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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Sampatrick said:
I wouldn't exactly describe Shadowrun as a professionally designed system, and I certainly wouldn't describe it as a playtested system.
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I was considering bringing that up :p

I adore the setting, but we've probably done more breaking of this game's rules (RIP substitution nukes :() than they have. ...also, the convenient thing about making a new set of rules is that the players can't just google how to break the game :p
 
Sampatrick said:
I wouldn't exactly describe Shadowrun as a professionally designed system, and I certainly wouldn't describe it as a playtested system.
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*puzzled*

I'm pretty sure there's a joke here, but I'm not getting it...Shadowrun was designed by a bunch of people who were paid to design games, working for a company that made money publishing games, and it's been being played continuously for almost thirty years, so it's pretty thoroughly playtested. Are you simply saying that you think it's exploitable? Because that describes pretty much every RPG I know of -- once you let a few thousand people loose on a nontrivial rule system, they're going to break it.
 
Cariyaga said:
I was considering bringing that up :p

I adore the setting, but we've probably done more breaking of this game's rules (RIP substitution nukes :() than they have. ...also, the convenient thing about making a new set of rules is that the players can't just google how to break the game :p
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Honestly, there really aren't very many RPGs that do the math necessary to be properly balanced and not prone to horrifying exploits. Specifically, D&D 4e is very tightly designed and a lot of modern RPGs go the Apocalypse World route and avoid the issue entirely by abstracting the system. Most crunchy systems end up being designed by people who are so obsessed with simulationism that they forget that RPGs are still games at the end of the day and need to be designed accordingly.

eaglejarl said:
*puzzled*

I'm pretty sure there's a joke here, but I'm not getting it...Shadowrun was designed by a bunch of people who were paid to design games, working for a company that made money publishing games, and it's been being played continuously for almost thirty years, so it's pretty thoroughly playtested. Are you simply saying that you think it's exploitable? Because that describes pretty much every RPG I know of -- once you let a few thousand people loose on a nontrivial rule system, they're going to break it.
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It was mostly just a throwaway line. Shadowrun is pretty demonstrably designed incredibly poorly compared to any reasonably designed game. The character advancement system is garbage, combat is essentially nonfuctional, and especially the divide between when matrix characters are doing things and when nonmatrix characters are doing things is just godawful. The fluff is pretty dang awesome, but the system mostly just gets in the way of that. Think of it this way: Duke Nukem Forever was designed by professionals and was certainly playtested, but the game definitely doesn't feel like either of those statements is true. Think of it this way: Duke Nukem Forever was certainly playtested and was definitely designed by professionals. That doesn't mean that it actually feels like either of those statements are true.
 
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@eaglejarl Just to let you know that this might be the most excited I have been for an update ever. So ready for the master of writing combat to write the most brutal face punching update ever
 
mumblegrumble I think I might have been expecting too much of myself to learn a new programming language and write a dice roller suitably complex for our ruleset and with a pleasant-to-use GUI in 30 hours.

Who'd have guessed? :p

(I'm still working on the other one that uses google sheets, but had RL distractions for the past few weeks that prevented me from making much progress there until recently. It may be easier to just use regex and XML files of them with a C# program.)
 
Cariyaga said:
mumblegrumble I think I might have been expecting too much of myself to learn a new programming language and write a dice roller suitably complex for our ruleset and with a pleasant-to-use GUI in 30 hours.

Who'd have guessed? :p

(I'm still working on the other one that uses google sheets, but had RL distractions for the past few weeks that prevented me from making much progress there until recently. It may be easier to just use regex and XML files of them with a C# program.)
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That's why I just skip the whole spreadsheet thing and just input the data after reverse engineering the formula, which was PITA.
 
Kiba said:
That's why I just skip the whole spreadsheet thing and just input the data after reverse engineering the formula, which was PITA.
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Well, yeah, but making the GUI's hard part. The formula's (yourRoll - theirRoll) / (yourDice + theirDice)^.65. The idea behind this project is to get a GUI to make dicerolling against opponents less stressful and less accident-prone. Even something as simple as a "roll intiative" button would cut down on QM-time a lot.
 
I didn't bother with a gui, my program operates out of the python console. It just prompts you to enter the attacker and defender dice then randoms their results and plugs them into the formula so it can spit out the success class number and letter. Not fancy, but it does the job.
 
MadScientist said:
I didn't bother with a gui, my program operates out of the python console. It just prompts you to enter the attacker and defender dice then randoms their results and plugs them into the formula so it can spit out the success class number and letter. Not fancy, but it does the job.
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I decided to try to make a nice and fancy python class for ninjas, which will calculate their rolls, injuries, chakra levels, chakra regeneration, and dice rolls based off their stats. Once I finish it, I'll add something that pulls data from the spreadsheets online so it can just grab a pair of ninja's stats and calculate combat between them (given what options they choose). The goal is to be able to simulate combat given spreadsheets to work from, or manual skills to enter for ninja. No idea if this'll help or not, but it's fun for me lol.

Got the basics of combat working (so long as you only use your base stat + boost optionally, and only fight one person), and currently have instituted the pangolin conditioning jutsu in how it calculates injury values.

Next step is to automate basic mass combat. Then, put in dodging rules and AoE. Then Stealth checks. Then throw in range checks and opposed Tac Move options for moving through combat. Then an initiative calculator.

Once I've got those basics working, I'll move onto all the various exceptions we've got for random jutsu and stuff. I think that's just Roki, Vampiric Dew, Syrup Trap, Pantokrator's Hammer Technique, Hozuki's Mantle, Pangolin Claws, YFotMBTiRSaT, Flame Aura, Explosion Master, Macerator Ring Style, substitution, Goo Bombs, silence mines, HLaM, Echolocation, Living Roots, and Genjutsu rules. Let me know if I'm missing anything.
 
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Interesting. I can't find documentation on how mass combat works with position and ranges. I'm unsure how it should be resolved. I.e. do we ignore range? Are sides composed of all friendly ninja who can attack an enemy ninja, and all enemy ninja who can support that ninja? Some other way?
 
Radvic said:
Once I've got those basics working, I'll move onto all the various exceptions we've got for random jutsu and stuff. I think that's just Roki, Vampiric Dew, Syrup Trap, Pantokrator's Hammer Technique, Hozuki's Mantle, Pangolin Claws, YFotMBTiRSaT, Flame Aura, Explosion Master, Macerator Ring Style, substitution, Goo Bombs, silence mines, HLaM, Echolocation, Living Roots, and Genjutsu rules. Let me know if I'm missing anything.
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Funny you should mention that.... @Velorien has been getting creative, and I signed off on it. See next post.
 
Radvic said:
I think that's just Roki, Vampiric Dew, Syrup Trap, Pantokrator's Hammer Technique, Hozuki's Mantle, Pangolin Claws, YFotMBTiRSaT, Flame Aura, Explosion Master, Macerator Ring Style, substitution, Goo Bombs, silence mines, HLaM, Echolocation, Living Roots, and Genjutsu rules. Let me know if I'm missing anything.
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Missing hiding in the mist, skywalkers, earth armor and ghost scales
 
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Defend the Log Technique
Resolve * 4, Stamina * 2

Fight, mighty Pangolin Clan! Rise up, allies of the Pangolin! Breathe in the power of the Pantokrator as you Defend the Log! Allow His speed and strength to flow through you as you crush the enemies of the Clan!

At casting time, the pangolin designates:
  • A cube of up to X meters per side, where X <= (⅓ * Level). The volume of the cube must include the caster's current location.
  • A power level of up to Yd100, where Y <= Level.
  • Zero or more allies, all of whom must be within the volume of the cube as it forms.
Every turn, the pangolin gets +Yd100 to TacMov and physical combat skills. Its designated allies get +(½ * Y)d100 bonus to TacMov and physical combat skills. The bonuses to TacMov apply to initiative on the following round.

Any ally who leaves the cube (voluntarily or not) loses the benefit and does not regain it if they re-enter.

If the pangolin leaves the cube the jutsu fails.

The cube is visible as a faint shimmer of coloured chakra.

This technique does not stack with itself, although it does stack with normal chakra boost.

Cost: X * Y CP per turn that the jutsu is kept active. Combat action to activate, Quick to sustain.
 
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eaglejarl said:
Defend the Log Technique
Resolve * 4, Stamina * 2

Fight, mighty Pangolin Clan! Rise up, allies of the Pangolin! Breathe in the power of the Pantokrator as you Defend the Log! Allow His speed and strength to flow through you as you crush the enemies of the Clan!

At casting time, the pangolin designates:
  • A cube of up to X meters per side, where X <= (⅓ * Level). The volume of the cube must include the caster's current location.
  • A power level of up to Yd100, where Y <= Level.
  • Zero or more allies, all of whom must be within the volume of the cube as it forms.
Every turn, the pangolin gets +Yd100 to TacMov and physical combat skills. Its designated allies get +(½ * Y)d100 bonus to TacMov and physical combat skills. The bonuses to TacMov apply to initiative on the following round.

Any ally who leaves the cube (voluntarily or not) loses the benefit and does not regain it if they re-enter.

If the pangolin leaves the cube the jutsu fails.

The cube is visible as a faint shimmer of coloured chakra.

Cost: X * Y CP per turn that the jutsu is kept active. Combat action to activate, Quick to sustain.
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Shiny. Probably won't get to adding that to the class today, but should be able to get the basics of the code running. Any comment on how mass combat functions with ninjas of various ranges? I.e. does it only happen when multiple ninja are ganging up on someone during a teamfight? Or is it just generally added to every combat action from every ninja on each side? Something else?
 
Oh, by the way, which of these techniques (that we know of) do Keiko's summons know?

e: ...Also, is Water Whip considered a Physical Combat Skill? I mean, technically, it's a technique, but its mechanism of action is very much physical...
 
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Radvic said:
Any comment on how mass combat functions with ninjas of various ranges? I.e. does it only happen when multiple ninja are ganging up on someone during a teamfight? Or is it just generally added to every combat action from every ninja on each side? Something else?
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I think we've gone back and forth on that. The last I recall we decided that every ninja who is actively involved in a conflict is considered in the calculation. This was for two reasons: (1) The point of MC bonuses is that you're having to split your attention across multiple opponents and avoid possibly being attacked from odd angles and (2) it made our lives hella easier and there's a point at which simulationism yields right of way to the desire to live.


Cariyaga said:
e: ...Also, is Water Whip considered a Physical Combat Skill? I mean, technically, it's a technique, but its mechanism of action is very much physical...
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As I understand it, yes, it is considered a PCS.


@Velorien, @OliWhail, check me on both of those.
 
eaglejarl said:
Defend the Log Technique
Resolve * 4, Stamina * 2

Fight, mighty Pangolin Clan! Rise up, allies of the Pangolin! Breathe in the power of the Pantokrator as you Defend the Log! Allow His speed and strength to flow through you as you crush the enemies of the Clan!

At casting time, the pangolin designates:
  • A cube of up to X meters per side, where X <= (⅓ * Level). The volume of the cube must include the caster's current location.
  • A power level of up to Yd100, where Y <= Level.
  • Zero or more allies, all of whom must be within the volume of the cube as it forms.
Every turn, the pangolin gets +Yd100 to TacMov and physical combat skills. Its designated allies get +(½ * Y)d100 bonus to TacMov and physical combat skills. The bonuses to TacMov apply to initiative on the following round.

Any ally who leaves the cube (voluntarily or not) loses the benefit and does not regain it if they re-enter.

If the pangolin leaves the cube the jutsu fails.

The cube is visible as a faint shimmer of coloured chakra.

Cost: X * Y CP per turn that the jutsu is kept active. Combat action to activate, Quick to sustain.
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How does this actually work in a combat situation? It seems like it will be very difficult to actually determine who is inside the cube and who is not without an extremely detailed combat map. This is definitely the type of technique that will make evaluating combat situations a lot more difficult for you if we end up going into it. It also seems like it's going to either be unusable or completely broken with very little in between; the chakra investment can become gargantuan, but the bonuses are also gargantuan. It's either going to be a crippling expense, or trivialize combat because the bonuses are so high.
 
eaglejarl said:
Defend the Log Technique
Resolve * 4, Stamina * 2

Fight, mighty Pangolin Clan! Rise up, allies of the Pangolin! Breathe in the power of the Pantokrator as you Defend the Log! Allow His speed and strength to flow through you as you crush the enemies of the Clan!

At casting time, the pangolin designates:
  • A cube of up to X meters per side, where X <= (⅓ * Level). The volume of the cube must include the caster's current location.
  • A power level of up to Yd100, where Y <= Level.
  • Zero or more allies, all of whom must be within the volume of the cube as it forms.
Every turn, the pangolin gets +Yd100 to TacMov and physical combat skills. Its designated allies get +(½ * Y)d100 bonus to TacMov and physical combat skills. The bonuses to TacMov apply to initiative on the following round.

Any ally who leaves the cube (voluntarily or not) loses the benefit and does not regain it if they re-enter.

If the pangolin leaves the cube the jutsu fails.

The cube is visible as a faint shimmer of coloured chakra.

Cost: X * Y CP per turn that the jutsu is kept active. Combat action to activate, Quick to sustain.
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So at lv 30 (Res 8, Sta 15) we create a 10m cube of +30 TM/Combat to user, +15 TM/Combat to allies, requiring combat action cast, quick action + 90CP sustain.
 
eaglejarl said:
I think we've gone back and forth on that. The last I recall we decided that every ninja who is actively involved in a conflict is considered in the calculation. This was for two reasons: (1) The point of MC bonuses is that you're having to split your attention across multiple opponents and avoid possibly being attacked from odd angles and (2) it made our lives hella easier and there's a point at which simulationism yields right of way to the desire to live.
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Cool. then I've added a mass combat bonus calculator to my code. Slowly but surely building to to a usable thing (won't be done in time for this battle though).
 
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