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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Sampatrick said:
How does this actually work in a combat situation? It seems like it will be very difficult to actually determine who is inside the cube and who is not without an extremely detailed combat map. This is definitely the type of technique that will make evaluating combat situations a lot more difficult for you if we end up going into it. It also seems like it's going to either be unusable or completely broken with very little in between; the chakra investment can become gargantuan, but the bonuses are also gargantuan. It's either going to be a crippling expense, or trivialize combat because the bonuses are so high.
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I think for each range you could break it down into three categories:
  • A cube so small you can't stay in it and have freedom of movement.
  • A cube large enough to let you move and fight freely, but which an enemy could force you out of without outright changing range.
  • A cube large enough that you're both in it unless you change range.
You could spitball the rough cube sizes needed for each category of each range (theoretically this distinction extends out to a medium-range cube or a long-range cube if you're that crazy), but the real questions are what happens at the first two categories.

What comes to mind for me is that if the cube is cramped for the range you have to roll to stay in, and if the cube is in the middle category you don't automatically roll to stay in but the enemy can force you to roll if they're aware of what you're doing. I get the feeling that there ought to be penalties attached to some of these rolls but can't pin down the specifics, especially given that you already get a TacMov bonus from the technique. The last thing I can think of is that if you do get forced out of the cube you should be able to make a similar roll to get back in, though it would be harder without the buffs from the cube.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I think for each range you could break it down into three categories:
  • A cube so small you can't stay in it and have freedom of movement.
  • A cube large enough to let you move and fight freely, but which an enemy could force you out of without outright changing range.
  • A cube large enough that you're both in it unless you change range.
You could spitball the rough cube sizes needed for each category of each range (theoretically this distinction extends out to a medium-range cube or a long-range cube if you're that crazy), but the real questions are what happens at the first two categories.

What comes to mind for me is that if the cube is cramped for the range you have to roll to stay in, and if the cube is in the middle category you don't automatically roll to stay in but the enemy can force you to roll if they're aware of what you're doing. I get the feeling that there ought to be penalties attached to some of these rolls but can't pin down the specifics, especially given that you already get a TacMov bonus from the technique. The last thing I can think of is that if you do get forced out of the cube you should be able to make a similar roll to get back in, though it would be harder without the buffs from the cube.
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Getting back in doesn't cause you to regain the bonuses. If you get forced out, it's better to end the technique and set it up again.
 
Oh shit. Something I just realized about that technique. If we have Noburi learn it, he can use it to boost everyon's initiative on the first round. ...also it applies to clones.
 
MadScientist said:
So at lv 30 (Res 8, Sta 15) we create a 10m cube of +30 TM/Combat to user, +15 TM/Combat to allies, requiring combat action cast, quick action + 90CP sustain.
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(10 * 30) 300CP to cast it and then another 300CP each turn that you choose to maintain it.

Cariyaga said:
Oh shit. Something I just realized about that technique. If we have Noburi learn it, he can use it to boost everyon's initiative on the first round. ...also it applies to clones.
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It doesn't affect initiative on the round that it goes into effect. As to clones, good point that we hadn't considered. The idea was that it was similar to chakra boost that was paid by an outside source, which would tend to eliminate clones, but we hadn't actually said that.

Veedrac said:
I suggest disallowing multiple people stacking this jutsu, which at first glance seems broken.
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Truly excellent point, thank you. So mote it be.
 
eaglejarl said:
(10 * 30) 300CP to cast it and then another 300CP each turn that you choose to maintain it.



It doesn't affect initiative on the round that it goes into effect. As to clones, good point that we hadn't considered. The idea was that it was similar to chakra boost that was paid by an outside source, which would tend to eliminate clones, but we hadn't actually said that.


Truly excellent point, thank you. So mote it be.
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Still useful for clones for Noburi, at least, which is good: He can use it to 'boost' their Tac Move to improve the "7 Clones use Syrup Trap" volley attack.
 
Assumptions: One clone may fit per meter-area, with room for at least three layers of them to effectively fire Syrup Trap. The firing line goes with 3 on the front row, two on the second, and one on the third. Noburi has Water Clone/Syrup Trap leveled to 24. He has level 16 Defend the Log.

Turn 1: Noburi uses a move-equivalent action to throw down a rod with air dome seals on it, both minor actions to activate the air dome, and, then uses Defend the Log technique at 3 meters area, 16 effect for a total of 48 chakra. (I assume it doesn't require a minor action the round it's activated)

His enemy responds with appropriatie caution to unknown seals being activated because they're not a fucking idiot, and throws a weapon at it before bouncing off in another direction in case of ill effects. The weapon is thrown hard enough to shatter the airdome but does not damage him inside.

Turn 2: Noburi, with his Defend the Log-boosted initiative, summons 6 Water Clones with sufficient chakra to boost Syrup Trap/Tac Move (in this case, it costs 20 + 10 (boost tac move) + 10 (boost Syrup Trap) + 20 (cast syrup Trap) for a total of 60 chakra per clone, or a total of 360 in total) with his Combat Action inside of the area of Defend the Log, in a wedge formation.

They all fire off Syrup Trap, each rolling 8 (Syrup Trap) + 8 (Tac Move) + 4 (total boost) + 8 (Defend the Log) = 28 * 6 dice, before any situational modifiers for having a volley of 6 Syrup Traps.

e: In conclusion, less than effective at low levels. Let's try higher levels, shall we?

At 33 Tac Move, Syrup Trap, and Water Clone, and level 24 Defend the Log:

Again, 6 clones. This time they need more chakra, though: 20 + 20 base, 10 for boosting level 11 Tac Move, 15 for boosting level 11 Syrup Trap, so 30 more chakra cost, or 390. Defend the Log costs 24 * 3, or 72 chakra.

Instead, the Clones roll 11 + 11 + 2 + 3 + 12 dice, or 39 dice before adjustment for number of Syrup Traps.

On the other hand... if he rolled Syrup Trap himself, he could roll 33+33+11+8+24, or 109 dice.

In conclusion, Clone army is a trap, unless the bonus for Syrup Trap Volleys is significantly higher than I think. If it gave Multicombat bonus for the Clones as if they were a combatant of the total dice rolled, it would certainly be closer to effective, though.
 
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Even at 300, Noburi can still sustain lv30 DtL for two rounds right now. And still have enough chakra to cast (and +6 boost once) WW, allowing him to reach 70d100 for one turn (even if he then has almost no chakra remaining).
 
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I think it's actually impossible to invest points into Defend the Log without having some idea of what happens if you actually use it in combat. I thought the combat system was based around three range tiers (honestly this is probably wrong but finding detailed information on how combat works is surprisingly difficult) and within that system, Defend the Log doesn't actually have any clear cut effect.

Also, keep in mind that the best way to abuse Defend the Log is probably going to be involve Noburi getting close to Hazou or Akane and then buffing the shit out of them so they crush their opponent in combat. The scaling for large cubes of DtL is garbage so just make a smaller cube that boosts for a ton.
 
Sampatrick said:
I think it's actually impossible to invest points into Defend the Log without having some idea of what happens if you actually use it in combat. I thought the combat system was based around three range tiers (honestly this is probably wrong but finding detailed information on how combat works is surprisingly difficult) and within that system, Defend the Log doesn't actually have any clear cut effect.
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Combat docs are here

When you say it has no clear cut effect, what do you mean? It adds a huge number of dice.
 
eaglejarl said:
Combat docs are here

When you say it has no clear cut effect, what do you mean? It adds a huge number of dice.
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Okay, so if combat range is based on checking one of five different range tiers and Defend the Log is based on checking if you're inside a specific cube, it's not particularly easy to figure out who is in the cube with you, how easy it is to get out, how hard it is to keep someone in the cube, etc. You see the problem, yeah? It's not clear cut how any of that actually works. The rules for how to use Defend the Log don't actually function within the current combat system.
 
Poor Kei. She's the only member of team uplift who won't have jounin combat stats for tournament.
 
Update is going to be very late tonight or possibly very late Monday night since I may have to finish writing it after work tomorrow. Alternatively, maybe I'll just say screw it, stop mid-battle, and let Velorien sort it out on Thursday. There are way too many people in this fight; figuring out what all of them can do and then doing all the rolls is a complete pain in the ass.

Whatever. Don't expect anything soon.
 
eaglejarl said:
Update is going to be very late tonight or possibly very late Monday night since I may have to finish writing it after work tomorrow. Alternatively, maybe I'll just say screw it, stop mid-battle, and let Velorien sort it out on Thursday. There are way too many people in this fight; figuring out what all of them can do and then doing all the rolls is a complete pain in the ass.

Whatever. Don't expect anything soon.
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Dammit. Sorry I couldn't get my dice roller out for you.
 
eaglejarl said:
Update is going to be very late tonight or possibly very late Monday night since I may have to finish writing it after work tomorrow. Alternatively, maybe I'll just say screw it, stop mid-battle, and let Velorien sort it out on Thursday. There are way too many people in this fight; figuring out what all of them can do and then doing all the rolls is a complete pain in the ass.

Whatever. Don't expect anything soon.
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It would be hard to run combat for 24 kung fu battle wizards
 
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