Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

[redzonejoe]

For the record, I think that using bastardized versions of our own swears in Narutoverse is really, really lame.

When i read 'sage damnit' I cringe. Hard.

Dumbutt, on the other hand, is A-okay!

 

[ClawClawBite]

Given that level of opsec, how do leaf ninjas communicate about important tactical abilities? Assignments and support functions are going to depend on capacities of more that good close range fighter. That is not to say information is free flowing, but there needs to be methods and standards past 'do not ever do so'.

If we don't know about this, we may want to ask.

 

[thamuzz]

For the record, I think that using bastardized versions of our own swears in Narutoverse is really, really lame.

When i read 'sage damnit' I cringe. Hard.

Dumbutt, on the other hand, is A-okay!

Click to shrink...

Fair enough.

At the moment, I actually feel that trying to calmly, reasonably and rationally defuse the situation might be counterproductive, particularly when dealing with Minami. An honest display of emotion might be enough to get people to stop and take stock of the situation.

 

[Velorien]

For the record, I think that using bastardized versions of our own swears in Narutoverse is really, really lame.

When i read 'sage damnit' I cringe. Hard.

Dumbutt, on the other hand, is A-okay!

Click to shrink...

I think part of the issue there is that the Narutoverse is pretty areligious. Kishimoto has a certain unreflexive acceptance of Japanese syncretism in his head (e.g. one of the Wood Element techniques refers to a real-world Buddhist sage by name, and people follow cultural tropes that stem from religion but are now universal in Japanese society), but overall we don't see any explicit practice of religion outside filler. That makes expressions like "God damn it" actually more jarring to me.

Edit:

Given that level of opsec, how do leaf ninjas communicate about important tactical abilities? Assignments and support functions are going to depend on capacities of more that good close range fighter. That is not to say information is free flowing, but there needs to be methods and standards past 'do not ever do so'.

If we don't know about this, we may want to ask.

Click to shrink...

The distinction must be made between "trump cards" and secret techniques, and personal abilities which can be shared with the public. The Akimichi make no attempt to hide their size-changing abilities (not that they very well could), but it's safe to say they're a lot more reticent about their super soldier pills.

 

[thamuzz]

I think part of the issue there is that the Narutoverse is pretty areligious. Kishimoto has a certain unreflexive acceptance of Japanese syncretism in his head (e.g. one of the Wood Element techniques refers to a real-world Buddhist sage by name, and people follow cultural tropes that stem from religion but are now universal in Japanese society), but overall we don't see any explicit practice of religion outside filler. That makes expressions like "God damn it" actually more jarring to me.

Click to shrink...

Lore update on the role of religion in the MfD Elemental Nations?

 

[Briefvoice]

[X] Action Plan: Deescalate, explain, deescalate

Objectives:
1. Survive
2. Deescalate the situation to where there's no imminent threat of violence
3. Apologize and explain yourself
4. Express flat-out disgust about "legitimately" killing to protect your secrets

• If it seems like Manami is about to unleash violence, seek Akane's verbal support in urging Minami to hold off and talk just a little longer.
  
• Ask for everyone allow you to speak
  • Deep breath
  • After warning/getting okay from Minami that you are about to let go, release Kagome's hands if confident he's not going to try and do anything stupid.
    
  • Not moving hands too fast, give Minami the Nara hand sign for 'you need to hear this' of palms together, hands pointing upwards, in front of heart
• Explain yourself to Minami
  • Promise her that you're going to address Kagome's actions, but you want her to understand where this team came from too.
  • Ask Noburi and Keiko, if it's okay if you could tell Minami the story of how we became missing nin. She needs to understand who we are.
    
  • Unless the others protested, tell Minami the story of the Village Hidden in the Swamp and how it came to be and how it ended. If the others didn't want to reveal too much, tell the story but in more vague terms that would make it difficult to identify it as the swamp village.
    
  • Explain you didn't set out to become missing-nin... it was more done to you, and all of a sudden you were in a situation where there didn't seem like there were other options.
  • But objectively now you've got to tell her honestly... Mist (or "our home village" if being vague) is a horrible place and Leaf seems a lot nicer. In case she wondered if it was all propaganda, it's not.
    
  • Kagome's story is his own to tell... enough of revealing comrades' secrets. But you can tell Minami that when you found him he was lost and alone after a long exile in the woods, and if he owed some penalty for leaving his home village, you think he's paid it.
  • Kagome was living on his own for literally years, justifiably afraid of everyone with only complete paranoia keeping him alive. It doesn't excuse his actions, but you're hoping it helps Minami understand.
    
  • You want to believe in the ideals of the Village Hidden in the Leaf and the Will of Fire. It seems like a beautiful thing, even if humans are always bound to fall short.
• Time to talk about Kagome's actions
  • Get mad.
    
  • Kagome, enough of this "stinkers" shit. That's the word he always uses when it's time to stop treating someone like a human being and you're sick of it.
  • Kagome calls Minami a 'dumbbutt' so he don't have to feel bad about what he tried to do. Well it was attempted murder and it was wrong.
  • Everyone on this team has done things that are wrong because we thought it was that or die. Okay. We're all ninjas, all killers, all terrible.
  • But this wasn't 'do or die'. This was trying to murder a fellow member of our new village because you thought there might be some danger from something she knew under hypothetical circumstances far in the future.
  • Fuck that. And you know what, fuck the idea that it's "legitimate" for a clan to kill an innocent bystander who did nothing wrong to protect its secrets.
  • If Kagome ever, ever, tries some shit like this again, do you know what Hazou will do?
  • He will personally drag Kagome back into the woods and live with him in exile, serving Leaf by occasionally passing back sealing research. Because I love you sensei, and if taking you away from everyone else is the only way to keep you alive I'll do it. Please don't- Hazou hates living in the woods.
• Back to Minami
  • If she needs it to feel safe in our company, Hazou will be her hostage.
  • But weird as it is to say after all this, he would rather be her comrade
• Let everyone digest and respond
  • If Minami brings up the 'Stone Cold Killer' thing,
  • feed it into the 'we had absolutely no idea what we were doing as missing nin' narrative you've been talking about. No one on the team understood anything about diplomatic neutral zones. Literally some guy in a bar hired you to steal a message, and when you tried 'suddenly jounin' and from then on you were just trying to stay alive.
  • If Minami expresses outrage about the idea of continuing without some summary punishment of Kagome, plead with her to think of him as someone who is sick, a ninja conditioned to immediate violent response to any threat after too long in constant danger. Promise her that we will deal with this further we get safely back to Leaf.
• When/if the Minami situation is no longer about to explode, explain yourself to Keiko, Noburi, and Kagome regarding revealing clan secrets.
  • Tell everyone that while you're technically a Kurosawa, your mother raised you as an exile outside the clan. You might have a bloodline, but you weren't raised as part of a clan.
  • You were always taught that your village was the most important thing and where you owed your loyalty.
    
  • So while you understand clan secrets in your head and we've talked about it... you don't really get it in your gut.
  • When you joined Leaf you figured from now on you owed it your loyalty, and you were thinking about ways to use everyone's abilities to best complete the mission, like you always do.
  • You were planning for "How do I make sure none of my friends dies today" to the exclusion of all else. You were so focused on 'make this mission a success' you didn't notice you were giving up someone else's secret in exchange for that.
    
  • The new clan barely seemed real; you weren't thinking at all about it as something whose secrets were to be protected from the village you were supposed to be loyal to now. That was a mistake.
  • Apologize deeply to all three of them, but especially Noburi. It was his right to decide what priority to place on concealing his chakra draining ability. You think there's a trade-off worth discussing in the utility of being able to freely use chakra drain versus the benefit of having it as a trump card, but he should have been the one to decide that, not you.
• If possible, resume the mission.

 

[Traiden]

Can I register my outrage that smoke cover, or in our case mist cover could not be conceived as anything else but something only Noburi can use at all. It makes me very angry as a person with a military background that we are not using the cold smoke as a method of concealment. It makes me upset because that turning water into mist using the seal we developed is the cheapest/easiest method for us to make smoke without chemicals or fire or anything other than a puddle on the ground and thus the one we could conceivably have the most of.

 

[Velorien]

Kagome calls Minami a 'stinker' so he don't have to feel bad about what he tried to do. Well it was attempted murder and it was wrong.

Click to shrink...

As a point of order, Kagome doesn't use that word in relation to Minami. She's been "Dumbbutt" throughout.

 

[Briefvoice]

As a point of order, Kagome doesn't use that word in relation to Minami. She's been "Dumbbutt" throughout.

Click to shrink...

On the one hand I could edit it, but on the other hand it's the sort of mistake that real people are always making when they remember conversations and it might add a much-needed note of levity if Kagome corrects him. Because the important part is calling Kagome out on dehumanizing people with his stupid terms and nicknames.

 

[thamuzz]

Clear-communication no jutsu.

Click to shrink...

This is a mistake. Minami does not respond well to CCnJ. In fact, IIRC, wasn't her Nara boyfriend's rationality one of the reasons they didn't work?
We need an appeal to emotion, and I think the most effective way to approach that would be an honest display of emotions ourselves.

I don't really object to the broad strokes that follow, but I think the CCnJ will alienate her.

 

[Traiden]

[X] Action Plan: Deescalate, explain, deescalate

 

[Briefvoice]

This is a mistake. Minami does not respond well to CCnJ. In fact, IIRC, wasn't her Nara boyfriend's rationality one of the reasons they didn't work?
We need an appeal to emotion, and I think the most effective way to approach that would be an honest display of emotions ourselves.

Click to shrink...

That's the part where Hazou is talking to the rest of the team and Minami is just listening in to judge them. He jumps much more into raw emotional appeal when explaining to Minami why they were all missing nin in the first place.

 

[Dissonance]

Minami is the clan name, Nikkō is her personal name.

Click to shrink...

So I looked through the old posts but got sidetracked and lost my way through the stacks. But my thought was that Minami is a small clan, isn't it? Wouldn't they want to suck up to get favours from clan Inouya?

"And you promised to tell me how they make the illuminating ink."

Click to shrink...

Also, I found that.

[x] Research: A different kind of invisible ink.
(Do this when everyone's not going to kill each other.)
Find a way to make ink that un-illuminates, or eats all light? Maybe ink that's the color of the paper it's laid on, chameleon-style? Maybe just a generic same-color-as-paper ink?
Something for seal obfuscation. This isn't unpossible.

 

[Velorien]

So I looked through the old posts but got sidetracked and lost my way through the stacks. But my thought was that Minami is a small clan, isn't it? Wouldn't they want to suck up to get favours from clan Inouya?

Also, I found that.

[x] Research: A different kind of invisible ink.
(Do this when everyone's not going to kill each other.)
Find a way to make ink that un-illuminates, or eats all light? Maybe ink that's the color of the paper it's laid on, chameleon-style? Maybe just a generic same-color-as-paper ink?
Something for seal obfuscation. This isn't unpossible.

Click to shrink...

That's illuminating ink in the manuscript sense of illumination, i.e. doing those pretty capital letters that start passages in medieval books and such.

 

[Dissonance]

That's illuminating ink in the manuscript sense of illumination, i.e. doing those pretty capital letters that start passages in medieval books and such.

Click to shrink...

You hear that folks? That's the sound of hopes and dreams being crushed.

Also, TIL.

 

[thamuzz]

That's the part where Hazou is talking to the rest of the team and Minami is just listening in to judge them. He jumps much more into raw emotional appeal when explaining to Minami why they were all missing nin in the first place.

Click to shrink...

To clarify: I think leading with CCnJ will negatively prejudice her against the rest of what we have to say.
Emotional display followed by CCnJ once we've got it out of our system would work better.
Further clarification: Using the Nara sign might or might not be sufficient to shock her into a state where she's willing to listen. I'm currently leaning towards it be insufficient, but I'm open to being convinced.

 

[Aodyssey]

@eaglejarl @others players

When you says Hazo will disregard partial or full plans, do you means "Hazo in update will do so", which is the impression I got, or "We will tell you the plan is incompatible with reality"?

CCnJ: Does the second option puts too much strain on you QMs? Is it in opposition to the simulationistic style of play you wishes to promote, where the players get the rewards and consequences based on their performances/interaction with the world?

 

[Briefvoice]

To clarify: I think leading with CCnJ will negatively prejudice her against the rest of what we have to say.
Emotional display followed by CCnJ once we've got it out of our system would work better.
Further clarification: Using the Nara sign might or might not be sufficient to shock her into a state where she's willing to listen. I'm currently leaning towards it be insufficient, but I'm open to being convinced.

Click to shrink...

Fine, I'll delete it. I basically just think of it as random words meaning, "Listen to what I'm trying to say," anyway.

 

[Velorien]

@eaglejarl @others players

When you says Hazo will disregard partial or full plans, do you means "Hazo in update will do so", which is the impression I got, or "We will tell you the plan is incompatible with reality"?

Click to shrink...

The former. If the plan makes no sense to Hazō the character based on his common sense/ninja knowledge etc., he will disregard it. That may or may not result in a very short update.

Edit: In terms of the latter, we simply don't have the time or energy to be able to keep up with the plan-making process and critique plans before they're finalised. So we have to end up going with the winning plan, which may then need to be abandoned IC.

 

[thamuzz]

Fine, I'll delete it. I basically just think of it as random words meaning, "Listen to what I'm trying to say," anyway.

Click to shrink...

Ah. To me it means invoking a highly formalized and comprehensive speech pattern meant to be as unambiguous about its meaning and emotional context as possible.

Hazou shouting "clear communication no jutsu" and then barely keeping himself under control while he delivers the rest would work as a display of emotion I guess.
What we don't want is to look like we're entirely in control of ourselves/the situation. Our bloodline might be a hinderance in this.
We should develop a "I'm barely keeping it together" face.

 

[edqu]

We probably want to stop Minami from trying to kill us in the first few seconds of the next update. I think something along the lines of:
- "You are about to kill every member of the Hokage's Clan."
- "Follow the Hokage's orders. If you kill us, you will fail this mission, and have killed your teammates."

Or some variation of the above. Appealing to chain of command sounds like a good idea.

Also, to heck with Kagome. I'd prefer Minami alive over him. Leaf has it's own sealmasters, and he's likely to keep causing trouble for years.

 

[Kiba]

Man. I am so stressed out.

@Velorien @eaglejarl @OliWhail

I am very pleased by the retcon and the new changes you implemented, but the quest and stress generation isn't good for my health. So, I am still going to leave the quest.

If that should tell you anything, I still strongly believe that you guys will hold to your words and will hold the players responsible for their fuckup. If the players fail, Hazō will die.

I want to also reiterate that this quest is the best on the internet, and I want to give my regards and good luck to everyone playing. You guys are going to need it.

 

[Aodyssey]

The former. If the plan makes no sense to Hazō the character based on his common sense/ninja knowledge etc., he will disregard it. That may or may not result in a very short update.

Click to shrink...

Can we have a reason or begins discussion on the topic? MfD is unique in many ways and collaboration for the sake of information clarity is something I feel this thread promotes.

Edit: In terms of the latter, we simply don't have the time or energy to be able to keep up with the plan-making process and critique plans before they're finalised. So we have to end up going with the winning plan, which may then need to be abandoned IC.

Click to shrink...

I see the edit. I still held the opinion that a slowed update pacing would be better for QMs and the quest's health, but I'll defer to your experiences. I'll reiterate that once it's been determined that the plan in question should be abandoned, it should be done so OOC rather than IC, even if this ends up forcing a revote.

 

[Briefvoice]

A couple of comments:

1. I think that with the Misterators, Noburi should seriously reconsider that status of his chakra drain as 'hidden trump card' and whether it should be moved to 'reliable technique used regularly'. Part of the reason for making it a trump card before was that it could only be deployed under very specialized circumstances anyway. Now there it can be used any time he has a chance to prepare the battleground by creating a real mist. That shifts the balance considerably because circumstances where it would be useful come up much more frequently. However that would certainly his call not ours, so he's justifiably mad at Hazou deciding it unilaterally.

2. I don't think Hazou, Keiko, and Noburi have ever really come to terms with the fact that Inoue-sensei was one of the masterminds behind Hidden Swamp. Yes she saved them, but she also made them into missing-nin in the first place. It was hard to be angry at her when they were all totally dependent on her.

 

[Dissonance]

2. I don't think Hazou, Keiko, and Noburi have ever really come to terms with the fact that Inoue-sensei was one of the masterminds behind Hidden Swamp. Yes she saved them, but she also made them into missing-nin in the first place. It was hard to be angry at her when they were all totally dependent on her.

Click to shrink...

Mari told Hazo alone. I don't think we told anyone else.