- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Don't forget: we're losing a potential ally who knows our secrets. What say you we kill her?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- Yes.
I wonder how angry the GMs would be if we did that. Like, they just retcon'd us killing her and now we're killing her again.
*snerk*
Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
Yeah, makes sense, especially with the opsec and clan secrets post.
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
Realization:
With this discussion between our teammates about how we fucked up with opsec with Minami, there's a nonzero chance she'll actually realize how sincere about things Hazo is.
With this discussion between our teammates about how we fucked up with opsec with Minami, there's a nonzero chance she'll actually realize how sincere about things Hazo is.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
The trick, of course, is to make it look like an accident.
Edit: better yet, have her death *actually* be an accident. Rampaging sky squid anyone?
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Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
Now that I think of it.
If I, personally, were in Minami's position, I'd try to ingratiate myself to Hazo as much as possible. Because he will reveal every clan secret ever, which I can just bring back to my clan.
If I, personally, were in Minami's position, I'd try to ingratiate myself to Hazo as much as possible. Because he will reveal every clan secret ever, which I can just bring back to my clan.
- Location
- Yes.
Uh, if I were in Minami's position I'd try very very hard to convince Keiko and Noburi that I'm not going to do these things so they help keep Kagome from blowing us up.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
The two most recent threadmarks deal heavily with the way missing-nin are perceived by clan ninja and the formation of the villages in general. In light of that, I feel like the Sannin in general and Orochimaru in particular could be a fitting subject, especially if written though the lens of one of the Leaf clans who would have an interesting perspective on the matter.
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
Right! And then I'd do it sneaky-like! Play disinterest, aloofness. Just being in Hazo's vicinity will be a goldmine of info.
- Location
- Yes.
And then Kagome goes boomsplat on our ass.
I think there's a point here that deserves some examination.
Clanless ninja are not only accepted into Leaf, they are created by Leaf and other villages through the Academy system. See Akane... and for that matter, Jiraiya! These "clanless" ninja are a new breed who have no loyalty to their individual clans, but only to their village. In essence their villages are their clans. And as pointed out, Hazou was not really raised as a clan ninja.
From Hazou's point of view, his village = where he owes his ultimate loyalty and secrets. On an instinctual level I mean, not counting how the past year may have disillusioned him. So naturally now that he's joined up with a new village he figures it's everyone's job to use their abilities to the fullest for the village. He's been told about 'clan secrets', but he doesn't really feel it in his gut any more than Akane would.
[] Proto-Action Plan: Explain what I just said to the entire team as an explanation for Hazou's actions
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
I actually... really like that.
Hazō strip every weapon and seals he has on his body. Every single clothing, down to his boxer if he has to. He put his neck against Minami's kunai.
He also make sure that Kagome-sensei is constrained from doing anything stupid. And he shouts down anybody from intervening.
Then he talk to her, one on one.
He also make sure that Kagome-sensei is constrained from doing anything stupid. And he shouts down anybody from intervening.
Then he talk to her, one on one.
- Location
- Cave
my full support to you and wherever this protoplan goes.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
I... uh... don't think stripping is the way to go here?
I have a few ideas about how to handle this situation.
One of the most important ones in regards to Minami is that Hazou does a dogeza at some point and apologize as sincerely as possible for his carelessness and putting her in danger. I would also like him to tell Minami more about himself in order to humanize himself - things about his past like how he grew up outside his clan, why the group became missing-nin, maybe Team Uplift's goals, etc. We also need to explain Kagome's... Kagome-ness.
We will also need to extract a promise from her to not tell anyone the clan secret she has heard from us, and hopefully not to telling her clan about this transgression. We emphasize that we think that she is a good and honorable person, and that we are certain she will keep her word. In exchange Hazou needs to promise a couple favors to Minami - a personal one (for his personal fuckup), and one that's more political in nature that is a favor from our clan to hers (for our clan's fuckup). The former could be something like a promise to supply her with explosive tags free of charge for as long as we live, or something else along those lines, but she gets to pick (having some suggestions would be welcome). The latter is very valuable, and would help her own position in her own clan given that having the Hokage's clan, or even just Jiraiya's clan, owe them a favor would be valuable currency.
We need to apologize to our team for our failure as well, especially Noburi. I think we're going to be doing his and Minami's chores for the rest of this trip, and I think Noburi is entitled to some amount of time of Hazou being his personal butler as well.
As long as we're in her prism she can probably kill us with ease. Disarming might not be a bad idea though, but we'd need to tell her we're doing so first to avoid any misunderstandings.
One of the most important ones in regards to Minami is that Hazou does a dogeza at some point and apologize as sincerely as possible for his carelessness and putting her in danger. I would also like him to tell Minami more about himself in order to humanize himself - things about his past like how he grew up outside his clan, why the group became missing-nin, maybe Team Uplift's goals, etc. We also need to explain Kagome's... Kagome-ness.
We will also need to extract a promise from her to not tell anyone the clan secret she has heard from us, and hopefully not to telling her clan about this transgression. We emphasize that we think that she is a good and honorable person, and that we are certain she will keep her word. In exchange Hazou needs to promise a couple favors to Minami - a personal one (for his personal fuckup), and one that's more political in nature that is a favor from our clan to hers (for our clan's fuckup). The former could be something like a promise to supply her with explosive tags free of charge for as long as we live, or something else along those lines, but she gets to pick (having some suggestions would be welcome). The latter is very valuable, and would help her own position in her own clan given that having the Hokage's clan, or even just Jiraiya's clan, owe them a favor would be valuable currency.
We need to apologize to our team for our failure as well, especially Noburi. I think we're going to be doing his and Minami's chores for the rest of this trip, and I think Noburi is entitled to some amount of time of Hazou being his personal butler as well.
As long as we're in her prism she can probably kill us with ease. Disarming might not be a bad idea though, but we'd need to tell her we're doing so first to avoid any misunderstandings.
- Location
- Yes.
Except it's been made abundantly clear from previous updates that we do understand the concept of clan secrets. Remember the library outburst? We realized the OPSEC breach and apologized to the team for it, and had a discussion after we got the boot.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Yeah, that's a good framework for 'why I messed up'. It's not Hazou saying he didn't mess up, or that his mistake doesn't have consequences, but it's an answer to the question 'why would you do something so stupid?' and one that will open the path to forgiveness.
Of course, that assumes we live to explain ourselves. Minami might be about to gut us if we don't do something. To make the situation trickier, she's defaulted to a closed minded attitude in which we are Evil and The Enemy. She's expecting a 'no don't do this' and a 'we're not evil, I swear' so we need something outside of that context to say that hits upon a flaw in the 'Evil and The Enemy' attitude. Perhaps something to do with the game session, and why would we invite her to join us if we were evil?
I think the keyword is 'instinctual'. Hazou understands it just fine, but that doesn't mean he'll always be acting with that knowledge in mind.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Huh, I'm not sure what Minami is thinking but I'm reasonably confident that it's not good for us. There's a lot of things she could be preparing to do.
- Summary judgement on Kagome possibly including trying to kill him.
- Possible clan orders to the effect of "We want Jiraiya's position to weaken, see if you can't catch them doing something that we can use against him." (This is almost certainly true anyway)
- Possible clan orders to the effect of "We want Jiraiya's position to weaken, if the opportunity arises to stage a regrettable incident, take it."
Basically, my priority list here:
- Keep all the kids on the team alive.
- Keep Kagome alive.
- Keep Minami alive.
- Defuse immediate tensions.
- Get Kagome to calm the fuck down, and generally not kill Minami when we aren't looking.
- See if there is some sort of agreement we can reach to keep Minami from telling people. Honestly, Having Kagome blow up and and reveal how important a secret it is may be more problematic than Minami knowing the secret.
- Location
- Yes.
Which is why I, as Noburi/Keiko/Kagome/etc., wouldn't buy this as a justifiable excuse for why Hazou was so monumentally stupid.
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
Is Minami their personal or family name?
- Location
- Yes.
Minami is the clan name, Nikkō is her personal name.
Rihaku
The Internet
My take on an explanation:
Hazou & Co are traveling through several reasonably dangerous areas performing odd-job missions any one of which could escalate into a serious fight. They have genin-ish tier combat capabilities and Minami is one of their only all-rounder chunin assets. A split second of hesitation on "should I or should I not reveal this technique to my presumptive ally" could easily result in death. Given these circumstances, leaving out such a crucial ability as Noburi's Mist draining seems extremely optimistic. How would the team actually know that the thugs were mortals and not ninja in disguise, for example? It does not make sense to use anything less than absolute force when dealing with unknown enemies, unless one has Orochimaru-tier defensive capabilities.
A series of 10 missions with 95% survival rate is just as dangerous, if not more so (due to complacency / fatigue) than 1 ~50% Arikada-tier mission.
The long-term is important. But to get to the long-term, you have to survive the short term. Presumably Leaf needs these messages delivered safely and effiicently. The damage to Leaf from Hazou & Co being disappeared via ambush or unforeseen circumstance is massive from both a logistical and informational standpoint, to say nothing of their skywalkers.
If Jiraiya pulls this off, they are clan of the Hokage. Whatever concessions Minami would extract in exchange for her silence would be miniscule next to the influence gained. In that light, the absolute highest priority should be survival now, followed by reasonable execution of their mission. The maximal chance of 'preventing skywalkers from falling into enemy hands' alone would justify the disclosure if it made the team even 5% more effective overall.
Perhaps Hazou did not explicitly think these things, but it seems possible that they were present in his general 'intention' in how he acted. I do feel that the way Hazou's clan members acted evinced a confidence in their safety that bordered on outright arrogance, given how paranoid about physical safety they were just two months ago. They are way too concerned about the medium-long term and not enough on short-term survival. This is still an elemental nations on the brink of war with random squads of S-class missing-nin running around unchecked. Have the party members forgotten that a single roll against a jounin will instantly TPK the entire party?
---
Somewhat unrelated, but thinking on it further, I do not see how it is realistically possible for ninja to go on an even "kind of dangerous" mission together without revealing more-or-less their full capabilities to their teammates. They would be massively outcompeted by ninja who did trust their teammates, leading to a noticeable drop in survival rate. If it changes survival rate from even 99% to 97%, that would lead to a huge attrition difference over time.
Example: Most ninja lack super-divinatory capabilities. Faced with a glimpse of an enemy of unknown level, do you a) Hold back for fear of exposing your secrets to your teammates, or b) Unleash the most powerful attack you can feasibly muster?
Any team that adopts a 'temporary member' without full disclosure become markedly less effective than their composite ninja ranks would suggest, and the Mori and Nara would have noticed this. It seems much simpler and safer for even temporary team members to reveal their full-spectrum capabilities to each other upon the acceptance of any remotely dangerous mission, thus ensuring mutual reciprocal blackmail (if they even need to) without compromising their ability to actually win fights. Anyway, just my two cents.
Hazou & Co are traveling through several reasonably dangerous areas performing odd-job missions any one of which could escalate into a serious fight. They have genin-ish tier combat capabilities and Minami is one of their only all-rounder chunin assets. A split second of hesitation on "should I or should I not reveal this technique to my presumptive ally" could easily result in death. Given these circumstances, leaving out such a crucial ability as Noburi's Mist draining seems extremely optimistic. How would the team actually know that the thugs were mortals and not ninja in disguise, for example? It does not make sense to use anything less than absolute force when dealing with unknown enemies, unless one has Orochimaru-tier defensive capabilities.
A series of 10 missions with 95% survival rate is just as dangerous, if not more so (due to complacency / fatigue) than 1 ~50% Arikada-tier mission.
The long-term is important. But to get to the long-term, you have to survive the short term. Presumably Leaf needs these messages delivered safely and effiicently. The damage to Leaf from Hazou & Co being disappeared via ambush or unforeseen circumstance is massive from both a logistical and informational standpoint, to say nothing of their skywalkers.
If Jiraiya pulls this off, they are clan of the Hokage. Whatever concessions Minami would extract in exchange for her silence would be miniscule next to the influence gained. In that light, the absolute highest priority should be survival now, followed by reasonable execution of their mission. The maximal chance of 'preventing skywalkers from falling into enemy hands' alone would justify the disclosure if it made the team even 5% more effective overall.
Perhaps Hazou did not explicitly think these things, but it seems possible that they were present in his general 'intention' in how he acted. I do feel that the way Hazou's clan members acted evinced a confidence in their safety that bordered on outright arrogance, given how paranoid about physical safety they were just two months ago. They are way too concerned about the medium-long term and not enough on short-term survival. This is still an elemental nations on the brink of war with random squads of S-class missing-nin running around unchecked. Have the party members forgotten that a single roll against a jounin will instantly TPK the entire party?
---
Somewhat unrelated, but thinking on it further, I do not see how it is realistically possible for ninja to go on an even "kind of dangerous" mission together without revealing more-or-less their full capabilities to their teammates. They would be massively outcompeted by ninja who did trust their teammates, leading to a noticeable drop in survival rate. If it changes survival rate from even 99% to 97%, that would lead to a huge attrition difference over time.
Example: Most ninja lack super-divinatory capabilities. Faced with a glimpse of an enemy of unknown level, do you a) Hold back for fear of exposing your secrets to your teammates, or b) Unleash the most powerful attack you can feasibly muster?
Any team that adopts a 'temporary member' without full disclosure become markedly less effective than their composite ninja ranks would suggest, and the Mori and Nara would have noticed this. It seems much simpler and safer for even temporary team members to reveal their full-spectrum capabilities to each other upon the acceptance of any remotely dangerous mission, thus ensuring mutual reciprocal blackmail (if they even need to) without compromising their ability to actually win fights. Anyway, just my two cents.
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"Minami, please stop inflaming the situation. Once nobody is about to die, we can discuss where things will go from here."
"Okay, Keiko, Noburi, Kagome, I understand on an intellectual level that this is the sort of info leak that a clan would usually kill over. I wasn't raised in a clan, and it feels like now that Leaf has taken us in our loyalty is to it, rather than to a clan that I haven't even been part of for a month."
"Noburi, I am deeply sorry for carelessly revealing your secret. I just- I just wanted to do this mission right damnit! I wanted to get Minami comfortable with this team and us comfortable with her so that when the chips are down and our backs are to the wall, we'll be able to rely on her and she'll be able to rely on us! Why does that have to be so godsdamned hard? This right here, this paranoia, this mistrust, it's everything wrong with the Elemental Nations in miniature. If we're going to be like this, then what was the damn point in going to Leaf? What was the point in leaving Mist? What's the point in me not strapping a pair of skywalkers to my feet, picking a direction and just running until they give out?"
"I- I thought things were going to be better damnit."
"I'm going to sleep. If you all decide to kill each other, please be considerate enough to deal with me to. I don't want to wake up to that shit."
"Okay, Keiko, Noburi, Kagome, I understand on an intellectual level that this is the sort of info leak that a clan would usually kill over. I wasn't raised in a clan, and it feels like now that Leaf has taken us in our loyalty is to it, rather than to a clan that I haven't even been part of for a month."
"Noburi, I am deeply sorry for carelessly revealing your secret. I just- I just wanted to do this mission right damnit! I wanted to get Minami comfortable with this team and us comfortable with her so that when the chips are down and our backs are to the wall, we'll be able to rely on her and she'll be able to rely on us! Why does that have to be so godsdamned hard? This right here, this paranoia, this mistrust, it's everything wrong with the Elemental Nations in miniature. If we're going to be like this, then what was the damn point in going to Leaf? What was the point in leaving Mist? What's the point in me not strapping a pair of skywalkers to my feet, picking a direction and just running until they give out?"
"I- I thought things were going to be better damnit."
"I'm going to sleep. If you all decide to kill each other, please be considerate enough to deal with me to. I don't want to wake up to that shit."
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