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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Or, if we're suddenly being douchebags, we could rationalize the civilian crew as being complicit in Yakuza activities by ferrying Goda and their deaths as unfortunate, but acceptable losses.
 
So we should have been trying to pick up info on Mist to try and get the starting leg work down for putting together a plan to grab our mom from Mist. Gathering shipping manifests and orders for materials food and other resources that we could use to piece together the big picture of how Mist is reacting to the kidnapping of their leader.
 
Kiba said:
[X] Action Plan: Rationalization

This plan, if passive, is less likely to go wrong.

@faflec also, we're unlikely to get a spyglass or telescope out of the ANBU unless we work for it. "Can I have a telescope?" is going to elicit a probably no.

We might get a B-rank mission reward for our work. Have Keiko ask instead for a spyglass or telescope.
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Edited such that we'd ask Mari-sensei or Jiraiya. Dunno about rewards since we're Leaf-nin but Jiraiya's cool so he'd probably just give it to us instead.
 
@faflec

To make it less passive, do an after action report, pointing out failures and success, with some focus on how to prevent collateral death in the future.
 
Kiba said:
@faflec

To make it less passive, do an after action report, pointing out failures and success, with some focus on how to prevent collateral death in the future.
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Thanks for the suggestion. Will add.

Do you have any thoughts as to the Akane section (like, what do we talk about)? Because at this rate I'm probably going to delete it, it's a handful of lines and not that interesting.
 
faflec said:
Thanks for the suggestion. Will add.

Do you have any thoughts as to the Akane section (like, what do we talk about)? Because at this rate I'm probably going to delete it, it's a handful of lines and not that interesting.
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Could ask how she deals with the death of civilians. Try to figure out how she can reconcile the philosophies of youth with taking the lifes of innocents
 
Radvic said:
Ultimately, if we wanted to save the civilians, we were going to need to take additional personal risk, be that of casualties in the operation, having the operation fail it's primary objective, or taking much more time.
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That's just it though - apparently the stakes were so high that any increase in risk whatsoever wasn't worth it. Notice how the location we selected for the ambush point was the farthest point away from the shore as possible? If we ambushed anywhere along the coastline out of sight from Ise, and presumably where the ninja originate from, it would have probably worked just as well, barring the fractional chance that there were ninja lookouts scattered along the shore that could quickly access multiple jonin level combatants and get them to the boat in a reasonable response frame.

I mean, another part was in revealing the Pangolins. We could have had Hazou/Minami Henge into Condors, thus throwing everything into doubt about the testimony, or Substitute with the Pangolins just as Noburi was about to finish draining to make it seem like their henge popped, or maybe not have them show up at all, though that would be a pretty bad idea.

There was many things we could have done that would have minutely increased the risk that might have allowed them to live, but instead, we chose the path that pretty much ignored how to save the civilians until there wasn't any choice but to kill them.
 
And edits are largely complete, though suggestions are appreciated for the new dialogue in section 2.1

huhYeahGoodPoint said:
here, have a plan or something:

[X] Action Plan: Sleep Is For The Weak
Objectives:
  • Keep Team Uplift Plus One alive.
  • Keep Team Uplift Plus One functional
  • Keep ourselves oriented to our goal.
  • Keep our teammates oriented to our goal, and shut down unproductive thoughts.
  • Continue the mission.
Actions:
  1. Set off for Leaf village with the captives in tow.
    1. Remind the other team to be careful about their chakra use. Run out thousands of feet in the air without an easy way to replenish it is a Bad Thing.
      1. Tell them we're likely to reach the rendezvouz in two to three days.
    2. Ensure they are secured.
      1. This means unable to form handseals, see, hear, or talk.
      2. Have Noburi take a moment during a break to ensure that Goda can't commit suicide by false teeth, poisoned fingernails or whatnot.
    3. Do not stop to sleep.
      1. If Noburi needs a chakra source, he can drain the two kunoichi as we go along to provide extra chakra.
      2. If we stop to eat, make sure our prisoners have something to drink, and maybe a bite to eat. Ensure that they can be interrogated.
    4. Stay calm. You don't gain anything from a depressive spiral, and besides, they are sixty more promises to carry out your ambition.
      1. You don't have to repress your emotions, but don't stop moving unless you're taking a break.
    5. Noburi carries Goda, Hazou carries the girl that oneshot the Sustainer, and Akane carries her sister.
  2. Talking with our teammates
    1. If they say how could Minami kill those civilians, respond that we understand her viewpoint, why it's wrong, and encourage them to take this as further motivation. DO NOT SAY THIS IN FRONT OF MINAMI
      1. Her mistake was treating civilian lives as a nonfactor - what to do with them was always assumed to be execution, because any infinitesimal risk was too much.
      2. Saying civilian lives are effectively worthless compared to ninja lives is just plain wrong, and goes a long way to explaining why the Liberator was so popular.
      3. This nonchalance towards civilian deaths is exactly what we agreed to stop in that cave all those weeks ago, sitting by a campfire. We swore to make this better, and we are not abandoning the path now because we encountered some difficulty! We agreed that it was reprehensible there, so don't stop seeing it as reprehensible here! We'll aim to fix this all by doing what we can.
      4. If they want reasoning for how more civilian lives could have been saved, point out that we literally picked the point furthest from the coastline, had the pangolins bust into the lower decks despite having Noburi's abilities, and didn't try to disguise pangolin involvement in any way save the fog.
    2. If they say something like how all shinobi should die, stop them. (this includes us, by the way.)
      1. Chakra beasts roam outside the walls of every hamlet, village, and city. To ignore them is the direst of threats, and to argue for killing all the shinobi would be an argument to end all civilization.
      2. Shinobi have vastly greater powers than simply destruction. Destruction is easy, but chakra makes construction far easier than without. To destroy all farming implements because some wield them as weapons of war would be stupid - but here we are, arguing for the destruction of all high chakra entities.
      3. Just because shinobi are worth something doesn't mean that civilians are worth an infinitesimal amount in comparison, however. That's largely the mistake Minami made.
    3. If they ask us how we are so calm about this, refer to 2.1, or "how is Minami okay with this?"
    4. Remind everyone they did well under the circumstances. DO THIS BEFORE WE SEPERATE!
      1. The loss of life was really bad, and is something we're going to fight to avoid in the future during planning rather than post battle.
        1. We probably could have avoided killing all of them if we planned to save some as a subgoal, but it was our collective mistake not to treat minimizing civilian deaths as a subgoal during the planning phases.
      2. However, rather than let us be crippled by doubt and depression, we choose to take a lesson from this, and steel our resolve towards our goal - uplift.
      3. Our strength here was in the combat section - we pulled that off flawlessly.
        1. Keiko, your summoning abilities surpassed our expectations. We're proud of you.
        2. Noburi, you executed a near perfect nonlethal takedown of dozens of enemy combatants, including shinobi, of unknown abilities. This achievement cannot be overstated.
      4. You guys were brilliant, and pulled off the plan flawlessly.
  3. Arrival
    1. Hand off the captives.
      1. Ask if they want us to revive them now with chakra water.
    2. Give a debriefing if ordered too.
      1. Mention how the bouncer wants an apartment in Konoha for his services, along with his daughter.
    3. Go to sleep. If there are no places inside Konoha that will take us, go sleep a distance away from the city.
    4. In the morning, pick up some food and weapon supplies.
  4. Rendezvouz
    1. If sleeping outside the city, remember to take shifts. Obviously this is a bad possibility, but a necessary one.
    2. Run for as long as you can before either sixteen hours have passed or Noburi has run down to a liter of water.
      1. Refill on chakra from other sources when we stop.
    3. Sleep in shifts. If we had to sleep in shifts before, last night's first shift is up first, then last shift is up for midnight shift, and then midnight shift is up for last shift.
    4. Finish running to the rendezvouz point.
  5. Contingencies:
    1. If we see shinobi on the horizons above the clouds, drop as fast as we can while keeping the hostages intact and hide. We do not want to be seen by Akatsuki or the Pangolin Summoner.
      1. If we're near Konoha, attempt to make a break for it. They might be skywalker Leaf troops, but ground level is probably safe.
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huhYeahGoodPoint said:
That's just it though - apparently the stakes were so high that any increase in risk whatsoever wasn't worth it. Notice how the location we selected for the ambush point was the farthest point away from the shore as possible? If we ambushed anywhere along the coastline out of sight from Ise, and presumably where the ninja originate from, it would have probably worked just as well, barring the fractional chance that there were ninja lookouts scattered along the shore that could quickly access multiple jonin level combatants and get them to the boat in a reasonable response frame.

I mean, another part was in revealing the Pangolins. We could have had Hazou/Minami Henge into Condors, thus throwing everything into doubt about the testimony, or Substitute with the Pangolins just as Noburi was about to finish draining to make it seem like their henge popped, or maybe not have them show up at all, though that would be a pretty bad idea.

There was many things we could have done that would have minutely increased the risk that might have allowed them to live, but instead, we chose the path that pretty much ignored how to save the civilians until there wasn't any choice but to kill them.
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A few points:
1) I don't think the ship would come within view of the coastline that often? Likely just when it leaves and when it arrives.
2) The Condors idea is cool, but has a bunch of problems with implementation. Specifically:
a) I don't think we can successfully fly in henge form
b) I'm unsure we can turn into Condors without significant training (Not sure where henge is in its ever increasingly nerfed state)
c) If we reveal Minami/Hazou before the attack, then the ninja could use long range ninjutsu to kill us before the Pangolins arrived
d) If we reveal Minami/Hazou after the attack, nobody would see them because of the Mist
e) Civilians dropped ~5 seconds before the combat ended, and Hazou and Minami landed tens of seconds after combat ended. I don't think they could have substituted with the pangolins.

Ultimately, yes. We chose that increasing the chances of succeeding in our goals (don't increase animosity towards leaf, keep team alive, capture Goda) was more important than the 60 civilian lives. This is consistent with our decision making throughout the quest as we prioritize our end goals above those of others, even up to loss of innocent life. The primary difference here was that it was more apparent how we negatively impacted the sailors lives and thus is harder for us to convince ourselves we're making the world a better place.
 
Edits made according to @Oneiros43's suggestions. Thanks!

@Kiba I'm still working on an AAR, main difficulty is figuring out what we did wrong. Would appreciate help.
faflec said:
Here's a basic plan that does nothing but what the mission entails, plus a (mostly-empty) conversation with Akane. Obviously it's boring as shit. Feedback and ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[X] Action Plan: Rationalization
  • General:
    • Best girlfriend is best team leader. She says X? DO X!
    • When moving, minimize chatter in favor of alertness.
  • Main Questline:
      • (Almost) nonstop 15-16hr run back.
      • Break only when we need to replace Skywalkers.
        • Take this time to replenish chakra, food, and water.
        • Noburi can check on the prisoners to ensure they are alive but chakra-drained. Unconscious if appropriate.
        • If SOP, slightly hydrate the prisoners.
      • During one such break, check Goda & his retinue for false teeth/cyanide capsules.
        • Just in case Minami missed it. She did seem out of it.
      • If we MUST stop to sleep, set up a Skytower and sleep. Keep shifts.
      • Drop off Goda and his ninja bodyguards. Also give the intel we recovered.
        • Ask if they want us to wake them up via chakra water.
      • If prompted, give a mission briefing.
      • Collect weapons & food supplies.
        • See if we can get a spyglass or telescope. Ask Mari-sensei or Jiraiya if we get the chance to talk with them.
      • Take some time to rest after our run. Keep shifts.
        • If allowed, sleep in Konoha. Our old apartment, or estate if Jiraiya bought it.
        • If not allowed, head a ways to our destination, set up a Skywalker, and then sleep.
      • Skywalk back to the team.
        • It's a 22 hour run (to Nagi Island, on average). Don't exhaust ourselves with a second all-nighter.
  • Complete an After-Action Report.
    • Do the report after we regroup with the team, as time permits.
    • Keep in mind Minami still considers us to be the Cold Stone Killers/outsiders.
      • ?
      • ?
  • Talk with Akane.
    • Do this when we have a break, NOT when we're moving.
    • Ask her about Guy's philosophy and YOUTH.
      • How does she reconcile this with what happened?
      • What would Guy do? What would Lee?
    • Give her a hug. Best girlfriend deserves it, and more.
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faflec said:
@Kiba I'm still working on an AAR, main difficulty is figuring out what we did wrong. Would appreciate help.
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Things which could have gone better:
  • Disguising our trump card usages so we might not need to kill witnesses
  • Timing between the air-team landing and the boat team?
    • Perhaps start with mist, then Pangolins invade after mist
  • Better knowledge of the Pangolin's personal combat ability for better diagnosis of enemy ninja capabilities
 
Radvic said:
Ultimately, yes. We chose that increasing the chances of succeeding in our goals (don't increase animosity towards leaf, keep team alive, capture Goda) was more important than the 60 civilian lives. This is consistent with our decision making throughout the quest as we prioritize our end goals above those of others, even up to loss of innocent life. The primary difference here was that it was more apparent how we negatively impacted the sailors lives and thus is harder for us to convince ourselves we're making the world a better place.
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That might have been your justification, but as far as I can tell, before the operation we just weren't thinking about it. I can go back and check, but that's some soul crushing 70 pages to read.
 
Radvic said:
Things which could have gone better:
  • Disguising our trump card usages so we might not need to kill witnesses
  • Timing between the air-team landing and the boat team?
    • Perhaps start with mist, then Pangolins invade after mist
  • Better knowledge of the Pangolin's personal combat ability for better diagnosis of enemy ninja capabilities
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Yeah, when we get back to Konoha, we really need to figure out how good Kei's Pangolin are. ...and also pick up Panjandrum some food. Speaking of which, maybe we should see if we could get a meal from the Akimichi for him?
 
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
That might have been your justification, but as far as I can tell, before the operation we just weren't thinking about it. I can go back and check, but that's some soul crushing 70 pages to read.
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I'm unsure, I haven't been reading most of the discussion the past few weeks. Seems pretty obvious Op-Sec to kill witnesses though? Especially given we planned on using three identifying trump cards (Pangolins, Mist Drain, Skywalkers).
 
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
That might have been your justification, but as far as I can tell, before the operation we just weren't thinking about it. I can go back and check, but that's some soul crushing 70 pages to read.
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We essentially assumed that OPSEC wouldn't be breached enough such that we'd have to kill the civilians, and because thinking about killing civilians was painful we didn't want to think about it more/decided what we did was enough. Which it wasn't.
 
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