Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
You are probably not going to get a spyglass from the ANBU. It'll be all standard ninja gear, because a spyglass or a telescope is expensive as hell.
Unless, you get Keiko to do a requisition request after the end of the debriefing.
"While it is unnecessary for the completion of this particular mission, we think that a spyglass/telescope would be tremendously useful in future missions and would enhance our survivability for X, Y, and Z reasons. In lieu normal mission payment, we would accept this as a reward, or we could accept it as a loan from Leaf."
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- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Keiko isn't coming with us. That's why my talk is before we separate.
Keiko will be doing the debriefing with Jiraiya, who will be the one signing the requisition order.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@faflec @huhYeahGoodPoint might consider having Kei ask about the Hana rescue mission. See if we can get a go, no go. Also should see if we di get permission if there are any assets or equipment he could provide us.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
We got a no-go before, and I don't think that's going to have changed so soon.
What we can do is ask about what happened in Leaf while we were gone and figure out how long until no-go becomes go.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We got a no go till after the Yakuza mission
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
No, we got a no go until the Naruto situation is dealt with.
- Location
- Yes.
Clarify who the "dangerous girl" is. I suspect it's the kunoichi who killed Panjandrum but am not 100% based on this statement.
Ok. If you change nothing else about this section, then add the phrase: DO NOT DO THIS IN FRONT OF MINAMI. That being said:
- Please delete or at least heavily revise this section.
- We don't know that Minami considers 60 civilians to be less valuable than one ninja. She never said that, we-the-hivemind only know because we got to see her internal monologue. We-the-PC have zero indication that Minami believes this, we only know that Minami knows an investigation will happen and ninja involvement will be revealed; Akatsuki may take notice and the resulting debacle might ruin any intel Goda could give us.
- Therefore we shouldn't argue that it's wrong for Minami to assume that by killing these 60 lives a Leaf-nin could be saved, because...well, we don't fucking know Minami was thinking that.
- Still on that same vein, it seems naive for us to not make the assumption that killing those 60 people would increase the chance of saving more lives could be saved in the long-run. The entire situation is that we know the "logical" decision (kill 60, increase chance of saving >60) requires us to perform an immoral act (kill 60).
- Once again, we don't know the depths of Minami's racism. We don't know that she believes that Leaf is the pure bastion of whatever whatever, and if the village falls then the world will slowly fall to darkness. All this is, from Hazou's POV, based on complete speculation.
- Saying that civilians are unworthy of being factored into moral calculations is a bit extreme. Minami is aware of the value that the civilian brings, in terms of labor and skills. She believes that Leaf-nin die to ensure that civilians as a whole survive. Minami's problem FMPOV is that she also believes any number of civilians should also die to protect any one ninja. She's not undercounting the value of civilians, she's overcounting the value of a ninja relative to a civilian.
- "How do you tell the difference between a farmer on the border of Fire and Stone?" makes no sense; Minami believes ninjas are inherently more worthy than civilians to an extreme extent. She is not biased when comparing Stone or Fire farmers. Please clarify if I'm reading this wrong.
- Make sure you clarify how the situations are similar. The argument can be made that scorch squads have a minimal cost/benefit between two opposing villages, whereas our situation is beneficial to Leaf...but not really costly to any one village. It's costly to Akatsuki specifically, but...well fuck them.
- We don't know that Minami considers 60 civilians to be less valuable than one ninja. She never said that, we-the-hivemind only know because we got to see her internal monologue. We-the-PC have zero indication that Minami believes this, we only know that Minami knows an investigation will happen and ninja involvement will be revealed; Akatsuki may take notice and the resulting debacle might ruin any intel Goda could give us.
- Ignoring how stupid it would be for any of them to state this outright...
- This entire section is exactly what Minami's internal monologue is describing. Leaf protects the people, if Leaf dies so does the world; shinobi protect the people, if all shinobi die so does the world. Weren't we talking about how that was wrong?
- Need to clarify how this still works. Shinobi are important because they'll protect the common people, yes; the problem is with the current system we're stuck in a situation where shinobi are so much more important than civilians that they'll kill any number of civilians to survive.
- Do you refer to 2.1 or 2.2.1? 2.1 is talking about "how dare Minami do this"; 2.2.1 is talking about "why all shinobi should die". Please clarify.
Clarification: Do you believe this was preventable if we'd discussed things before? In other words, having the ability to re-do everything from Chapter 130 onwards, would we have come up with a better plan?
We already gave this with the last scheduled drop-off with Jiraiya. Why are we repeating ourselves?
No, get supplies and then sleep. If we're told to leave we'd be in a situation where we leave, sleep, then come back the next morning to leave again. Say that we grab supplies first.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Personally, I don't without unacceptable risks (engaging in Ise).
- Location
- Yes.
Exactly what I'm worried about: if we make the assumption that we have the ability to only harm guilty parties if we just think better, when we make plans we'll end up taking more risky plans (like you said, engaging in Ise) which could result in the best-case scenario but at the cost of significantly more risk. Which to me isn't worth it, but if we-the-hivemind push Hazou into that mentality we'll end up doing these things.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Regardless we will be in the area after updating the spy network. So trying to prepare in advance can't do anything but help
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
How do you propose we try to prepare in advance if we've already asked and gotten a "forget about it until you're done with your mission"?
[X] Action Plan: Rationalization
This plan, if passive, is less likely to go wrong.
@faflec also, we're unlikely to get a spyglass or telescope out of the ANBU unless we work for it. "Can I have a telescope?" is going to elicit a probably no.
We might get a B-rank mission reward for our work. Have Keiko ask instead for a spyglass or telescope.
This plan, if passive, is less likely to go wrong.
@faflec also, we're unlikely to get a spyglass or telescope out of the ANBU unless we work for it. "Can I have a telescope?" is going to elicit a probably no.
We might get a B-rank mission reward for our work. Have Keiko ask instead for a spyglass or telescope.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
First I think that you are entirely wrong about waiting till after the spy network mission. All the other questions where about the Yakuza mission. Even if you are right Kei is going to have a sit down with Jiraiya. She can ask if there is anything that Jiraiya can give us to assist. Also we can be talking to people about rumors from mist. That way we can better prepare to initiate the mission
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
It's likely we'll get more missions after the spy network and won't have time to do anything about Hana, especially if Hazō's godbrother is still missing.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
We'd probably come up with a plan that didn't treat the logistics of how to deal with the civilians as an afterthought - it was only after we captured the boat more or less intact and miles away from anywhere we could drop the boat and its civilians that we suddenly started giving serious thought to "what do we do with the civilians?". By that point the only reasonable and normal course of action available was to kill them, but that's not what we want.
As for grabbing supplies and then sleeping, we'll be wanting sleep badly from 24+ hours of consciousness. I don't trust in everyone's abilities to stay perfectly alert and remember everything we might need after an allnighter. That's why I'd rather do it after sleeping.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's the line that means it probably refers to Yakuza mission. Updating spy network is not vital to leaf
Seriously?
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well let's ask. @Velorien @eaglejarl was Jiraiya talking about the Yakuza mission or the spy network mission before doing anything about Hana
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
I highly doubt there was a way we could have done the mission which would have both given us something we could do with the civilians and not traded off for our own safety. Here are some other methods we could have used, and the tradeoffs they cause:
- Fight in the bay before departure
- Higher stakes for witnesses
- Harder to be unspotted in assault
- Higher likelihood of random detection
- Higher likelihood of unaligned parties interfering
- Less time to prepare Pangolin strategy
- Fight at sea, but near an island we can dump sailors
- Less able to modify attack time for no observation
- Requires more time
- Requires additional scouting (more chances of discovery)
- Has chance sailors are found by search ninja sent by Yakuza, story would unravel from there
- Has possibility sailors just starve to death over a long period of time
- Might not be any island available in the first place
- Follow Goda to the next appointment and nab him somewhere later
- Takes more time
- Risks detection
- Risks losing Goda
- Risks aditional ninja arriving
- Fight in a traditional ninja sense, without using any revealing attributes
- Significant risk of death by not using our OP abilities