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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Does anyone actually have a training plan for Hazō and crew? I prefer not to go into researching new technology without sufficient MechApt and Sealing.
 
Enjou said:
Didn't we just vote last turn to train everyone in TacMove and whatnot using most of our XP?
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No training was done last plan.

I'm not up for training since we're going to be doing a lot of research, and TacMove is suddenly less valuable if we're going to Leaf where we can do long-term investments.
 
faflec said:
No training was done last plan.

I'm not up for training since we're going to be doing a lot of research, and TacMove is suddenly less valuable if we're going to Leaf where we can do long-term investments.
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Hazō doesn't have the skill to work on hot air balloons which is less seals and more crafting, and we all know how horrible Hazō is at crafting things despite his famed Kurosawa bloodline.
 
[X] Plan Developed Concept
[X] Action Plan: Setting Up for Leaf

Would vote for the Lighthouse one but I don't think we should spend an arbitrary amount of time researching random seals. Opportunity costs here. These are probably good ideas independently, but I'm against doing anything without a clear goal as to why we're doing it.

Would vote for Information Gathering, but I disagree that we should pay lip service to the idea of "doing something" -- infiltrating a random spot in Tea, although probably a good exercise, is unlikely to result in anything of much value otherwise, and introduces risk (although close to trivial). Main issues are opportunity costs, and possibility of unforseen issues (actual ninja in the area for unrelated reasons) leading to possible compromise. Again, risk is close to trivial, but I don't think it outweighs the possible benefits. I would probably vote for a good plan to just directly scout out Mountain, assuming we don't spend an inordinate amount of time doing so.
 
Radvic said:
Start by making wooden inserts to quickly replace the seals when they run out, and keep moisture away from them
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Leather cases have also been mentioned for moisture proofing.

Radvic said:
Determine if we can use Pangolin Summoning some way to maintain some form of communication with Kagome.
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If we leave Pandaa on the island with Kagome, then I believe that Panjandrum can reverse-summon her to the Sixth Path, then Pandaa can reverse-summon her to the island. Then they chain unsummon her to return her to her starting point. I'm not sure if that has to be timed, or if Keiko can ping them with summon attempts which they've coordinated ahead of time really mean reverse-summon me rather than answering the summons directly.

Radvic said:
Begin a basic infiltration of a small nobody town in Tea
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Instead of a small town, maybe Tonaki? It's pretty middling size, and if they haven't heard about Mountain, probably no one else outside of us/Leaf has. We've been there, so we probably don't need to scan it from the skies first, but it's close enough to be a base for scanning Mountain from the skies instead.

If we need to acquire a telescope rather than henging one, though, we probably need to go to a larger port town instead, unless we happen to know of somewhere where people make them.

Also, per @faflec, maybe stage it where we go to Tea when we've got some minimum level of improvement to skywalkers or if we haven't managed to get that level by one week.
 
Here's a second revision of the previous plan which has Noburi and Hazou stay with Kagome and Mari and Keiko go off for the mission on their own (so we get more research done, Kagome isn't left alone, and Keiko gets more diplomacy experience). Feel free to edit parts of this plan into your own, especially if you want more detailed research stuff but want to give Keiko and Mari something to do.

[X] Action Plan: Information Gathering and Seals

With decisions made, let's make progress on our goals, taking actions which will help us negotiate with Leaf better. This means improving skywalkers, getting Noburi started on mad science, gathering current information on the world, and finding out about the situation in Mountain.

Methods:
  1. Coordinate efforts with the other genin to attempt to henge into lenses and/or mirrors such that we can make a basic telescope, preferably using clones
    1. Because extending our sight from skyplatforms is important
  2. Work on improving skywalkers
    1. Start by making wooden inserts to quickly replace the seals when they run out, and keep moisture away from them
    2. Look at making a leather case to keep moisture away from the seals
    3. Have Kagome and work on improving the skywalkers (likely by extending their lifespan)
  3. Ask Kagome about the feasibility of making a seal which lets us hear conversations happening far away (so we could hear things from sky-observation)
  4. Work for Noburi on whatever mad science seal he wants (assuming it's within our capabilities)
    1. If Noburi has no seals he wants and Kagome thinks they're within his capabilities, work on sound amplification seals (seals to help observations from miles in the sky)
    2. If Noburi has no seals he wants and Kagome doesn't think we can handle sound amplification seals, research cooling seals (cool surroundings, turn water into ice)
  5. Have Mari and Keiko go to Tea in order to gather basic information on the current political situation, determine if Mountain has been obviously active in the regional political situation, determine the feasibility of acquiring a telescope, and determine if pirates exist.
    1. Provide plenty of skywalkers for the trip there, back, and while there.
    2. Provide seals for skybases for them to use on the mission (and make sure they're comfortable setting them up)
    3. Give the following priorities for their mission:
      1. Survive
      2. Remain undetected
      3. Return by the time Kagome thinks Skywalker improvements will be done or 3 weeks, whichever is first
      4. Determine global situation (e.g. are Leaf and Mist at war, is war likely)
      5. Determine if Mountain has made obvious moves (e.g. have there been an increase in ninja activity)
      6. Determine the feasibility of acquiring a telescope
      7. Determine if pirates exist
    4. Suggest the following as methods for acquiring the information
      1. Base out of a skybase in the middle of nowhere, only accessible by skywalkers
      2. Don't use skywalkers outside of getting to or from the secure base and emergencies
      3. Observe a small village, then impersonate people from that village visiting a larger town
  6. Determine if there's some way Keiko can use Pangolins to provide information transfer between the two groups of our party.
    1. If there is, use that to keep in touch.
 
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Not gonna lie, I really want to get our surveillance tech up to date, so we can have a scene where we return to Mountain in the midst of their power struggle, where Keiko walks down into the middle of a dispute. From the air. And just never explain to them how we did it.
 
Vecht said:
Would vote for Information Gathering, but I disagree that we should pay lip service to the idea of "doing something" -- infiltrating a random spot in Tea, although probably a good exercise, is unlikely to result in anything of much value otherwise, and introduces risk (although close to trivial). Main issues are opportunity costs, and possibility of unforseen issues (actual ninja in the area for unrelated reasons) leading to possible compromise. Again, risk is close to trivial, but I don't think it outweighs the possible benefits. I would probably vote for a good plan to just directly scout out Mountain, assuming we don't spend an inordinate amount of time doing so.
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The value I see us getting from infiltrating Tea is to confirm that many of the assumptions we make about the state of the world are true (no ninja war, Mountain hasn't done much, naval trade exists, we could raid pirates to get free stuff), and setting us up for our next operation (likely either raid pirates or observe Mountain). I will admit that there are significant opportunity costs to the plan you quoted. I think the Gathering Information and Seals plan might be more to your desires (since it should still get that information, but not have the opportunity costs of Noburi and Hazou doing non-research things).

Edit: the primary tradeoff in that version of the plan of course being that Hazou won't be with them, we the hivemind is cut off from the success of the operation.
 
Sound amplification, huh? I like that it's aimed at making skywalkers more useful, but it seems pretty impractical--you'd have to devise pretty good filters so that you weren't just getting noise, especially since you'd probably have to chain a bunch together if you were far up. And that's assuming the lowest one gets anything useful at all. I guess we could spend a little time trying them out at small scale, to see if the concept works?

I guess the idea with hot-air balloons is to have a way to resupply skytowers without using up skywalkers? Seems reasonable, but I feel like there ought to be better things we can do for Leaf prep. I'm not sure what that would be, though. Scouting out Mountain seems good, and it's not like we have to do research...

Ed: Propulsion seals would be #1 for sure, but dunno if Hazou could handle them without Kagome. Maybe makes more sense to have Kagome help Hazou get decent at skywalkers, and then Kagome does propulsion?


Sleeps Furiously said:
Instead of a small town, maybe Tonaki? It's pretty middling size, and if they haven't heard about Mountain, probably no one else outside of us/Leaf has. We've been there, so we probably don't need to scan it from the skies first, but it's close enough to be a base for scanning Mountain from the skies instead.

...Also, per @faflec, maybe stage it where we go to Tea when we've got some minimum level of improvement to skywalkers or if we haven't managed to get that level by one week.
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@Radvic what do you think of this bit? Seems reasonable to me; we'd be able to trawl for rumors re: Mountain as well.
 
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[X] Action Plan: Help From A Friend

Goals:
  1. Survive.
  2. Ensure the cooperation of the pangolin engineer.
  3. Make improvements.
Methods:

Try not to spend longer than a month on this plan, unless we would finish everything in it by running over slightly.
  • Hazou researches Cooling Seals (to make ice for the engineer) and Heating Seals (to make airships easier when we get around to them). If Noburi decides on a present, then that takes priority. Hazou also experiments with invisible ink seals.
  • Kagome upgrades the Skywalker Seal, improving duration and reliability. He tries to figure out a cartridge system for them (wooden inserts on our shoes for quick replacement, and possibly coating the seals in wax to waterproof them against clouds).
  • Kei and the engineer try to create designs and prototypes for a skybase that solves the logistical and technical issues involved. Kei also spends time looking into recruiting a diplomat, for the purposes of helping us with leaf. Just being able to consult experienced negotiators other than Mari would be immensely helpful, even if it is later concluded that having them at the table fighting our corner is infeasible (and if we can get them to the table, so much the better).
  • Noburi has fun being a mad scientist. He does whatever research he likes (he knows better than Hazou does here, after all). Hazou asks him to tell us if he discovers anything cool.
  • Mari does Mari stuff.
 
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Sleeps Furiously said:
Leather cases have also been mentioned for moisture proofing.
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Added to both the the plan you quoted and the second one I made.

Sleeps Furiously said:
If we leave Pandaa on the island with Kagome, then I believe that Panjandrum can reverse-summon her to the Sixth Path, then Pandaa can reverse-summon her to the island. Then they chain unsummon her to return her to her starting point. I'm not sure if that has to be timed, or if Keiko can ping them with summon attempts which they've coordinated ahead of time really mean reverse-summon me rather than answering the summons directly.
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That's basically what I think can happen, but I figured I'd leave it general to save space in the plan, encourage Keiko to think about how to solve more general problems than just "optimise this plan," and because I don't understand the specifics of how it would work.

Sleeps Furiously said:
Instead of a small town, maybe Tonaki? It's pretty middling size, and if they haven't heard about Mountain, probably no one else outside of us/Leaf has. We've been there, so we probably don't need to scan it from the skies first, but it's close enough to be a base for scanning Mountain from the skies instead.

If we need to acquire a telescope rather than henging one, though, we probably need to go to a larger port town instead, unless we happen to know of somewhere where people make them.
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I figure that these are all things that we are likely to do, but if we control Hazou and he's going on these missions, we can describe those steps after the initial venture. The small town recon is intended to be the lowest risk (but also lowest reward) thing we can do, so that we can then itterate upon the information we gather from there to make our higher risk higher reward information have lower risk. It's a part of a process, not the completed operation.

Sleeps Furiously said:
Also, per @faflec, maybe stage it where we go to Tea when we've got some minimum level of improvement to skywalkers or if we haven't managed to get that level by one week.
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That seems like a fair compromise. I've edited the plan accordingly.

Here's the updated Information Gathering Ops plan:
Radvic said:
[X] Action Plan: Information Gathering Ops

With decisions made, let's make progress on our goals, taking actions which will help us negotiate with Leaf better. This means improving skywalkers (Kagome), gathering current information on the world, and finding out about the situation in Mountain.

Methods:
  1. Coordinate efforts with the other genin to attempt to henge into lenses and/or mirrors such that we can make a basic telescope, preferably using clones
    1. Because extending our sight from skyplatforms is important
  2. Work on improving skywalkers
    1. Start by making wooden inserts to quickly replace the seals when they run out, and keep moisture away from them
    2. Look at making a leather case to keep moisture away from the seals
    3. Have Kagome stay on the island and work on improving the skywalkers (likely by extending their lifespan)
    4. Try to get a second version ready for the rest of the team's excursion into Tea wthin the next week
  3. Determine if we can use Pangolin Summoning some way to maintain some form of communication with Kagome.
  4. While waiting for skywalkers V 2.0, work for Noburi on whatever mad science seal he wants (assuming it's within our capabilities)
    1. If Noburi has no seals he wants and Kagome thinks they're within his capabilities, work on sound amplification seals (seals to help observations from miles in the sky)
    2. If Noburi has no seals he wants and Kagome doesn't think we can handle sound amplification seals, research cooling seals (cool surroundings, turn water into ice)
  5. After Kagome has made a second version of the skywalkers Have Mari, Keiko, Noburi, and Hazou go to Tea in order to gather information on the current political situation, acquire a telescope (if henge/clone doesn't work out), observe Mountain, and probably acquire more paper.
    1. Use skywalkers and skybases to get to the western coast of the Tea Pennensula. Once there, establish a sky-base far above the coast in the middle of nowhere for a base of operations: keep watch for sky-squids and ask Kagome all he knows about how best to defeat/repel them before we leave.
  6. Begin a basic infiltration of a small nobody town in Tea
    1. Don't use skywalkers or sky bases near the town (though keep skywalkers in our shoes in case of emergency)
    2. Begin by observing the town from afar (does it keep a guard? How many people live there? Does it get many visitors? Do the people look wealthy? What sorts of jobs or occupations are most likely to fit in?)
    3. After initial recon, retreat to our skybase to plan out a method of further infiltration or informational gathering
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Langevin said:
I guess the idea with hot-air balloons is to have a way to resupply skytowers without using up skywalkers? Seems reasonable, but I feel like there ought to be better things we can do for Leaf prep. I'm not sure what that would be, though. Scouting out Mountain seems good, and it's not like we have to do research...
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Hot air ballon is a precursor to the Zepplein/Airship, which enable a whole bunch of strategic capability. If Skybase aren't terrifying, then airships certainly are.

Think of it as an aircraft carrier from which Leaf can project its air force and launch land invasion, while all the while being a moving target.

Suddenly all the charka monster infested sea doesn't really mean anything to Leaf.
 
This is a test to see if my instance of CounterBot is functioning correctly. Please check that this includes any votes you have made, and report it to one of the QMs (preferably @eaglejarl so he can check what might have gone wrong) if any votes are missing.

CounterBot, version 1.5


Plan name: Setting Up for Leaf
Voters: @Enjou, @faflec, @fiirofa, @Inferno Vulpix, @Kiba, @Vecht
Num votes: 6

Plan name: Information Gathering Ops
Voters: @Oneiros43, @Radvic, @RideTheWalrus
Num votes: 3

Plan name: This Island Could Use A Lighthouse
Voters: @MadScientist, @RideTheWalrus, @Traiden
Num votes: 3

Plan name: Information Gathering and Seals
Voters: @Oneiros43, @Radvic
Num votes: 2

Plan name: Plan Developed Concept
Voters: @Enjou, @Vecht
Num votes: 2

Plan name: Hazou Training: None
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1

Plan name: Help From A Friend
Voters: @MadScientist
Num votes: 1

Plan name: Keiko Training: None
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1

Plan name: Noburi Training: None
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1

Plan name: Poll: (Meta) Stop with these polls before we go insane again.
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1

Plan name: Poll: (Timeframe) Pangolins first
Voters: @Veedrac
Num votes: 1

Plan name: Poll: (Timeframe) work on projects until the team feels our bargaining position is strong enough
Voters: @Oneiros43
Num votes: 1

Plan name: Training All: None
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1

Plan name: Village hidden in the Crater.
Voters: @Dark as Silver
Num votes: 1

Plan name: long term goals
Voters: @Oneiros43
Num votes: 1

Number of voters: 13
 
[X] Action Plan: Help From A Friend

I approve of not ignoring the skybase concepting.

@MadScientist - you may want to put in a timeframe for this plan though.
 
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