Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Wiggy · Aug 16, 2023

Saidoro said:
The local magic system is the product of Old Ones machinery, most notably the polar gates

So, if a wizard was completely isolated from the Winds, like in the room of utter neutrality or deep underground or something, do we think they could pull energy directly from the warp psyker style?

Zero Gravitas · Aug 16, 2023

Jyn Ryvia said:
their default, in canon, is zero respect and very very resultant to give respect even to people that have well-earned it.

Felix actually started to get respect from dwarfs in the novels after a few adventures with Gotrek (Gotrek was actually more cantankerous than most dwarfs - possibly due to the Axe).

That said dwarfs really start at zero respect if you don't have a track record - Mathilde avoided that due to her position and later on performance in battle. Even as a Dwarf friend Kragg barely talked to her until she repeatedly proved herself.

Overall the Dawi are extremely hard to impress but fair once you've done so.

Valmond · Aug 16, 2023

In fairness, Kragg shows zero respect to average living ancestor.

NavySeel · Aug 16, 2023

Valmond said:
In fairness, Kragg shows zero respect to average living ancestor.

He shows massive respect he might even acknowledge their existence.

Nerdasaurus Rex · Aug 16, 2023

Boney said:
From his vantage point, Kragg sighed.

It wasn't disappointment. Disappointment would require that he expected better.
It wasn't weariness. Truth be told, he felt more energized than he had in centuries.
It was merely the sound of a Dwarf that has discovered yet more evidence that he was completely correct in expecting the world to be untidy.

Kragg can't be disappointed in others because he never expected anything from them in the first place.

BurnNote · Aug 16, 2023

Wiggy said:
So, if a wizard was completely isolated from the Winds, like in the room of utter neutrality or deep underground or something, do we think they could pull energy directly from the warp psyker style?

I think once they've accumulated some marks, Ulgu also gets produced in the soul? That's part of why stuff like the mushrooms don't help past a certain point*, and why wizards can't do elementalism.

*You also become better at drawing it from the enviroment, and working with what you have. But if your soul is Ulgu, and Mathilde isn't afraid of permanently losing bits of her soul in the null room, then it's likely souls regenerate any lost Ulgu. That might be dependant on drawnig in external Ulgu though.
Man, I can just hear someone go "Hey, what if we (pay some poor sod with CF to) camp in the room of utter neutrality for some weeks to see if souls regenerate/create Ulgu from nothing. Surely a lack of soul would lead to clear health problems" and Boney pointing out that other wizards don't want to risk their souls for Mathilde's curiosity, and also spending weeks in a single isolated room is bound to have deletrious effect on health, mental or otherwise, completly independant of how it effects the soul.

NavySeel · Aug 16, 2023

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Kragg can't be disappointed in others because he never expected anything from them in the first place.

You know, I wonder if part of this is why he gets along with Mathilde of all people. She's an Umgi and a Wizard at that, his expectations were literally as low as could be, but she gets consistently pretty impressive results.

Especially when you add in Mathilde's age.

I'm just imagining Kragg expects achievements on the level Mathilde has from Dwarfs her age... who are barely even actually adults.

Tobtorp · Aug 16, 2023

NavySeel said:
You know, I wonder if part of this is why he gets along with Mathilde of all people. She's an Umgi and a Wizard at that, his expectations were literally as low as could be, but she gets consistently pretty impressive results.

Especially when you add in Mathilde's age.

I'm just imagining Kragg expects achievements on the level Mathilde has from Dwarfs her age... who are barely even actually adults.

Personally I do think the dwarfs understand that we don't live that long and that everything we do is in a bit of a hurry. So reasonable expectations are set for little dwarfs.

But that also means that dwarfs probably have no clue what the normal progression for a human should look like. You became a master craftsman (in human standards) at 60? That's good, right?
She found another karak, but she already reconquered one before hand so maybe that's normal?

deathofrats0808 · Aug 16, 2023

Wiggy said:
So, if a wizard was completely isolated from the Winds, like in the room of utter neutrality or deep underground or something, do we think they could pull energy directly from the warp psyker style?

Boney's said Wizards carry some amount of their Winds with them, hence why they can cast spells inside the other Colleges (but are at a huge disadvantage compared to the Wizards of the College).

Wiggy · Aug 16, 2023

deathofrats0808 said:
Boney's said Wizards carry some amount of their Winds with them, hence why they can cast spells inside the other Colleges (but are at a huge disadvantage compared to the Wizards of the College).

Yes, but that's trained behavior. I'm just wondering if wizards can pull undiluted warp energy like a psyker or if that's just not possible in Fantasy's metaphysics.

I mean, Slann predate the planet, so they and the Old Ones presumably did *something* before the winds.

ReImagined · Aug 16, 2023

Wiggy said:
Yes, but that's trained behavior. I'm just wondering if wizards can pull undiluted warp energy like a psyker or if that's just not possible in Fantasy's metaphysics.

I mean, Slann predate the planet, so they and the Old Ones presumably did *something* before the winds.

Wizards can poke holes in reality, and that'd grant access to the warp, but then you have the problem of having poked a hole into reality.

Boney said:
It could be. It's actually not that difficult to open portals to the Warp. The hard bit is closing them again. The typical way to accomplish this is to kill whoever opened it and tell everyone to stay away from that general area for a century or so.

deathofrats0808 · Aug 16, 2023

Wiggy said:
Yes, but that's trained behavior. I'm just wondering if wizards can pull undiluted warp energy like a psyker or if that's just not possible in Fantasy's metaphysics.

I mean, Slann predate the planet, so they and the Old Ones presumably did *something* before the winds.

I suspect it isn't possible, although it depends on author.

Slann do predate the planet, but also the Old Ones could have just built the gates before doing magic.

Sa'kage · Aug 16, 2023

Isn't the whole purpose of the gates to transform the energies into the winds? In the closest story we've gotten so far, the gates were transforming the chaotic energies of the aether into the magical energies we call the winds.

Which, while they can still miscast and be bad vibes, they are a lot less dubious then pure chaotic energy. This is also partly the issue the Ulthuan star dragons have with the wind dragons, since the winds are bound to the polar gate, and thus the planet meaning the Star dragons look down on the wind dragon for essentially "locking" themself to a single planet.

We don't fully know the pre-planet arrival of warhammer fantasy, but if it's precursor is anything like warhammer 40k, it might mean that all you can rely on elsewhere is chaotic energy(or basically Dhar). The planet seems to basically be a way of counteracting the energies of the chaos god, and by extension the aether through mortal(biological weapons), Gods(deific interface) or transformation(The polar gates).

Nerdasaurus Rex · Aug 16, 2023

My theory is that the Old Ones were spinning Aether into Winds long before they colonised the world, and that there may even be more than eight winds, but they picked the ones that were most useful for them and their experiments. That's why Ulgu is called the "Sword of Tlanxla"—Tlanxla must have been an Old One who built the machine that creates Ulgu.

BeepSmile · Aug 16, 2023

BurnNote said:
Hey, that was just a coincidence. How dare you accuse poor Ranald on such a basis!

Ranald is a good criminal and would never engage in such unethical actions like mail fraud!

That Ronald though... I don't like the look of him.
His eyes are too close together.

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Kragg can't be disappointed in others because he never expected anything from them in the first place.

He's not disappointed, just angry.

Zero Gravitas · Aug 16, 2023

Tobtorp said:
Personally I do think the dwarfs understand that we don't live that long and that everything we do is in a bit of a hurry. So reasonable expectations are set for little dwarfs.

Normal progression for humans is going to be... (on average) pretty disappointing - at least without outliers like Mathilde or Sigmar.

Even normal progression for dwarfs is going to be barely acceptable with a lot of grumbling that things went better x centuries ago. Dwarfs seem to have a fairly high skill floor and a lot of hard to ascend steps until a dwarf becomes worthy of being considered a Master in their respective craft: and even this level is going to be considered as worse than Golden Age Mastery.

This makes humans who break records and do stuff that's really impressive by the standards of the Karaz Ankor really stand out.

Simon_Jester · Aug 16, 2023

Boney said:
There's an argument to be made that Elves get more guff than Dwarves in the wider fandom because they're less traditionally masculine than Dwarves, but a) I don't think SV is a seething hotbed of those kinds of beliefs...

I think SV likes dwarves better than elves for a different complex of reasons.

It's not that they're manlier (the beards and ale and so on are liked because they are dwarven).

It's that they're:

1) "High-tech" for the setting, fixated on craftsmanship, and surrounded by big infrastructure.
2) According of high respect for craftsmanship and material achievement.
3) Usually on the defensive against genuinely frightening enemies.
4) Thus usually minding their own business until something attacks them, except when they get mad over
5) Being obsessively vindictive about often petty things.

And...

1) SV is technophilic and likes big infrastructure, so they like that.
2) While SV tends to spit on the word 'meritocratic,' they sure as hell prefer it to the alternative, so the respect matters.
3) SV likes to not have mixed feelings about whether its viewpoint characters are the good guys, so if Group X is facing a Group Y that's genuinely unlikeable (without needing fascist coding to make Group Y seem that way) then it helps SV to like Group X.
4) Again, SV likes to not have mixed feelings and often does not cope well with moral ambiguity, as it triggers morality debates and conflicts over who accuses who of self-righteousness. So a fundamentally 'defensive' faction that can usually be imagined as not having started shit is preferred.
5) Cynically, SV contains a lot of people who, while they may be trying to keep it in check, hold a fucking grudge, and I suspect a lot of them identify with dwarves a bit because of that alone.

=========================================================

If dwarves were mostly feminine-presenting, but still checked off all those five checkboxes, I think they'd be if anything MORE popular on SV.

dinomannitro6 · Aug 17, 2023

Boney said:
If someone could be a threat to you, give them a stake in your success. It's a very trader-y way of doing things, but you can't deny its effectiveness.

Heh, a lesson from Wilhelmina that we've been putting to good use in Laurelorn

LawsOfRobotics · Aug 17, 2023

This is a list of spells that Boney has said Mathilde can try to make. I have organized the list by grouping similar spells and sorting by when ideas were suggested. Please bring any spells that you feel should be added to this list to my attention.

Word of Boney relevant to spell creation:

Boney said:
Warrior of Fog is an explicit spell creation trait and can be used to create spells in a fairly wide sphere. Other traits can also be used but to a much narrower extent, and can be completely incompatible with Ulgu resulting in no possible spells. Warrior of Fog could be stretched to cover moving through terrain that would otherwise be considered impassable, which wouldn't have been allowed if it was a non-mystical trait that just represented a knack for battlefield scouting. Xeno-Affinity can be used to make a spell that would make people not notice if she's missing subconscious cultural cues because that's directly Xeno-Afiinityish and Ulgu-y.

Boney said:
If an Amber Wizard had a staff with a bonus to canine spells, they could create a Dark Hound based spell that receives that bonus even though they're only canine shaped. Them being shaped the way they are would make it very straightforward for an Amber Wizard (though not any other flavour of Wizard) to impose a canine nature onto them. Similarly, Mathilde can get up to Staff of Mistery shenanigans with an Apparition that only has the appearance of fog or mist or whatever.

mmgaballah said:
would it be possible to downscale Okkam's Mindrazor from a battle magic tier mass army buff to a fiendishly complex single person or self use only buff spell ?

Boney said:
It seems unlikely. The conceptual underpinning of the spell is probably something to do with the dramatic effects of morale on the battlefield, which wouldn't be easily transferrable to one-on-one combat.

Damage spells:

chocolote12 said:
@BoneyM, also, thoughts on Shadow Knives; during our training we were having trouble with the Shadow Knives spell because they all came out looking like swords instead of knives. Was this an issue because they were harder to throw, or because it meant the spell wasn't stable or something and if we tried to use them for anything they'd cause us to mess up somehow? Also, about how long do our knives last when we hold onto them instead of throwing them? Would it be feasible to make a single really big shadow knife like we were doing to take advantage of our mastery, or could we come up with a variant on the spell to do this, using our Mastery as a creation-trait?

Boney said:
Swords possess many fine qualities, but aerodynamic they ain't. The knives last as long as Mathilde holds and sustains them. And a theoretical shadowsword would not be able to do anything that Branulhune or a shadowknife couldn't do better.
Formalizing a mastery into a new spell is sometimes possible but always unreliable and tricky.

chocolote12 said:
Well, it sounds like the start of a way to pass on a hypothetical teleporting sword style. 'Just' rework the spell until the wizard can basically flicker whether or not they're holding one, and I think it would have most of the properties of wielding Branulhune; ignoring most armor and doing silly lightsaber tricks is what would make the style unique, the anti-magic debuff is more of a personal bonus.

Boney said:
Yes, that's a plausible line of research.

Mopman43 said:
Could we make a choking fog? Particularly selectively choking?

Boney said:
That's viable.

Ericwinter said:
So I was glancing through the earlier chapters again on a whim, and I caught sight of this comment. Apparently this was the miscast that first summoned the Wisdom's Asp to hunt us, and it got me thinking. Acidic fog sounds really, really useful. @BoneyM would it be possible to invent a spell like that? Maybe something like Burning shadows, but with fog instead?

Boney said:
It only melted candles. You can try to codify that effect into a spell if you wanted. That said, you could also try to create a foggy variation on Burning Shadows.

TotallyNotEvil said:
@BoneyM Could the proposed Cloudkill spell take a vial of something nasty to make it, well, nastier? Given the connection with Burning Shadows, maybe Black Lotus? An optional material component.

Boney said:
Not without making the spell require a component to work off.

Sensing and detection spells:

Quest said:
Could we create an ulgu radar spell? It's based in how we achieved our night vision by observing the natural flow of ulgu.
What if sent say a controlled wave of ulgu somewhere, could we observe how it reacts to things to understand what is there?

Boney said:
It's possible but it would take some time and experimentation to get Ulgu to return reliable and useful information instead of reacting differently based on the emotions of the individuals it bounces off.

Boney said:
Two possible spells: physical ping that sees any physical object link a sonar ping, or a soul ping that would bring up anything capable of feeling confusion.

Lightwhispers said:
Sensory Mist. Creates and spreads a fine, almost imperceptible mist, which allows the caster to sense everything it touches. Related to the Ulgu radar idea already approved, but operates over a longer time period, using a physical medium.

Boney said:
Viable.

Andres said:
@BoneyM, could we use our Windsage trait to invent a Preysight or perhaps even Dark Vision spell?

Boney said:
You could try.

Tzeentch said:
Would a battlefield spell that helpfully highlights enemy combatants by, I dunno maybe attaching a bunch of Marsh Lights to them, be something that Mathilde could create? (I'd assume so seeing as this spell idea (Unlike admittedly almost all other spells we have suggested thus far) actually follows the description of Warrior of Fog to the letter with the whole ''revealing troop movements'', either way I'd thought it couldn't hurt to ask)

Boney said:
Viable.

Battlefield obfuscation spells:

Sinsystems said:
On that note @BoneyM I have to ask when it comes to theoretical Fog of War spells how impactful would a spell have to be to qualify for Battle Magic status. Like for instance if the Spell was just "Summon Fog Bank" or would it be "Summon Fog Bank that your army can see through without any issue"

Boney said:
You could be able to achieve something similar to a mundane fog bank to cover a significant chunk of a battlefield without reaching the level of Battle Magic, but manipulating the perception of hundreds at a time can be expected to be Battle Magic. But the power level as well as any quirks, limitations or drawbacks of a given spell would depend on rolls made while creating it.

thamuzz said:
A few questions about spell design. Ultimate goal of the questions is trying to figure out how feasible designing a spell that causes the enemy to incorrectly estimate the size/composition of an army would be.
1. Do we have an idea of the rough difficulty (ballpark DC range) and time it takes to deliberately develop a spell of a given complexity? (This assumes that the spell idea is viable for us to develop in the first place)
1.1. Petty/Simple
1.2. Relatively Simple
1.3. Moderately Complex
1.4. Fiendishly Difficult
2. Assuming all other things are equal, does developing spells based on existing spells influence this? For instance, if we developed precursor spells at lower complexities, would that reduce the DC/action cost of the final spell?

Boney said:
You're trying to change the perception of one half of an entire battlefield to the other half of an entire battlefield. That's battle magic.

thamuzz said:
The thing I'm imagining would be specifically designed to screw with scouts. So you enchant a group so that the first X* hostiles(?)** who (see them/try to count them) will misjudge their numbers by up to an order of magnitude. It would be something you cast on a group every day while marching towards an enemy stronghold so they're not sure if they're facing a force of 100 or 10,000. Maybe add some restrictions so that it becomes less effective in clear conditions.

Boney said:
That spell would need to be cast on the observers, not the ones being observed. Otherwise you'd need a mass-scale long-term illusion which would be battle magic.

DarkLight140 said:
This is actually the seed of a really interesting idea! What if we made a variation of Eye of the Beholder which, instead of targeting an item and the concept of value, targeted a person(/group) and the concepts of danger/importance? So instead of an illusion which makes something look cheap or valuable, we get an illusion which makes a person look harmless or dangerous. Normal knights could look like light cavalry scouts or terrifying demigryph riders, capable but unexceptional soldiers could look like champions or terrified conscripts, an Elector Count could be concealed within the ranks, and so forth. This seems like a very solid piece of logical development that plays directly into our Fog of War trait. It could be developed into either a battle magic scale spell that gets used on entire units, or a much lesser scale spell targeting a single individual at a time. @BoneyM, a review of this spell idea?

Boney said:
Entirely plausible.

Codex said:
@BoneyM I belive you already approved this spell idea, but I can't find the post, so can you comment on its eligibility?
I'm thinking of a spell that is essentially Eye of the Beholder, but applies to people using the Fog of War trait. Make someone (or a group of people) look more or less threatning using similar concepts as EotB.

Boney said:
I believe my comment was along the lines of 'yes, but at the scale of entire units it'd be battle magic'.

kingreaper said:
@BoneyM would this count as a Warrior of Fog spell:
Mathilde's Incarnate Shadow Technique
Creates an illusionary copy of you out of thick mist moves independently. It moves extremely fast and attempts to avoid being directly spotted, while still remaining somewhat in view - always in the corner of someone's eye.
This spell ends at dawn or if the shadow is struck by any form of attack.
Essentially a spell to generate false-positives in the guards, putting them on edge when nothing is there or sending them searching in the wrong direction.

Boney said:
Yes.

lancelot said:
Also something I like to call 'Army of Masks' where you make your army look like another group's army of similar size.

Boney said:
Scaled-up illusion, plausible.

lancelot said:
What about having it ape the army it was copied from just put it ahead of the other army or have it stand on top of an area that is horribly trapped, etc?

Boney said:
Having it copy the original is plausible.

Alliterate said:
Sounds can carry oddly in thick fogs- dampened as sound energy is scattered by large droplets in typical cold fogs, while where the vapour has tiny droplets (more like hot muggy high humidity), sound can carry further.
So it'd seem in-idiom with foggy, confusing Ulgu in general, and Warrior of Fog in particular, to create a spell(s) that make it sound as if troops are marching where there are none, or that conceal genuine troops arrival until the last moment, or makes it sound as if our troops are on that flank when in fact they're on the other side.
(Even have a similar technique to use, in multicasting minified Sounds cantrips, if scaling up Illusion isn't the right way.)
Doesn't look like this idea is on the approved list- might it be possible, @BoneyM ?

Boney said:
Viable.

me.me.here said:
Would that be possible as a spell-development project, to make a buff we could lay over a group that rendered them uncountable? Possibly even including an illusion of fog or an actual fog bank to propagate through just so we could make 'Fog of War' puns or references (plus potentially being able to work with the Staff of Mistery).

Boney said:
It's viable, though there's a very hard limit on how far you can get with stamping a fog aesthetic on everything to try to get it to jive with the staff.

Glau said:
Oh HEY- I just had an awesome idea for a battle magic spell using our traits. Inspired by the line "pulling resources and manpower out of thin air", I give you:
Mathilde's Misty Army Thimblerig
(working title. Mathilde would have RoW and MAT and MMAP to her name.)
Standing proximate to a unit of at least platoon size, the wizard conjures up a bank of must that covers the unit completely, plus two additional volumes of mist on either side of the unit. When the unit moves, each of the three volumes of mist may be moved independently by the caster.
So far, so mundane. But here's where the Ranaldian inspiration comes in:
The wizard can switch which fogbank the unit is in so long as an enemy has not yet positively (not by process of elimination) discovered which fogbank the unit is in.
So, basically, you have the wizard playing a shell game. One pea (the unit) and three cups (the fogbanks), enemy has to probe each one to make you "show them there is no pea in this one".
It takes some elements from Rite of Way- creation and herding of large banks of fog, some elements from the March of the Doomed Soldier ritual- the unit marching into fog that is only loosely connected to the real world, some from our knowledge of how you can tuck substance into the (h)edge from substance of shadow and the grey college, and a bit from the way our Partiarch built a way for the eye of Gazul to confuse the world about where the sun is.
Ultimately, I figure the mechanics would be taking the fogbank of rite of way, but pushing a modified/simplified version of substance of shadows through it instead of skywalk, so the soldiers are actually mostly in another dimension. Then, you break apart the fog bank into three pieces and manuever it, while pushing enough ulgu into each of them that the world forgets which one the soldiers are actually inside.
So, a spell that is the General of Fog running a con on an enemy general as our next battle magic.

Boney said:
Viable.

Derpmind said:
Trying to think of a powerful BM spell that Mathilde could create, and while Pit of Shades is the flashiest, Okkam's Mindrazor is the most powerful spell on the list. So what if Mathilde made... the opposite?

Warriors of Fog: The wizard enshrouds an entire group of allies within a blurring fog, rendering each figure somewjat indistinct. Non-magical attacks seem to always just miss, and magical attacks merely disperse the fog's effects from those hit, leaving the ally underneath unharmed.

Where Okkam's Mindrazor makes an entire unit extremely lethal, this would make an entire unit extremely hard to damage. Or in videogame terms, instead of crit damage, it gives I-frames.

Boney said:
Plausible.

Other spells:

thamuzz said:
Spell idea, aiming for Fiendishly Complex.
Spell causes the caster to start emitting a fine mist for a duration (lets say 10 minutes for a placeholder?). This mist lingers in the caster's absence until a time limit is reached (aiming for a longish duration here, 1 day?) or exposed to direct sunlight (maybe expand to sufficiently bright light, should be able to endure a torch). People other than the caster passing through the mist will absorb some of it, resulting in details of their recent memories becoming confused without them realizing it. For instance, a scout might misremember how many troops they saw, or what insignia they were wearing.
Moving around while the spell is active will spread the mist thin, meaning that a particular area of the spell's coverage can affect fewer people before becoming exhausted. Could also reduce the duration of the mist in general.
Preexisting conditions of fog or mist might enhance the duration and/or coverage.
If this basic premise seems reasonable, some follow up questions:
1. Would allowing the caster to specify which details become confused and how be reasonable, either as a basic feature of the spell or as a mastery trait?
2. Would having a specific casting of the spell confuse people in a consistent way be reasonable, either as a base feature or as a mastery trait?
3. Would giving the mist Burning Shadow style IFF be reasonable, or is that something that the caster would need to be in the area to make a judgement call about?

Boney said:
This seems acceptable, but any type of control over what memories get garbled or how exactly they're distorted is right out. As is IFF if the caster is no longer connected to the spell.
Also, as a general rule, never make plans about possible future masteries.

primemountain said:
You know what. I nominate Mat for a new title. She's the Scarecrow now.
M / Dread Aspect: Makes you seem absolutely terrifying to all those who look upon you for one minute.
Mastery - Roiling Shadows: Your shadow is empowered by the spell and thrashes about in a turbulent aura, lashing out at your enemies to wrap around arms and legs and throats, causing death, distraction and even more terror in all who must face you.
+
M / Universal Confusion: Bewilder, but applies to a whole group at once, up to about a ten meter diameter. Short range.
Mastery - Cloud of Confusion: You can cast the spell as a billowing cloud of bewildering gas, which pours from you for several minutes, constantly effecting everyone nearby. Cannot be selectively applied.
=
Scarecrow. Everyone around you is drugged up to their gills and scared shirtless of you. With the exception of Skaven with Gas Masks, like Pestilens and Skyre, Mat is now the Bane of Skaven, and most Goblins. Anything not Immune to Psychology and with low Leadership.
You know, the combination of all this:
Mastery - Indefatigable: While Aethyric Armour is active, you do not tire from physical exertion.
Mastery - Blessed Hands: You instinctively channel Ulgu along any weapon you wield. Any weapon held by you counts as Magical.
Mastery - Shadowrider: Your Shadowsteed is as familiar and easy to control as your own two legs. +5 Martial when mounted on a Shadowsteed, no penalty to rapid distance travel.
Mastery - Roiling Shadows: Your shadow is empowered by the spell and thrashes about in a turbulent aura, lashing out at your enemies to wrap around arms and legs and throats, causing death, distraction and even more terror in all who must face you.
Mastery - Cloud of Confusion: You can cast the spell as a billowing cloud of bewildering gas, which pours from you for several minutes, constantly effecting everyone nearby. Cannot be selectively applied.
Add Shadow Knives with Smoke and Mirror on top, and, well...
@BoneyM Would all those (without Shadow Knives and Smoke and Mirror) combine into a single Battle Magic? Something from Avatar and Warrior of Fog and Mantle of Mist into a spell like :"Avatar of Ulgu". A battle spell that turns Mat into all those masteries at once?
And since she attracts and produces her own smoke/fog, if we can turn Substance of Shadow into Substance of Fog, and add intangible on top, this turns into real Avatar Of Ulgu, or Dread Revenant territory. Mat becomes a damn terror on the field. A teleporting, intangible, terror.
EDIT: Hell, even if she has to recast the spells in battle, every time she refreshes Cloud of Confusion or Roiling Shadows, she can integrate a teleport with Smoke and Mirrors.

Boney said:
You can try, but the result you get out the other end would be the result of multiple AP, a lot of dice-rolls and, unless Ranald was particularly generous, probably some compromises.

Dracikral said:
@BoneyM I was wondering how viable a spell to manipulate fog/smoke/mist is? Could we create a spell that lets us make constructs from fog/smoke/mist or control it in a way?

Boney said:
If by constructs you mean shapes, yes. If by constructs you mean something solid and able to interact with the world, it would take investigation to figure out what might be possible.

TotallyNotEvil said:
@BoneyM do our current traits allow for the creation of a "Vampire Mist" spell?

Boney said:
No, but attempting to adapt an existing spell (if that was a spell) doesn't require a trait.

mastigos said:
drawing or writing something purely in the Aether so that only those with windsight (or an equivalent) can see it. Probably dissipates and blows away fairly quickly

Boney said:
Viable, probably Simple.

mastigos said:
after-image: delaying perception so that foes see you as you were a second ago

Boney said:
Viable, probably Moderate.

mastigos said:
cloak of fog: be covered in fog that makes it difficult to read your body language. Are you ducking, sideswiping, going for an overhead cleave? Who knows?

Boney said:
Viable, probably Simple, possibly easily adaptable from Shadowcloak.

mastigos said:
detect concealment and dishonesty: a formalized spell for detecting dishonesty via the way it affects Ulgu. Probably does not work on wizards.

Boney said:
Possibly viable.

mastigos said:
Making the target feel like they're memories of a subject or person were magically manipulated, without actually altering the memories

Boney said:
Possibly viable.

mastigos said:
Altering a target's sensation of how much time is passing, their internal clock

Boney said:
Viable, probably Simple.

Lightwhispers said:
Dispersed Location (needs better name): Probably Fiendishly Complex. Upon casting, the wizard blankets the area with a mist (noticeable, but not significantly hindering vision), and merges with it. While merged, the wizard is insubstantial and undetectable by mundane senses. If attacked with area-of-affect magic, or significant winds, the wizard takes full damage with no defense. At any time, the wizard may re-form anywhere inside the mist, ending the spell.
Might have a Battle Magic version which can only be cast while in a fog, but allows multiple reform/dispersals over a duration.

Boney said:
Viable, but immensely risky to try to create, since there'd be no way to test the 'turn back into a person' part of the spell except by turning yourself into mist and hoping for the best.

IronFist said:
1) make our shadow pop up as an intangible 3d figure and fight along side us, wielding our sword's shadow as an oversized shadow dagger (our mastery). It fights indipendently, but has to remain attached, effectively having someone fighting at our back, increasing the difficulty of being surrounded.
2) Detach our shadow and have it move under our direction or and do simple things independently. We can concentrate and assume direct control, which allows us to see and hear (and maybe talk) through it. This gives us the ability be at two places at once, but not act simultaneously.
2b) Teleport using Smoke and Mirrors to our shadow's location, giving a small boost to the effective range of teleportation.

Boney said:
1) make our shadow pop up as an intangible 3d figure and fight along side us, wielding our sword's shadow as an oversized shadow dagger (our mastery). It fights ~~indipendently~~ under the conscious control of the caster, but has to remain attached, effectively having someone fighting at our back, increasing the difficulty of being surrounded.
2) Detach our shadow and have it move and act under our direction ~~or and do simple things independently~~. We can concentrate and assume direct control, which allows us to see and hear (and maybe talk) through it. This gives us the ability be at two places at once, but not act simultaneously.
2b) Teleport using Smoke and Mirrors to our shadow's location, giving a small boost to the effective range of teleportation.

Click to expand...

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Would be plausible.

NexusEye said:
Could we fake the independent mind bit by having Wolf pilot the shadow for us by remote control?

Boney said:
Possibly, though bipedalism isn't currently in his repertoire.

Tasoli said:
I have got 2 spell ideas; 1 is using Warrior of Fog and Avatar can we create a spell that reveals all the priests and similarly divinely touched enemies and highlight them so we can see/sense/smell them from distance.

Boney said:
Only for Gods Mathilde knows enough about, which would currently be Ranald, Morr, and Gork and Mork. And it wouldn't apply to 'Priests', which is a job description rather than a metaphysical identifier, only to those that have channelled Godly power.

Godwinson said:
Grey Tape: You can cast this spell on a given bit of paperwork, falsifying its contents for <duration>. The contents are no more (or less) believable than the situation would entail.

Boney said:
Plausible.

LawsOfRobotics said:
I want to explore the idea for a spell that amplifies what Mathilde can achieve with infiltration ahead of a battle. Provoking infighting in our enemies is directly in Mathilde's bailiwick and has been very effective before.

The idea is that we could combine a scaled up Cloud of Confusion, and mulitcasted Choleric or Consuming Wrath from the Bright college. The general effect would be to confuse a group of enemies in their camp, making them more prone to violence (if possible the cloud would be tuned to make the targets unable to identify those around them), then incite that violence so that our enemies eliminate each other for us. I think this has a lot of potential when facing large armies that have been combined from several normally hostile groups, like those following the Everchosen.

The problem for this idea is where to source the Bright magic spell. We either need to help a bright wizard infiltrate the enemy camp with us, then make sure they aren't affected by Cloud of Confusion, or we need another source of Bright magic. @Boney can we do Windherder spell casting where the other magic is sourced from an enchanted item instead of directly from a Wizard? Also is the basic idea for this Windherding spell viable?

Boney said:
You would really want an actual Bright Wizard to help out with getting the general idea down because you want someone who will react to something going wrong by grounding all the Aqshy instead of just bulldozing forward with the spell like an enchanted item would, but yes, both the spell idea and the enchantment Windherding is theoretically plausible. Though you'd probably have to get an enchantment made specifically for that purpose that would be of very limited use outside of that context.

Enchantments:

Andres said:
1. First is what I like to call the balrog cloak. It combines our own mastered version of Dread Aspect with Cascading Fire-Cloak to make a cloak that, when activated, gives the wearer Terror and unleashes tendrils of shadow and flame that attack the wearer's enemies.
2. A weapon fitted with Okkam's Mindrazor and Life's End. The problem with a Life's End item is that it puts its victim's willpower against that of an inanimate object. My hope is this: Mindrazor collects and weaponises the wielder's Leadership, and so by collecting its wielder's Leadership, the item effectively has it; Life's End still hits with the item's own willpower, but thanks to Mindrazor that willpower is the same as that of the wielder.
3. Enchant Item to improve one characteristic or skill bonus of a bound spell. For example, Reaping Scythe gives +10 to Weapon Skill but Enchant Item will increase that to a +15. Shadowcloak gives a +20 bonus to Concealment tests, increased to +25. With Consuming Wrath, which gives +10 to both Weapon Skill and Toughness, Enchant Item turns one of those +10s into a +15 but not both. This is admittedly colouring outside the lines given that Enchant Item improves characteristics, not skills, but it looks pretty much the same to me.
4. Crown of Fire+Death's Messenger. As Crown of Fire, but +30 to Intimidate tests instead of +20.

Boney said:
1. Viable.
2. Viable.
3. To prevent Chamon in the brainmeats, Enchant Item is limited to items where it would make sense that an improvement in the quality of the item would result in the desired increase intrinsically. So yes to the weapon, viable to the cloak, depends on the item with Consuming Wrath.
4. Viable.

For these purposes, 'viable' means 'no obvious roadblocks, worth giving it a try'. Results may vary based on dicerolls.

Jyn Ryvia said:
Shadow: Mantle of Mist/Death: Ward Against Abomination Enchantment:
The Dämmerlichtreiter thurible.
when Incense is burned within the Dämmerlichtreiter thurible the smoke that it releases carries the warding effect against the undead. a skilled user can almost blanket the walls of a small town or village in its glowing smoke for a night.
let's make some actual Wards against the undead and gift them to the major towns and villages in Stirland, really get the legend going!

Boney said:
Yes.

LawsOfRobotics said:
I had another idea for a windherding enchantment that we could try. The idea is a riding cloak that has Shadowcloak and Dazzling Brightness enchantments. The idea is that it is useful escape/utility item that we could use as windherding practice because it combines 2 Relatively Simple spells. There could be one quick incantation to activate both the dazzle and Shadowcloak, and a different incantation to activate just Shadowcloak. The idea is that if you are sneaking and get spotted you can break line of sight and then hide, or the user can just become really sneaky on demand. It feels like a useful item we could either use ourselves, or give to the Hochlander, or give to Eike when she becomes our apprentice. It might be over-complicated and less effective to use windherding for something like this compared to just making a cloak with Shroud of Invisibility but that is a more difficult Moderately Complicated spell so maybe it balances out. As for the name I am calling it the Cloak of Flashy Escapes.

Boney said:
Yes.

Redshirt Army said:
per White Dwarf 389 (UK), pg. 69, Ulgu is able to create the spell "Ranald's Mischief", where "Using a small silver mirror, the wizard switches an ability of one of his allies with that of one of his enemies." I have no clue if this is actually a good idea or not, but I thought it might be funny if in this timeline, Horstmann's Speculum was a joint Ulgu/Hysh windherder project.

Boney said:
It's a fun enough idea that I'll allow it.

Rituals:

Garlak said:
Needs to itself be related to a trait... Hmm, would something like a spell that messed with maps or the ability to map a place, be suitable material for Warrior of Fog? Or messes with the ability to nail somebody down on a map -- i.e. "We know this person is somewhere here, but darned if we could tell exactly where"?

Boney said:
It would fit the trait, but the raw power it would require makes it Ritual territory.

Spells we've created:

DiceOfStupidity said:
Spell idea: Mathilde Fog Path

Army utility spell. Create flat layer of fog over the ground to serve as a ground to walk on. It is an answer to difficulties of travel on chaos wastes - all that mutated terrain where vagons can get stuck. Bogs, hives of carnivorous ants, cracked rocky plains, parches of quicksands, etc. Chaos wastes are not uniform. It is horrible, mutated area where mile forward may require going ten miles to a side. This spell would be meant to make that easier, and allow to skip some of difficulties.

Spell allows:
- Allows to drive or walk over sand without carts digging their wheels in sand
- Allows army to cross the bog
- Allows army to cross the river
- Allows to fill the gaps that usually would require the bridge
- Allows to walk over poisonous underbush without touching it

Spell limitations:
- Does not allow to walk on clouds
- Does not allow to keep layer in strong wind
- Does not allow to define friend/foe (anyone can walk on it)
- If someone purposely probes the fog, he or she may fall through
- Limited by environmental conditions - hard to create and keep fog in burning sun

Boney said:
Viable, though it would likely have a long casting time and require constant concentration from the caster.

The previous incarnation of this list can be found here.

Parabola · Aug 17, 2023

LawsOfRobotics said:
As per my earlier post, I have made an updated list of Approved Spells because the previous list has not been updated in a while. I tried to organize the list a little by grouping similar spells and sorting by when ideas were suggested. Apologies if some formatting in the quotes got removed, I may try to fix that when I have more time.

Wonderful work! The one thing I'd change is maybe putting the Warriors of Fog spell on the Battlefield Obfuscation section, I'd say that's close enough to its spirit.

I don't know if we'll get around to many of these anytime soon, but I would say the Shadow Sword and Fog Bank Battle Magic ideas have the most chance of getting done compared to most other things. The former is directly in line with what Mathilde has developed with Branarhune, and the other would cleave extremely close to Warrior of Fog in general and benefit from our staff in particular.

DragonParadox · Aug 17, 2023

@Boney I was just looking through the list of approved spells to refresh my memory and I noticed that the shadow clone spell was allowed and that Wolf could potentially drive it though one of the major stumbling blocks was that bipedalism is not in his repertoire. If we bound something like a Dark Hound and choose directed could Wolf drive that around? Or would be be too hard to do though the medium of Mathilde's soul since his own would not be bound to the apparition?

Somic · Aug 17, 2023

DragonParadox said:
If we bound something like a Dark Hound and choose directed could Wolf drive that around? Or would be be too hard to do though the medium of Mathilde's soul since his own would not be bound to the apparition?

I'd be worried about whether Wolf has the willpower and determination to actually direct the Apparition if its drives don't match-

Hold on. Can we... bind a few Dark Hounds, go in a similar direction as Bodyguard, and have them act in concert with Wolf? Do they understand the idea of working in packs? (Can they be made to understand? Would Wolf have an easier time with this part because he's a canine himself?)

Parabola · Aug 17, 2023

I imagine there's a difference between Wolf piloting a mere shadow and Wolf trying to pilot or influence a rather dangerous and already self-directed being.

But I wonder if it'd be possible to briefly shift our shadow to looking like Wolf so he could pilot it.

DOOMPOTATO · Aug 17, 2023

BurnNote said:
Are we sure humans aren't just a hairless type of Skaven?

We aren't, as a matter of fact. One of the theories about the origin of Skaven was that they were created during the doom of Kavzar from humans. The Skaven might actually outnumber humans, so humans could be considered a hairless subspecies of Skaven.

DragonParadox · Aug 17, 2023

Parabola said:
I imagine there's a difference between Wolf piloting a mere shadow and Wolf trying to pilot or influence a rather dangerous and already self-directed being.

But I wonder if it'd be possible to briefly shift our shadow to looking like Wolf so he could pilot it.

I imagine so hence why I asked, it might not work out, still if it was a functional idea that would make for a safe way for Wolf to help us in combat and for that matter provide a bit of utility. You could just strap some bags to his apparition form and get a bit more looting done whereas I do not think we could keep our shadow solid enough to do that over a decent distance. Apparitions give substance and power to what would otherwise be a clump of magic, that is why we even bother to bind them.

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