- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
I think this may have been one of the things that missed getting revamped in TGR, actually - thanks for pointing it out!
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
I agree that Skywalkers and having proven seal-tech innovators joining Leaf are definitely the main attractions for Leaf. Anything else we develop at the moment is just icing on the cake. That said, the Skywalker tech does still need some polishing to make it as ideal a product as possible - making it last longer, making it waterproof, making swapping out seals quick, etc. As such, taking around a month to resolve the issues is still worthwhile, and anything else we develop on top of that in the meantime will again just be a nice bonus for Leaf to make things look even better.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Kiba, I notice you have a habit of bringing up individual points like this that are very closely or tangentially related to the current discussion, but which seem like they have an intended message or conclusion behind them that is not spelled out explicitly. Could I ask if you wouldn't mind practicing a little bit of real-life clear communication no jutsu and explaining more fully what you were trying to get people to think of or realize with this post?
For example, it is a bit unclear to me what aspect of Hazou-the-hivemind you want people to devote their attention to instead of devoting it to improving skywalkers, and toward what goal you think this attention should be turned.
Rihaku
The Internet
The potential of any given inventor, regardless of his past inventions, isn't as bankable as the extant inventions themselves. For every Jon von Neumann there are a hundred one-hit wonders, and even von Neumann's contributions were concentrated (in real impact if not ingenuity) within a few critical innovations.
Even if they believe that you're a von Neumann (for which the evidence is modest but in no way overwhelming), it is by no means guaranteed or even likely that Hazou will ever produce an invention of such repute again. It's much easier for Jiraiya to negotiate down the value of an unknown compared to a concrete hypertechnology.
Even if they believe that you're a von Neumann (for which the evidence is modest but in no way overwhelming), it is by no means guaranteed or even likely that Hazou will ever produce an invention of such repute again. It's much easier for Jiraiya to negotiate down the value of an unknown compared to a concrete hypertechnology.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
I am merely pointing out that the skywalker is merely a product of one of the most powerful mind in the EN.
I intend to simplify the airship project to a hot air balloon prototype, so please reconsider when I make changes to simplify the action plan.
Hazō and team is supposed to discuss how much effort they should spend on skywalkers before moving on to the next project.
Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
Will do.
In light of @Rihaku's post I've updated in the direction of "pretty much all of it."
...
This is skirting dangerously close to actual discussion (which I've promised myself for my own sanity to avoid for a while) so back to lurking now.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
This seems like a true statement, but it is something that everyone should already be aware of. What are the updates or changes you are hoping that people make as a result of your statement? For example, are you arguing that "Hazou's potential" should be a bigger focus of the deal with Leaf than "Hazou's past acheivements"?
The development of skywalkers is pretty much a roughly three month long development affair for a jonin sealmaster It shouldn't be that hard to reverse engineer.
So Leaf pretty much has only one chance to use it, unless Leaf sealmasters work to add security features.
Yes, I meant that, but @Rihaku argued pretty conclusively against that.
I am inclined to agree that we probably won't make another war changing innovation so soon.
Let's see what seals Leaf hands us to fiddle with next before coming to that conclusion.
Plus we still haven't invented seal-based guns yet.
- Location
- Canada
[X] Action Plan: Help From A Friend
Let's see what seals Leaf hands us to fiddle with next before coming to that conclusion.
Plus we still haven't invented seal-based guns yet.
That would require better metallurgy? I guess we'll have Hazō invent better steel then.
I supposed a wooden barrel supported by FSB would work, but it's kinda annoying to use.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
This requires that they actually have the seal to reverse-engineer from. Despite Kagome's paranoid line of reasoning, it's highly unlikely that enemy ninja will be able to see ninja walking through the air and skip right to 'hack Air Domes', so they'd need the actual seal to work with. Which means every time Leaf uses Skywalkers, they risk that they fall into enemy hands and the advantage is lost in a few months.
This means Leaf either goes full every-Leaf-nin-gets-Skywalkers and banks on the war being over in a few months, or carefully minimizes risk of the seal ever falling into enemy hands. You're right in that it's not guaranteed to be Leaf-exclusive forever, but I imagine that will only be truly relevant after WW4, by which point Leaf may already be supreme.
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Actually, could a FSB supported barrel that only has the FSB active while the trigger is pulled work? Pull the trigger, FSB turns on at the same time as the bullet is shot off, then release the trigger and the FSB turns off. There'd still be a brief instant where you couldn't move the gun, but if you're trained to release the trigger quickly that should be fine I think. Actually, if the entire gun other than the trigger is under FSB, wouldn't that completely eliminate recoil?
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That seems a really clever idea. I approve
Rihaku
The Internet
It depends on a lot of factors, but given the example of the thread itself I think it's improbable that enemy sealmasters would deduce the proper combination of elements in a months-timespan, probably closer to single-digit years. Duct tape existed for decades before anyone thought to use it to make graphene, and that is orders of magnitude simpler than what Kagome did.
Plus, Jiraiya had the Air dome for unknown years and never invented Skywalkers despite being fantastically more skilled than Kagome.
Looking at how long it took the thread to invent Skywalkers despite actively pursuing the topic for 1000+ pages:
1) Air dome seals were included in Kagome's rewards following your exit from Leaf
2) Multiple updates and several dozen pages later is, as far as I know, the first major exploration of personal-scale Air dome usage (the Air Shields proposal in my tactics post)
3) Several dozen pages after that, when I ask the GMs about a clarification on Air Dome relative positioning, another poster (not one of the highly active regulars, I believe) comes up with the Sky Pogo Stick idea
4) Excitement for Sky Pogo Sticks is high but it takes several further pages to make the leap to Skywaddlers
And then there's another further leap from Skywaddlers to actual Skywalkers. All of this becomes nigh impossible without precise technical knowledge about the Air Dome seal, as evinced by the relatively futile Skywalker-development efforts of the thread in the hundreds of pages before Air Domes were acquired.
Enemy Sealmasters are in a position similar to the thread before Air Domes were introduced - they know seal-based three-dimensional movement is somehow possible (after they see Leaf using it), but have no real concrete ideas how to do it. They may even know of Air Domes, but isolating the "Air Domes -> Skywalkers" hypothesis out of the hundreds of seals a Hidden Village has will take years of trial and research. They also lack the many logistical advantages of an internet forum, and even then this forum may never have come up with the idea had Sky Pogo Sticks never been proposed.
In short, an enemy sealmaster needs to make the following inferential leaps:
1) Air Dome Seals exist
1a) Air Dome is the relevant Seal to research for this purpose [<--- Extremely non-obvious]
2) Air Dome Seals are relevant for personal-scale engagements, rather than just making domes
3) Air Dome Seals can make Sky Pogo Sticks
4) Sky Pogo Sticks lead to Skywaddlers
5) Skywaddler leads to Skywalkers
Relatively easy operational security measures:
1) Expand Search Space: Cover up the seals, forcing them to explore all aspects of ninja science and jutsu-craft for the innovation in question
2) Trolling - requires 1): Attach tiny propellers to the back of your sandals and use Usamatsu's Glorious Life-Saving Purifier to blow wind through them
3) Misinformation Campaign: Feed incorrect info through Jiraiya's asset network to enemies (Britain did the same during WWII, pretending that carrots aiding eyesight gave their pilots superior operational intelligence to conceal the existence of radar); in-person, refer to the Skywalkers with complete seriousness as a "Special Bloodline" or "the Favour of Jashin"
4) Prey on Misconceptions: Research a Skywalker improvement that overcomes one of the normal limits of the Air Dome seal, such as the 60 cm limit - Kagome already plans on doing this
I explore 5SB as a conduit for explosives / projectiles pretty extensively in the same long-ish tactics post where I brought up Air Shields - the main problem is aiming (5SBs are relatively big and of course immobile), which I addressed with Kawarimi, but I think the GMs shut down that line of inquiry. Would still make a great static defense cannon, though much less precise than even a Napoleanic era field piece.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
This is fucking beautiful
Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
I approve.
Simplify the hot air balloon project. Add a note that skywalker might be considered so critically important that it's better to spend all research effort on polishing it.
Clarify the question of Pangolins not liking flight or potentially squashing Keiko.
- Location
- UK
Invisible ink. It works, and we're one of the only ones who can do it. Put it on clay tablets an' ain't nobody going to recognize that those are meant to be seals.
Just call it a jutsu. It's both the most obvious and the most believable claim.
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