to go a bit out of our way (comparatively, still shouldn't be too hard) to find the other facilities.
 
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I'm unclear.... do we have a layout on where all five of the buildings are and a certain knowledge of which one is our target?
That seems to be the collective assumption, yes.
The OOC reason not to do it now is that I'd rather go into more detail in a separate plan. I also want to very publically announce that we're open to deals for the half words, so everyone knows it for round 2. The ability to sow distrust amongst our enemies in round 2 is as valuable as actually forcing them to do things.
Hmm. I think if the experiment with incentivizing short plans actually hurts our efficiency, we should adjust the incentives, not make plans less comprehensive. "Is that actually a superior choice in-universe?" is all that should matter.

I'm not yet convinced it is. Would making it on per-team basis somehow decrease the distrust, if all teams will know that we've destroyed all other teams, and therefore that we likely offered them all the same deal?
 
Hm, do you recall how long Banshee Slayers last? It'd need to be at least a couple of hours to make this worthwhile.
I was thinking more along the lines of "activate when about to engage, deactivate when done"? We're not using them 24/7 and we really should give our teammates protection.
The problem is not triggering them, but rather detection.
I was hoping that we could do something like "see room, explode room, clear room, repeat".
I'm unclear.... do we have a layout on where all five of the buildings are and a certain knowledge of which one is our target?
The one where we're at is 1 mile away, the others are ~5 miles away.
 
Hmm. I think if the experiment with incentivizing short plans actually hurts our efficiency, we should adjust the incentives, not make plans less comprehensive. "Is that actually a superior choice in-universe?" is all that should matter.
Ignoring short plan for reasons of the bonus XP , just dealing with Round 1 is going to be quite a large plan. There's a lot to account for and we don't have any wiggle room to fuck up anymore.
 
Um. Why are we destroying documents? We have no guarantee that the facility we're put next to is the one that has OUR documents.
 
Proctors not answering anything more mate.

I'll add your question to the list of things the proctor will mock us for per @eaglejarl s request though
For the record, the loophole is this: If penalties for critical injuries stack, we can exploit this by gathering all our beaten-up foes in one place, then leave it. Have one fall guy (Doigama, Katō) stay behind. Once we've gotten far enough away (so that we don't trigger the "onsite") penalty, the fall guy starts breaking limbs. Our team loses -50 points for being the fall guy's teammate, but everybody else loses -100 points (-50 for being onsite, -50 for being the injured party's teammate).
 
The one where we're at is 1 mile away, the others are ~5 miles away.

They're all five miles from some central point (the staging area), but that does not mean they are five miles from our current location.

They facilities are probably equidistant from each other, or close to it, so we might be occupying one spoke of four that comes off the central point of the staging area. I'd assume we're at one corner of a square centered on the staging area. The following passage does seem to lead credence to that idea.


She took them into the woods for ten minutes; the path included several changes of direction and switchbacks that almost certainly existed only as an attempt to confuse the genin. Kei wasn't sure if the foreigners were affected or not, but Team Uplift had spent far too much time orienteering in the wilderness (the real wilderness, not this domesticated silliness around Mist) that it wasn't an issue.

They might be trying to disorient us here just for the fuck of it, but it could also be an attempt to make the other facilities harder to find.
 
For the record, the loophole is this: If penalties for critical injuries stack, we can exploit this by gathering all our beaten-up foes in one place, then leave it. Have one fall guy (Doigama, Katō) stay behind. Once we've gotten far enough away (so that we don't trigger the "onsite") penalty, the fall guy starts breaking limbs. Our team loses -50 points for being the fall guy's teammate, but everybody else loses -100 points (-50 for being onsite, -50 for being the injured party's teammate).
You are assuming that it doesn't stack in our direction?

If he breaks 5 peoples legs that sounds like 5 separate penalties to me.

Edit: Actually, i see what you're saying but a relative gain of 50 points seems too small for these sorts of antics
 
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Um. Why are we destroying documents? We have no guarantee that the facility we're put next to is the one that has OUR documents.

The following quote seems to imply that we should not be close enough to other facilities that we would end up accidentally assaulting the wrong one.

About five miles outside that gate there are four simulated Torture and Interrogation facilities, constructed for this event. They are well separated so that you slimy bastards won't be tripping on each other.

If the proctor outright lied here it becomes just blatantly obvious that they're trying to fuck us over and violating the sancity of the event in doing so. Because if we're close enough to accidentally mix up which facilitates correspond to which red teams, so are the other red teams. If the facilities are close enough to each other that red teams are accidentally assaulting the wrong ones that'll fuck up scoring for literally everyone.
 
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You are assuming that it doesn't stack in our direction?

If he breaks 5 peoples legs that sounds like 5 separate penalties to me.
Sure, 5 separate penalties of -50 due to being the fall guy's teammate. But everyone who's onsite (read: everyone but us) gets -50 for being onsite, and the teammates of each injured person gets another -50 for being that poor sob's teammate.

Overall we'd gain another 50 points for this, assuming we can get everyone else in one place.
 
Sure, 5 separate penalties of -50 due to being the fall guy's teammate. But everyone who's onsite (read: everyone but us) gets -50 for being onsite, and the teammates of each injured person gets another -50 for being that poor sob's teammate.

Overall we'd gain another 50 points for this, assuming we can get everyone else in one place.
This seems like extra complexity that we don't need to add though? The gains are pretty marginal.

I also doubt the proctors would allow us to skate by with this shit. Remember: The Rules are the Rules except if you're us and try to find a tricky loophole they didn't foresee or intend to be there. If we break 50 legs they could very well cause major problems for Jiraiya, and it would be ~4 Kage and a bunch of minor villages voting for us to be DQed over it.

Edit: Really if we're trying to game the rules like this we should bribe one of the others to intentionally get a -1000 penalty next round for their team. Seems much safer.
 
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Do the penalties for crippling injuries stack? For example, if Hazou and Keiko are at a site and Hazou cripples Shin, does Keiko receive -50 points for being onsite and another -50 for being Hazou's teammate?
For the record, the loophole is this: If penalties for critical injuries stack, we can exploit this by gathering all our beaten-up foes in one place, then leave it. Have one fall guy (Doigama, Katō) stay behind. Once we've gotten far enough away (so that we don't trigger the "onsite") penalty, the fall guy starts breaking limbs. Our team loses -50 points for being the fall guy's teammate, but everybody else loses -100 points (-50 for being onsite, -50 for being the injured party's teammate).
Let's save time: the Severe consequences rules are there because the Exams are supposed to be a place where villages can come together and compete without TOO much danger. Deliberately savaging your opponents and then telling the proctors "ha ha this is to our benefit because rules lawyer!" is not going to work out well for you. The penalties are intended to cover the case where you accidentally injure someone, and there are no circumstances under which deliberately crippling a person would be a good thing for you, especially if they are already a prisoner. Keiko and Noburi will tell you this in the update.


I was thinking more along the lines of "activate when about to engage, deactivate when done"? We're not using them 24/7 and we really should give our teammates protection.

I was hoping that we could do something like "see room, explode room, clear room, repeat".

The one where we're at is 1 mile away, the others are ~5 miles away.
Um. Why are we destroying documents? We have no guarantee that the facility we're put next to is the one that has OUR documents.
All of the facilities are roughly 5 miles from the city gate. You don't know their arrangement to each other. It's reasonable to assume that your proctor has brought you to your own facility, since doing otherwise would scream of bias.
 
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