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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Sleeps Furiously said:
Not in the abstract, but I tend to agree with the people who feel there are other things we could work on in the short term that will do a better job of making the group attractive to Leaf.
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Hm. I can't see creating a small scale version of a hot air balloon taking more than a few days. By small scale I mean little more than a basket with a cloth tied atop, and working out how to get to seat the blanket such that it doesn't catch fire :p
 
Also, I very strongly want Hazou to spend some time reading Yumehara's Classical History -- Hazou needs to be able to to cite the guiding principles of Leaf when he negotiates with Jiraiya.

e: To be clear: Do I expect Hazou to be doing the majority of the negotiating? No.

However, I do expect that Jiraiya will ask Hazou, point-blank, what his priorities are, and being able to cite the founding beliefs of Leaf -- the Will of Fire -- precisely, and extending it to the rest of the world, will do him well there.
 
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Cariyaga said:
Hm. I can't see creating a small scale version of a hot air balloon taking more than a few days. By small scale I mean little more than a basket with a cloth tied atop, and working out how to get to seat the blanket such that it doesn't catch fire :p
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That was in the action plan, specifically to recreate the sky lanterns from the festival, and then to move on to experimentation with shapes, and then to making it bigger.

Enjou said:
I don't, but that's going to be a long term project and we're not going to complete it in a month or two.
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I need to specify when I considered it's good enough:

Once we got a good prototype going that can lift the lighest person on our team and can be steered and propelled, I am willing to call it complete for now.

Once we get to Konohagakure, we can continue its development where we left off.
 
Cariyaga said:
Also, I very strongly want Hazou to spend some time reading Yumehara's Classical History -- Hazou needs to be able to to cite the guiding principles of Leaf when he negotiates with Jiraiya.

e: To be clear: Do I expect Hazou to be doing the majority of the negotiating? No.

However, I do expect that Jiraiya will ask Hazou, point-blank, what his priorities are, and being able to cite the founding beliefs of Leaf -- the Will of Fire -- precisely, and extending it to the rest of the world, will do him well there.
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J: Alright Hazou, now can you tell me why this replica document has exactly nine clan head signatures?

H: Because this particular document is ridiculously out of date! Your office must have purchased it during the brief period in 874 After Sage after the Hyūga joined Konoha, but before the Aburame did.

J: ... partial credit.
 
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Kiba said:
I need to specify when I considered it's good enough:

Once we got a good prototype going that can lift the lighest person on our team and can be steered, I am willing to call it complete for now.

Once we get to Konohagakure, we can continue its development where we left off.
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I think that might take too long, and certainly won't be doable in a month. I don't think Hazou has the MecApt needed to get it to that point on his own, and we'll need the propulsion seals for steering and we don't know how long those will take to make. We may also not really have sufficient materials here on our island to build a prototype of that size either.
 
Enjou said:
I think that might take too long, and certainly won't be doable in a month. I don't think Hazou has the MecApt needed to get it to that point on his own, and we'll need the propulsion seals for steering and we don't know how long those will take to make. We may also not really have sufficient materials here on our island to build a prototype of that size either.
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Hm... do you think Mari would take offense to us asking how light she can henge? :p
 
We don't need a full prototype like that anyways. We just need enough of something to demonstrate the basic concept is doable - a small balloon thing with something tied to the bottom to show that hot air indeed rises and can lift some amount of weight, and explain the basic concept of skyships and that it is one of the research projects we want to work on for Leaf. Then explain how it would have massive economic and military benefits. If we have Heating Seals finished then we have one major step completed as that gives us a way to heat air. There are only three major seals needed for the entire concept to be workable - Storage Seals for weights to control altitude and to store cargo, Heating Seals to heat the air in the balloon, and Propulsion Seals to get it to move. Convenient controls will be needed for the Propulsion Seals as well, but that's part of the long run R&D effort.
 
@Kiba Re: Zeppelins

I'm not 100% on how the zeppelins are to be made, so I'd figure I'd just ask here. Do you think perpetual motion machines made to generate energy could be more valuable to study than heat-generating seals (in terms of Zeppelin building), and/or do you think our value (to Leaf) would be increased more for this and through secondary applications?
 
Enjou said:
We don't need a full prototype like that anyways. We just need enough of something to demonstrate the basic concept is doable - a small balloon thing with something tied to the bottom to show that hot air indeed rises and can lift some amount of weight, and explain the basic concept of skyships and that it is one of the research projects we want to work on for Leaf. Then explain how it would have massive economic and military benefits. If we have Heating Seals finished then we have one major step completed as that gives us a way to heat air. There are only three major seals needed for the entire concept to be workable - Storage Seals for weights to control altitude and to store cargo, Heating Seals to heat the air in the balloon, and Propulsion Seals to get it to move. Convenient controls will be needed for the Propulsion Seals as well, but that's part of the long run R&D effort.
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OK, I'll just simplify the project further.

faflec said:
@Kiba Re: Zeppelins

I'm not 100% on how the zeppelins are to be made, so I'd figure I'd just ask here. Do you think perpetual motion machines made to generate energy could be more valuable to study than heat-generating seals (in terms of Zeppelin building), and/or do you think our value (to Leaf) would be increased more for this and through secondary applications?
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I am not planning to make a full blown zeppelin.

You also need to give some justification as to why Hazō would invent the idea of a perpetual motion machine. To date, Hazō has little reason to think otherwise.

Right now, it's more important to implement prototypes and ideas to whet the appetite of Jiraiya than it is to invent something that's more world changing than what Hazō and Jiraiya thought.
 
faflec said:
@Kiba Re: Zeppelins

I'm not 100% on how the zeppelins are to be made, so I'd figure I'd just ask here. Do you think perpetual motion machines made to generate energy could be more valuable to study than heat-generating seals (in terms of Zeppelin building), and/or do you think our value (to Leaf) would be increased more for this and through secondary applications?
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I don't think we can make perpetual motion machines unless we can convert work to chakra and automatically remake seals from said work.
 
Kiba said:
I am not planning to make a full blown zeppelin.

You also need to give some justification as to why Hazō would invent the idea of a perpetual motion machine. To date, Hazō has little reason to think otherwise.

Right now, it's more important to implement prototypes and ideas to whet the appetite of Jiraiya than it is to invent something that's more world changing than what Hazō and Jiraiya thought.
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Point to that, yet I still cannot shake the desire to create a long-living energy generator that triggers an Industrial Revolution.
 
So, something else we should consider, though this is more for while we're in Leaf: We need to make an effort to keep in contact with the civilian side of affairs. Talk to merchants, have everyone make at least one civilian friend, etc. Need to remember what we're fighting for.

faflec said:
Point to that, yet I still cannot shake the desire to create a long-living energy generator that triggers an Industrial Revolution.
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Seconded. TBH, propulsion seals are all we'd really need for that. Build a waterless water wheel, experiment with magnets, and bam, we've got electricity. ...not that I expect that to be an easy thing.
 
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...Do you think that electricity would be a way we could trigger seals? With electricity... we could make seal-based computers.
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Have we ever seen a windmill or watermill?

Edit: Kagome has.
eaglejarl said:
"For a little while," Kagome said. "Then they get prosperous. There's no monsters to attack the fields, so the people who were on guard duty can shift to growing food. With good medical care people aren't sick as much, so there's more labor to spend on food production. The town starts to generate a surplus, so they can trade with other towns, transform excess food into other forms of wealth like better tools. The new tools make their labor more efficient, so it takes fewer people to do the same amount of work. That frees up more labor for other things...maybe they build a windmill, buy a loom, start planting non-survival crops like medical plants. Caravans start stopping there more often, since the town has wealth to buy with and goods to sell. Other people hear about this great new town and they move there."
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@Kiba If you want an excuse to create energy-producing machines ask Kagome what a windmill is, since he's apparently seen one. That's an excuse to make seals that replicate the effects, and transition them into other methods of energy generation.
 
faflec said:
@Kiba If you want an excuse to create energy-producing machines ask Kagome what a windmill is, since he's apparently seen one. That's an excuse to make seals that replicate the effects, and transition them into other methods of energy generation.
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I was thinking of using the engineer to create a large underground room to house a wind tunnel, so that we could have more controlled experiments.
 
The more I think about this, the crazier this idea seems and the more I want to do it. We should see what Kagome thinks about offloading computation to seals (and figure out a better way to phrase that), though this will be a very long term project.

We can still use physical substrate to transport the data, but stuff like offloading the computation to seals rather than processing it manually, providing I/O with electricity, maybe even powering it with it (the seals convert the electricity to chakra, maybe? ...Not sure that's possible.)...

e: I feel an imbalance in the force. As if our QMs all shuddered in synchronicity.
 
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