Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
We do need to focus on Hazō's(or rather, the hivemind's) yo-yo like performance issue. He's sometime awesome....and sometime he just made the worst possible tactical choices.
Aetharian
Currently on Fire
- Location
- USA
Do you mean for going off or for clearing vision? If you mean for clearing vision, probably because it doesn't store the air, it just pushes it away, now that doesn't mean the mist won't come back, we don't know how much they have, but it is most likely going to be better than an implosion seal for clearing sight
- Location
- Yes.
Because the explosive would push force in all directions from the seal, moving the mist away. It would at the least work better than an equivalent implosion seal.
- Location
- UK
Mojibake.
So, some of the mistakes distilled.
Mistake One: Turtling under the Air
- Pointed out at least by one player that it was a bad idea since it brunch up the genins.
- Nobody on the player side pointed out the problem of Mist draining. This is something that we collectively forgot/overlook.
Mistake Two: Assumption about Leadership
- Ignored the QM ruling that not everybody is going to follow Hazō's leadership. Everybody knows this. Yet this mistake was followed in the plan.
Thankfully, the QM gave us some slack, but suffice to say, we overlooked important details, some of which was stated outright to us.
How to avoid those kind of mistakes is an ongoing challenge that I am not particularly hopeful we will resolve any time soon.
Mistake One: Turtling under the Air
- Pointed out at least by one player that it was a bad idea since it brunch up the genins.
- Nobody on the player side pointed out the problem of Mist draining. This is something that we collectively forgot/overlook.
Mistake Two: Assumption about Leadership
- Ignored the QM ruling that not everybody is going to follow Hazō's leadership. Everybody knows this. Yet this mistake was followed in the plan.
Thankfully, the QM gave us some slack, but suffice to say, we overlooked important details, some of which was stated outright to us.
How to avoid those kind of mistakes is an ongoing challenge that I am not particularly hopeful we will resolve any time soon.
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well I was under then impression you couldn't drain through chakra mist
I also assumed that implosion seal would disperse the mist if it was real.
Edit: also good news the mist is at most only 10 meters cube
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There's a large source of water....The Swamp.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
You can't drain through chakra mist but we're in a swamp so Aiko had plenty of regular water to call upon. Even beyond that, we were alerted to the enemies because Noburi was being drained through the mist.
I also thought that the implosion seal would disperse the mist, but in retrospect that thought process more or less ended at 'oh it's meant to disperse the mist' and I assumed it would work because my brain recognized that someone thought it through and thought it would work and my brain piggybacked on that logic.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes which is why I assumed it was a non chakra construct so could be sealed.
- Location
- UK
This strat seems really counterproductive. Under Air Dome there are a bunch of ways to clear the air, at least in theory (and Nara has little reason to assume otherwise, given our actions), and if Noburi is safe the maximum net drain is the delta between their abilities. On top of that, drain is mostly dangerous when it's targeted (a minute per person isn't that quick when battles take a third of that), and Noburi can trivially balance the drain out.
Once we move out of the safety of our prepared-sealmaster-holeup, not only are we inversing who is prepared for whom, but we're not preventing drain, and making ourselves more vulnerable to it since Noburi is less able to act as a counterbalance. It doesn't help that it feels Nara has taken the most predictable response to the situation, ergo the one that's most likely to be a trap.
Though to be really evil the implosion seal should have created a condensation cloud.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The size varies depending on how much chakra you spend.
Ah, so it is. I saw @Velorien's original post in which it was 'Makiko', but that must have been a first name. I'll change it.
How does Noburi balance the drain? He can't put chakra into people without them drinking the water and there's no time to get the water out of the barrel during combat.
- Location
- ...Nice try.
Yet. Growth mindset!
You get a chakra! You get a chakra! You get a chakra! EVERYBODY gets a chakra!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Having just spent about 9 hours fiddling with numbers and character sheets, I can confidently state that y'all are doing just fine on the power curve. Like, seriously. It's a little gross.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Ultimately, I believe these problems were a result of making a detail oriented plan which lacked general instructions in a situation where we didn't know the details, and didn't allow for Hazou to update on new information in the plan (esp. Hyuga calling out info, and the fog apparently already being there). To address each point from my perspective (it looks like people used my plan despite my non-participation in the voting period):
So, my impression was that the mist wasn't in the fort. Since the mist was "cresting the walls" and we were told
I assumed we had at least 3 seconds to act before the mist reached us, which, I was under the impression was enough time to put up an air dome, especially as the mist wouldn't have reached us by then. I fully agree that this strategy was bad given that the mist was apparently there in the first place. If I had known that, I would have made a different plan.
Again, my impression was that the fog/mist wasn't in the fort, which would have made it much more viable. Given that there *was* fog in the fort, an explosion seal would have done much better.
The purpose of the imposion seal was to clear the mist, at least momentarily, so we could get a clean Air Dome up.
That's a fair critique. I did not expect the other ninja to react as quickly as they did, and that's my fault for underestimating them. Also, given that Nara was going to just call out battlefield info from the start, that's definitely the better use of words and stuff.
Right, so my impression there was that ninja were literally at our walls, and that we'd be fighting in the fort, not in the swamp. Obviously the moment we left the fort, it becomes a bad situation. Also, I'd intended on Pangolin's Communion being used for primary battlefield communication between our team, with Noburi and Keiko's extra-sensory abilities trumping our own.
I just didn't think of this.
Ultimately, I think the primary failing of the plan was that it was too strict an instruction set for what was going to happen and worked off incorrect information (Mist not being in the fort, having at least a round to put up defenses). I think a better plan would have more explicitly hedged what it said, for instance, talking over Neji when he called out information on our opponents was definitely not a good call on our part.
Anyways, I'm gonna devote my efforts this voting period to finishing my combat code rather than developing combat tactics. Hopefully I'll have something to show for it before Wednesday, and it can make the resulting battle easier for the QMs to calculate.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@eaglejarl did any of our traps get triggered?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Aye, I was under this impression too, as I mentioned before. It's kind of unfortunate; had I been aware otherwise, I definitely would not have voted for that.
Enough recriminations. I for one expected the implosion seals to consolidate the fine suspension of mist into large drops of rain, but that's not important right now. What do we do now? Count on everybody to scatter and reform? Try to link up? Try to drill straight for the Waka?
If she doesn't have a lot of support with her Hazou actually has a decent chance of disrupting her operations with enough surprise firepower. GBW will make anybody duck and increasing local temperature makes the air absorb the mist back into vapor while the pressure wave pushes more away. Start hurling those on a straight line towards her and she's going to have to adapt, and probably assume that either Nobs or a Hyuga is directing the assault. Since she's probably using her ability to direct the others who can't see there goes the enemy C&C.
-not to mention that with Kagome not being on the field any Leaf-nin is going to hear a screaming banshee running headlong into a straight line of GBWs and explosive seals thrown at quarter-second intervals towards the last-known location of the greatest threat and think, "Yup, found Hazou."
If she doesn't have a lot of support with her Hazou actually has a decent chance of disrupting her operations with enough surprise firepower. GBW will make anybody duck and increasing local temperature makes the air absorb the mist back into vapor while the pressure wave pushes more away. Start hurling those on a straight line towards her and she's going to have to adapt, and probably assume that either Nobs or a Hyuga is directing the assault. Since she's probably using her ability to direct the others who can't see there goes the enemy C&C.
-not to mention that with Kagome not being on the field any Leaf-nin is going to hear a screaming banshee running headlong into a straight line of GBWs and explosive seals thrown at quarter-second intervals towards the last-known location of the greatest threat and think, "Yup, found Hazou."
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- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
@eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien I'm trying to figure out a good user-interface for a command-line script that simulates a ninja battle helpfully and accurately (and flexibly enough to use). Would code run from the command line which asked the following questions (and did the requisite background calculations and stat tracking) be helpful and accurate for simulating a battle?
1) Ask user for number of ninja in a battle
2) For each ninja, ask user for excel file/google doc with their stats (or manually enter their stats)
3) Roll Initiative
For ninja in Initiative:
The above is my current thought on how to automate combat from a high level (obviously there's backend stuff too, but I think I've got a pretty good handle on how to handle that). I think steps 5-8 will likely need to be somewhat different for different actions, but I think the above general outline would work.
Do you have interest in such a code? If so, would you prefer it be structured differently from the above?
1) Ask user for number of ninja in a battle
2) For each ninja, ask user for excel file/google doc with their stats (or manually enter their stats)
3) Roll Initiative
For ninja in Initiative:
4) Ask user for specific action & boost (e.g. Tai, or boosted by 4 Tai with Roki and Claws, or Move, or Goo Bomb)
5) Ask user which ninja or ninjas attacker is targeting/rolling against (e.g. whichever ninja are in the area of effect, or whatever ninja is going to try to stop / run from the move action)
6) Ask user which defense the targeted ninja(s) will use, and if they will boost (e.g. Tac_Move boost 3)
7) Ask user if Mass Combat bonus applies, and if so, which ninja with which skills on both sides of the attack
8) Calculate and display rolls and results, update ninja_class_object for each involved ninja adding injuries, removing pangolin conditioning, removing chakra points, etc. as necessary
9) Return to 4 until all actions are completed for this ninja
10) print stats of all current involved ninja and ask if combat over - if not, return to 35) Ask user which ninja or ninjas attacker is targeting/rolling against (e.g. whichever ninja are in the area of effect, or whatever ninja is going to try to stop / run from the move action)
6) Ask user which defense the targeted ninja(s) will use, and if they will boost (e.g. Tac_Move boost 3)
7) Ask user if Mass Combat bonus applies, and if so, which ninja with which skills on both sides of the attack
8) Calculate and display rolls and results, update ninja_class_object for each involved ninja adding injuries, removing pangolin conditioning, removing chakra points, etc. as necessary
9) Return to 4 until all actions are completed for this ninja
The above is my current thought on how to automate combat from a high level (obviously there's backend stuff too, but I think I've got a pretty good handle on how to handle that). I think steps 5-8 will likely need to be somewhat different for different actions, but I think the above general outline would work.
Do you have interest in such a code? If so, would you prefer it be structured differently from the above?
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- Location
- Australia
apparently our shit-tier fortifications and traps were a complete waste of fucking time and chakra. lesson learned.
And for the record, perhaps if the mist surrounding and enveloping us was accurately described things may have been planned differently.
And for the record, perhaps if the mist surrounding and enveloping us was accurately described things may have been planned differently.