The Wakahisa ability to drain chakra through mist is quite different. Suddenly draining someone through mist is going to relatively frequently be something that would get a Wakahisa out of certain death. Wakahisa are going to often come up against situations where their chance of living is much higher if they use the ability, even if death isn't certain without it. The Wakahisa gain greatly from having a few people every generation make use of the ability, much like the Kurosawa do. A ninjutsu specialist jonin who can drain through mist is a recipe for an S rank, or at least a high A rank, and it would be incredibly useful to the Wakahisa to have one of those every generation. However, the Wakahisa can't do that and get the benefit of the ability while keeping it secret.
There's a few reasons why it's easier to conceal than it might initially seem:

  • There are jutsu that generate mist, but that mist is a chakra construct unless there is a large water source immediately at hand. Wakahisa can't drain through chakra constructs, so the ability will be used far less often than you might think.
  • If it's a one-on-one fight then you just kill the target and the secret is safe. If it's your-team-on-one then you probably don't need to use the technique. It's only when it's many-on-you or many-on-many that you need to use it. Wakahisa are generally a support clan (how much of that is deliberate is left as an exercise for the reader) which means they are generally on the back line.
  • The fact that there is mist makes it harder to see what's happening.
  • It's possible to disguise what you're doing by making some handseals and shouting "Stunning Wind Strike no Jutsu!" or whatever.


Oh, that's it. I've had it with this quest.

[Χ] Armageddon Initiative
We are convinced by good arguments, admit to making a mistake, and go to the trouble of unwinding it...and your response is ragequitting and trying to terminate the quest for everyone else? Huh.
 
Still not really buying that this "clan secrets" business is as... well, as open-and-shut as to have Noburi, Keiko, and Kagome all having exactly the same opinion on it.

To me it's much more of a "reasonable opinions will differ" issue where some ninja clans will want to hold their secrets as tightly as possible while others will take the attitude, "An ability we can't use for fear of discovery is an ability that's of no use," and be much more casual about disclosing the abilities to allies. This should very much be a matter of debate and discussion, not "Hazou is wrong and everyone else is right".

Now I could see being pissed that Hazou preempted the discussion by just going and pushing his own point of view in exposing the secrets, but shit has been moving fast. There's been very little time for discussion and to build a consensus. Hazou made a mistake in not trying to find some privacy to discuss it first, but his basic point of view is not a mistake and could reasonably be argued.
 
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You realise that the barriers to total annihilation have gone up considerably, right? Now you not only have to devise a means but make Hazō believe it's a good idea.
Yes, but the biggest challenge has always been getting the player base on board with it. I'm reasonably confident that there's now enough support we can sneak suggesting Kagome research something like stacked implosion seals as a way of making a bigger boom, then, over-prepared man that he is, Kagome will do so. Then, if Kagome just gets hit by an explosive seal, the elemental nations disappear. While Hazou is the vessel through which we interact, he is not necessarily the executor of Armageddon.
 
I must admit I didn't get it either. I only figured it might be a joke because of the sheer incongruity and the fact that people were marking it "funny".

The sheer incongruity is what clued me off. I've seen @Vecht remark multiple times on how he enjoys the quest, so in my mind it was basically him making a dramatic declaration a la: "I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!"... but with a laugh track after.
 
Time for some Clear Communication no Jutsu:

Ooh! Ooh! I've always wanted to try this! Let me:

First, I still thing all of you are really good writers, this update did not change that.
Second, I totally disagree about players making a mistake, there have been several people explaining how the clan secret stuff and kagome's reaction did not make any sense in the story with the information the players had been given. I can believe you feel like players did something stupid, but honestly, I can't twist my head around to get how or why, but I can respect that.
Third, i want to honestly say that i've seen no insults since the last update, not a single one. Maybe some slander, yeah, that might have been slander yes.
But if the harsh critique you've received was as hurtful as you described, then i need to say that i'm genuinely baffled how you can survive on the internet with skin this thin, and i would honestly advise staying out of internet forums and the like, , because I'm worried that you might get seriously hurt emotionally . As i said, i honestly didn't see a thing in this thread that i would call an insult.
This all aside, i still love your writing, I probably lost interest in this quest, because i don't believe this is the last time we'll see this type of ...incident.
Thanks for all the fish, especially velorien.

clear communication no jutsu out.
 
Still not really buying that this "clan secrets" business is as... well, as open-and-shut as to have Noburi, Keiko, and Kagome all having exactly the same opinion on it.

To me it's much more of a "reasonable opinions will differ" issue where some ninja clans will want to hold their secrets as tightly as possible while others will take the attitude, "An ability we can't use for fear of discovery is an ability that's of no use," and be much more casual about disclosing the abilities to allies. This should very much be a matter of debate and discussion, not "Hazou is wrong and everyone else is right".

Now I could see being pissed that Hazou preempted the discussion by just going and pushing his own point of view in exposing the secrets, but shit has been moving fast. There's been very little time for discussion and to build a consensus. Hazou made a mistake in not trying to find some privacy to discuss it first, but his basic point of view is not a mistake and could reasonably be argued.
It is worth bearing in mind that Noburi and Keiko were brought up as clan ninja, while Hazō was not. "You do not divulge clan secrets" to a clan kid is much like "you do not stick your hand in a fire". As for Kagome revealing secrets, I think that's self-explanatory.
 
PSA: There will be a retcon and Sunday will be a lore update.
I can sleep well today. I feel happy and content. All is well. And now we have to deal with a merely angry, not dead, Minami.

A final note: as mentioned above, we were convinced to do this retcon by the mature arguments of a handful of people. The griefing and insults that we got from what seemed like the majority of respondents strongly motivated us to stand firm. We set that aside, but I hope that the griefers will learn the lesson "Rudeness very nearly caused me to not get what I want" instead of "Yay! If I complain enough I can get what I want!"
By a miracle, delivered by the few truly rational people in this thread (and of course our amazing QMs) we are in a slightly better situation!
I feel kinda guilty of participating in the griefing. Maybe nothing directly at QMs, but melodrama, Armageddon initiatives and suggestions for suicide plans are as passive aggressive as you can get, so sorry for that. :oops:
 
Info: History and OPSEC
Basic Ninja OPSEC

Some of this is backstory that has not had cause to come up before this, but it should illustrate the importance of the OPSEC rules:

The Warring States period was several hundred years of war with few to no actual states involved. "Hill daimyos", meaning small freeholding lords (sometimes ninja, sometimes not) who wanted to carve out and protect a territory, would set up and usually be knocked down pretty quickly. The modern states that you see on the map have been there for a while, but for most of their existence they were more a name than a reality.

During this period, ninja organized into clans for mutual protection. Clanless ninja were generally either outcasts from a clan or the children of outcasts. They were contemptible, untrustworthy, and probably cowards -- they were usually killed on sight.

The oldest ninja village (Leaf) is only ~70 years old. There are probably living people who grew up during the Warring States period. Clans have been the dominant paradigm for hundreds of years and that is only slowly changing. Leaf and the other villages should be looked at as something like the United States: a group of sovereign entities (the clans) who have agreed to federate and are mostly but not entirely subordinate to a federal government (the Kage). It's been working out pretty well and everyone is mostly onboard with it, but there's always tension and the possibility of one clan splintering away from the village is taken seriously. Clanless ninja are accepted into Leaf and possibly into other villages (you don't know) but that is a major social innovation and the clanless are still subtly discriminated against. Ninja who go missing in this day and age are reviled. You know of no other case of missing-nin being rehabilitated; what Jiraiya and Nara did is, so far as you are aware, unprecedented.

Ninja are special operations warriors and assassins. Because of all this, most ninja are paranoid and heavily PTSD. Every time two ninja come together, even the best of friends, there is an ingrained sense of "if I had to kill him, how would I do it?"

In this environment:

  1. Everyone has at least one ace up their sleeve that they don't talk about.
  2. When you have to show a technique, or when you choose to show one in order to build your rep, you keep the details secret. Everyone knows that Naruto has the Multiple Shadow Clone, but no one knows what tricks he's come up with to munchkin it. Everyone knows that Gaara controls sand, but no one knows exactly what he can do with it. It was not an accident that the battle between Naruto and Gaara at the Chūnin Exams was obscured by dust and smoke.
  3. Reputation is critically important to a ninja, and sometimes that means bending the above rules. Having a big rep is how you get high-paying jobs, desirable assignments, and status within the ninja world. "Keiko is the Pangolin summoner" is an example of this: she revealed it to those ninja in Sarubetsu so clearly she's okay with it being talked about, but you wouldn't disclose the details of how often she can summon and exactly what. Likewise "Akane has a secret jutsu that makes her invulnerable" is a brag with no details, although it's pushing the line and Noburi probably shouldn't have said it.
  4. Just as every individual has secret techniques, every clan has secret techniques and secret knowledge. The first rule of clan secrets is that you don't talk about clan secrets. This is literally codified in village law, and if the Hokage attempted to ferret out clan secrets it would almost certainly lead to (at best) that clan leaving Leaf or (at worst) civil war. In general, clans do not reveal their secret techniques even to their own members until said members are old enough to keep them secret.
  5. "We can drain through mist" is a secret technique of the Wakahisa clan. The fact that Noburi shared it with you is an example of his incredible trust in you. (As well as his ego, but that's another story.)
  6. You were never taught the secret techniques of the Kurosawa clan because you were forced to go missing before you were old enough. To say that differently: clan secrets are so important that even after 'divorcing' her clan Hana did not immediately teach those secrets to you. You can only speculate on why she wasn't killed when she was thrown out -- probably it had something to do with personal affection and something to do with the rule shared by all ninja villages that "ninja from our village don't kill ninja from our village."

In Chapter 127 you did not come right out and say the words "Oh, by the way, Minami, you should probably know that Noburi can drain through mist." You made the fact abundantly clear with the plans that you proposed, to the point where any reasonably smart person could figure it out. Furthermore, the plan made clear that you were discussing it with the entire team as well as Minami, without any mention of discussing it with the others first. In short: you blurted it out before anyone could stop you. Hence why the rest of the team was so angry.


EDIT: Removed a snip about sending scrubs after jōnin. It was a momentary thought that I let onto the page, not part of the group-approved worldbuilding, and it made no sense.
 
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We are convinced by good arguments, admit to making a mistake, and go to the trouble of unwinding it...and your response is ragequitting and trying to terminate the quest for everyone else? Huh.

100% facetious; wasn't even a real vote. Apologies, I thought the joke would be more transparent. I think you guys handled this pretty well, all things considered.
 
I feel kinda guilty of participating in the griefing... Armageddon initiatives... are as passive aggressive as you can get, so sorry for that. :oops:
Woah there, Armageddon Initiatives are half of why I've been actively participating in this quest for the past... I don't know... year? Ask any other regular.

100% facetious; wasn't even a real vote. Apologies, I thought the joke would be more transparent. I think you guys handled this pretty well, all things considered.
:cry: but... but... we were gonna destroy the world together :cry:
 
By the way, you guys have the new IC status quo now, and you're still in a crisis situation, albeit a much more recoverable one. I invite you to discuss and plan.
 
Incidentally, I'm planning that Sunday's update will be in essay format and focused on history / politics / economics, something like that. I already have some ideas but if there are particular things people would like to see, feel free to suggest them. No promises on if they'll be executed, but suggestions are welcome.
 
Woah there, Armageddon Initiatives are half of why I've been actively participating in this quest for the past... I don't know... year? Ask any other regular.
I mean, it's certainly a viable route. But doing that when there's this whole crisis and everyone votes for suicide just makes it a "Action Plan: Suicide, but with a BOOM!".
My very intention was that- explode yourself and others for the heck of it. Nothing truly apocalyptic, like it could be with longer play in mind.
 
Incidentally, I'm planning that Sunday's update will be in essay format and focused on history / politics / economics, something like that. I already have some ideas but if there are particular things people would like to see, feel free to suggest them. No promises on if they'll be executed, but suggestions are welcome.
I kinda want to know about the knowledge of the world and stars. I feel like the moon was referenced in MfD, but that could just be a holdover from canon...

I mean, generally, I'm assuming that the universe works similar to ours, on a cosmic scale. Galaxies, stars, planets, moons, comets, etc., are all not noticeably different than our universe's setup. But what do our characters think their world/planet(/galaxy?) is like? Do they assume the world is flat, or has astronomy progressed enough that they know it's an oblate spheroid? Is there only a short wraparound distance from the east side of the map to the west side from what we can see on the map of the EN?
 
Okay when Minami says she has no choice at the end of that update, is that an "I'll stand down" statement or an "I'm forced to kill you for the good of the village" statement? It was a bit unclear.
 
Okay when Minami says she has no choice at the end of that update, is that an "I'll stand down" statement or an "I'm forced to kill you for the good of the village" statement? It was a bit unclear.
A bit of both. She has to report this to her Kage (Jiraiya), but she also knows that, as missing-nin, we'll kill her the moment she tries this. And she's not stupid enough to think she's capable of it. And also that Jiraiya from her point of view might cover this up. And kill her in the process.

What I'd imagine ends up happening is Minami just shuts up and deals with it, we lose all credibility and trust as Minami sleeps somewhere else (far away from Kagome), and we lose a potential ally.
 
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