- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Thanks for this.
As far as I'm aware, Counterbog and PlanBot are the only ones in existence that do approval voting.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
As far as I'm aware, Counterbog and PlanBot are the only ones in existence that do approval voting.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
A source of ETERNAL TORMENT unto my poor and withered soul, tbh. Fuck FPTP with a rusty chainsaw.
- Location
- Yes.
You must really hate rusty chainsaws, don't you.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
One of them killed my family. I have sworn eternal vengeance.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
"People don't kill people. Rusty chainsaws kill people."
- Location
- Yes.
We should deport them back to rusty chainsaw-ville!
What kind of timeframe would you suggest?
- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
- Location
- ...Nice try.
Wax.
Beeswax is soft, so rubbing it on a seal should give us a thin layer of hydrophobic material over the top. I'm given to understand chakra adhesion activates skywalkers, so a thin layer of wax shouldn't affect that. Wood is porous, so when we make the inserts, rub wax on them so the moisture doesn't get through.
This should be within IC knowledge in more than a few ways. Hazou is aware of water-proof/tight/resistant cases for carrying important diplomatic documents and it's not like their construction is a secret. Or maybe he's thought about Noburi's barrel. (I'm ignorant of the rules here: can we have Noburi—or Kagome, who also has better IC justification—have the insight?) Or maybe he's seen anyone cook at any moment and groks some version of "hydrophobic, hydrophilic." Or maybe it came up at some point in his reading.
A lot of people seem to think about a month is good.
I'm just going to ask this question again since it was never really addressed - what exactly does Kagome do to rain-proof his various trap seals? If water damage can make the seal fail, then wouldn't his ring of traps around our camp fail whenever it rains? I would think that this is the kind of problem sealmasters likely figured out long ago.
- Location
- ?
Could test it.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Slytherins gonna Slytherin fosho
Oh good lord
- Location
- Yes.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What's wrong with trying to get 80 tac mov?
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
You guys are going to turn this in to Ninja Bunny Quest and there's nothing we can do about it
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Speaking of that we should find the bunny summoning scrollYou guys are going to turn this in to Ninja Bunny Quest and there's nothing we can do about it
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
You guys are going to turn this in to Ninja Bunny Quest and there's nothing we can do about it
Zabuza sneaks inside the base of the Cold Stone Killers, past the hundreds of meters of highly lethal traps. As he clears the last layer of traps, he gains a glimpse of his prey, unaware of his presence as they play Strategic Dominance. He slowly approaches, getting within range of striking, when suddenly the Cold Stone Killers shift their sitting position to cross-legged, and hold their hands in a cheesy meditation pose. As soon as they do so, they inexplicably defy gravity and launch upwards with no visible propulsion. As Zabuza registers this impossibility, the Cold Stone Killers continue upwards out of sight. Zabuza blinks, rubs his eyes, then shakes his head and starts going about making camp, in the off chance they decided to come back from the sky.
Meanwhile, in the climate-controlled skybase, the members of Team Uplift look down with their telescope, more to recover the state of their Strategic Domination game than anything else.
- Location
- ...Nice try.
Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes.
Rihaku
The Internet
Does the team have any idea of how much they can roughly expect to get out of Konoha with their current assets? Skywalkers seem like a ridiculously huge deal compared to everything else. Compare to the Silence Mine seal which Jiraiya provided you - +3 to Stealth in a limited area vs +20 to TacMove, +15 to Stealth, and fiat untrackability? Is it realistic to expect that anything you work on within the next month or even two months will contribute a bargaining chip even 2% as dramatic as the Skywalkers?
The Tacmove bonus alone gives Leaf jounin squads complete superiority of maneuver over jounin of other nations, to say nothing of three-dimensional movement. A Leaf jounin with 60 dice + 20 Skywalker dice has decent odds of dodging even an 80-dice S-rank attack (Tsunade has low 80s Medicine). That Leaf jounin basically has nothing to fear from a Mist jounin's attack of merely 60 dice. A Leaf chunin can dodge half of a Mist jounin's attacks, a strong genin can dodge chunin attacks.
The applications in direct combat are immense and yet only represent a fraction of the seals' strategic implications. Every Leaf team equipped with these needs never fear an enemy team of equal rank - their capacity to control the terms of engagement via +20 Tacmove is a full tier above that of their counterparts.
Were I Jiraiya, I'd evaluate the party's worthiness like so:
1. Skywalker Seals
<Five Power Gaps>
2. Future services of Skywalker Seals' inventor
2a. Pangolin Summoner
3. Three useful bloodline limits
<Power Gap>
4. Sealmaster Jounin
5. Infiltration / Combat Jounin
<Power Gap>
6. Three Genin
This is like a scientist negotiating for asylum with, "Well, I invented this atom bomb and also this potato wedger!" No one cares about the potato wedger. If it's something even Skywalkers can't buy, Leaf won't sell it. The nation that fully capitalizes on it first will have an immense first-mover advantage. Reliable human-scale three-dimensional movement is not something even modern technology can produce, so there are likely dozens of uses we haven't even thought of.
Beyond even the strategic effects, consider the eventual economic and logistical implications. How much more ground can Konoha patrols cover with skyward lines of sight and no need to traverse difficult terrain? How many ninja does that free up for revenue-generating missions? How many more difficult missions can Leaf teams take now that they can disengage with impunity from ninja of the same level? Genin delivery teams are now 200% more productive since they can bypass ground traffic, how does this reduction in shipping costs stimulate trade?
If a walking extinction event like the Kyuubi comes calling, even genin can just disperse and walk above the cloud cover. Even given its limitations, this is a technology far more important than any single weapon of war, even the nuke. It's more comparable to steam power or the very concept of industrialization. A society that has fully exploited this technology begins to verge on the Outside Context Problem level for its former peers.
---
Given that Wakahisa, Kurosawa, and Mori are all genin, their value as Bloodline carriers far exceeds their worth as field ninja. It would be incredibly stupid for Leaf to send anyone except possibly Mari on field missions for the forseeable future. Even in the event of full scale war, the marginal benefit of a single genin, even a talented summoner like Keiko, is pretty much irrelevant compared to the potential she represents for Leaf. Especially when her entire array of combat summons is unlikely to provide even a modest marginal edge to Jiraiya's extant army of toads.
Rather than necessarily focusing on assets which may not constitute even 1% of the Skywalkers' worth, the best use of the thread's time may be thinking up ways to minimize the costs of your proposal to Leaf. If you are able to negotiate anywhere near the Skywalkers' actual worth, that really ought to take care of all reasonable demands.
Outright accepting three Bloodline Limit missing-nin of the Mist would be politically costly for Leaf, but even massive deterioration in Leaf-Mist relations should be well within the margin of value provided by Skywalkers, in much the same way that nuclear-armed America was never in any danger of actually losing to nuke-less Japan. America was already stronger than Japan and the nukes made that advantage all but unassailable.
However, there is absolutely no reason Leaf has to accept the party as missing-nin of the Mist. As mentioned in my earlier plan (several hundred pages back), there is no reason for the party not to simply be inserted as Leaf civilians / academy graduates / client state ninjas that were simply 'always there,' especially in a village as populous as Hidden Leaf. Classify the party's identity to all but the Hokage / Jiraiya and present two hidden layers of "true identity" above that to satisfy inquisitive Clans / Danzo, and you've got a fait accompli.
While an operation like this would hardly be free, the political aftershocks would be relatively nonexistent - only the Hokage and Jiraiya would actually know the true magnitude of the people being taken in. Skywalkers are probably worth something like 200 S-Rank missions and you're asking for one noncombat A-Rank mission's worth of effort in exchange. Were your bargaining position less awful, you would probably be able to extract major strategic concessions from Leaf to get the Seal.
In summary:
A) It does not seem like any effort of a month or two months will produce assets that are more than a rounding error compared to the value of Skywalkers
B) Therefore, focus on decreasing the negative consequences of your requests upon Leaf and on improving your negotiation tactics.
I know Noburi and Mari are probably going to work on B) already, and hopefully the winning plan will have Keiko do her best to contract with the best Pangolin negotiator you can secure access to, but it's probably best for Hazou also to devote his time (or at least plan length) towards this as well. Kagome is likely best used polishing the Skywalker since increasing the value of that seal is the only way to significantly improve your value proposition.
The Tacmove bonus alone gives Leaf jounin squads complete superiority of maneuver over jounin of other nations, to say nothing of three-dimensional movement. A Leaf jounin with 60 dice + 20 Skywalker dice has decent odds of dodging even an 80-dice S-rank attack (Tsunade has low 80s Medicine). That Leaf jounin basically has nothing to fear from a Mist jounin's attack of merely 60 dice. A Leaf chunin can dodge half of a Mist jounin's attacks, a strong genin can dodge chunin attacks.
The applications in direct combat are immense and yet only represent a fraction of the seals' strategic implications. Every Leaf team equipped with these needs never fear an enemy team of equal rank - their capacity to control the terms of engagement via +20 Tacmove is a full tier above that of their counterparts.
Were I Jiraiya, I'd evaluate the party's worthiness like so:
1. Skywalker Seals
<Five Power Gaps>
2. Future services of Skywalker Seals' inventor
2a. Pangolin Summoner
3. Three useful bloodline limits
<Power Gap>
4. Sealmaster Jounin
5. Infiltration / Combat Jounin
<Power Gap>
6. Three Genin
This is like a scientist negotiating for asylum with, "Well, I invented this atom bomb and also this potato wedger!" No one cares about the potato wedger. If it's something even Skywalkers can't buy, Leaf won't sell it. The nation that fully capitalizes on it first will have an immense first-mover advantage. Reliable human-scale three-dimensional movement is not something even modern technology can produce, so there are likely dozens of uses we haven't even thought of.
Beyond even the strategic effects, consider the eventual economic and logistical implications. How much more ground can Konoha patrols cover with skyward lines of sight and no need to traverse difficult terrain? How many ninja does that free up for revenue-generating missions? How many more difficult missions can Leaf teams take now that they can disengage with impunity from ninja of the same level? Genin delivery teams are now 200% more productive since they can bypass ground traffic, how does this reduction in shipping costs stimulate trade?
If a walking extinction event like the Kyuubi comes calling, even genin can just disperse and walk above the cloud cover. Even given its limitations, this is a technology far more important than any single weapon of war, even the nuke. It's more comparable to steam power or the very concept of industrialization. A society that has fully exploited this technology begins to verge on the Outside Context Problem level for its former peers.
---
Given that Wakahisa, Kurosawa, and Mori are all genin, their value as Bloodline carriers far exceeds their worth as field ninja. It would be incredibly stupid for Leaf to send anyone except possibly Mari on field missions for the forseeable future. Even in the event of full scale war, the marginal benefit of a single genin, even a talented summoner like Keiko, is pretty much irrelevant compared to the potential she represents for Leaf. Especially when her entire array of combat summons is unlikely to provide even a modest marginal edge to Jiraiya's extant army of toads.
Rather than necessarily focusing on assets which may not constitute even 1% of the Skywalkers' worth, the best use of the thread's time may be thinking up ways to minimize the costs of your proposal to Leaf. If you are able to negotiate anywhere near the Skywalkers' actual worth, that really ought to take care of all reasonable demands.
Outright accepting three Bloodline Limit missing-nin of the Mist would be politically costly for Leaf, but even massive deterioration in Leaf-Mist relations should be well within the margin of value provided by Skywalkers, in much the same way that nuclear-armed America was never in any danger of actually losing to nuke-less Japan. America was already stronger than Japan and the nukes made that advantage all but unassailable.
However, there is absolutely no reason Leaf has to accept the party as missing-nin of the Mist. As mentioned in my earlier plan (several hundred pages back), there is no reason for the party not to simply be inserted as Leaf civilians / academy graduates / client state ninjas that were simply 'always there,' especially in a village as populous as Hidden Leaf. Classify the party's identity to all but the Hokage / Jiraiya and present two hidden layers of "true identity" above that to satisfy inquisitive Clans / Danzo, and you've got a fait accompli.
While an operation like this would hardly be free, the political aftershocks would be relatively nonexistent - only the Hokage and Jiraiya would actually know the true magnitude of the people being taken in. Skywalkers are probably worth something like 200 S-Rank missions and you're asking for one noncombat A-Rank mission's worth of effort in exchange. Were your bargaining position less awful, you would probably be able to extract major strategic concessions from Leaf to get the Seal.
In summary:
A) It does not seem like any effort of a month or two months will produce assets that are more than a rounding error compared to the value of Skywalkers
B) Therefore, focus on decreasing the negative consequences of your requests upon Leaf and on improving your negotiation tactics.
I know Noburi and Mari are probably going to work on B) already, and hopefully the winning plan will have Keiko do her best to contract with the best Pangolin negotiator you can secure access to, but it's probably best for Hazou also to devote his time (or at least plan length) towards this as well. Kagome is likely best used polishing the Skywalker since increasing the value of that seal is the only way to significantly improve your value proposition.
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