Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
honestly, with the papers cooling and Adela getting ready for the Skaven stuff.. we might have to let Max go and hire on Adela. there is a point where both he and us will be better off going for his exam and his own study.

got to let the bird fly at some point.
We keep Max on because he can write our papers, not for his own personal advancement. He makes a billion favors off of it all, and it only costs him the typical employment AP tax, so if we could improve ourselves during our tenure as Spymaster he certainly can too.
 
I like having the EIC? It's a potential tool or weapon as or more powerful than our sword (if used correctly) and it gives us a way to make large-scale, long-term impacts in the world. I don't quite get why there's a simultaneous factional sentiment to discard the institutions and relationships we draw power from (EIC, ducklings, etc) co-existing with a strong faction favoring marginal improvements to personal killy-ness. (A new set of robes, an enchanted gyrocopter, a staff.) If our goal is to do things that change the world, both are useful, right?
 
We did have an option to hire an immediate replacement, mind, in the experienced and opinionated spy.
Yeah, and I remember people advocating for her for that very reason. Instead we got the capable low-drama guy. Now, I'd like to hand over the EIC apparatus to him at some point, when we have the chance to consolidate our wizards from their current 1.5 actions down to 1 action, and so reclaim 1 personal AP per turn as @chocolote12 pointed out, but I don't think right now is the best time, and I wouldn't mind just keeping it around forever either because doing spymaster stuff is fun (I voted for us to be an Intrigue Advisor at K8P, way back last October).
honestly, with the papers cooling and Adela getting ready for the Skaven stuff.. we might have to let Max go and hire on Adela. there is a point where both he and us will be better off going for his exam and his own study.

got to let the bird fly at some point.
We're gonna start getting a lot more paper topics real soon as we work through the backlog of Skaven artifacts. Besides, Max is a talented smith in his own right, even if he doesn't have the Tale of Metal cheat code. If we're gonna drop either of the Golds from our employment, I'd say Johann, especially if the thread ends up romancing him, turning our AP investment into .5 Max + .5 Duckling Club.
 
Why would it be any meaner than firing Max?
On Max, we do know he is improving himself, at least in his Dwarven blacksmithing.
Though on reflection, I don't think we've seen much evidence of magical development in terms of spell learning? Maybe he's feeling AP crunch, too.

Yeah, I think the EIC is fine for now, even if I can get why it seems like a slow burn to some people at times. It's not as if all of the personal actions we've taken have struck me as worthwhile either.
 
I like having the EIC? It's a potential tool or weapon as or more powerful than our sword (if used correctly) and it gives us a way to make large-scale, long-term impacts in the world. I don't quite get why there's a simultaneous factional sentiment to discard the institutions and relationships we draw power from (EIC, ducklings, etc) co-existing with a strong faction favoring marginal improvements to personal killy-ness. (A new set of robes, an enchanted gyrocopter, a staff.) If our goal is to do things that change the world, both are useful, right?
Maybe it's just a difference in personal goals. My intent isn't to change the world. The best thing for changing the world would be to skip out on this loremaster business and just become a merchant lord full-time; that gets more people fed, armed, healthy and happy than any other thing we could do. Drop those great deeds on a Barony and start a dynasty to continue our legacy, while we're at it; the prosperity shouldn't end with our death and all. Superweapons are neat and sometimes even useful, but economics is the real game changer.

I, personally, want to do cool things. Swordfighting vampires isn't particularly useful; in a hundred years, not even the vampires will remember it, and they won't even be dead. However, it's super cool to swordfight them, so I'd go for it. Going on the Elfcation isn't likely to get anything at all done, but Ulthuan is neat, and the Naggarythians are cool, and the Drucchi are strong, so I want to go. And so on and so forth.
That said firing Johann like that would feel kind of mean.
We can set him up to self employ. He's still valuable, it's just that I don't feel that we're getting much out of personally managing him.
 
We still have plenty of skaven technology in our basement to research so maybe we should finish with that first and then see how things will go.
 
I like having the EIC? It's a potential tool or weapon as or more powerful than our sword (if used correctly) and it gives us a way to make large-scale, long-term impacts in the world. I don't quite get why there's a simultaneous factional sentiment to discard the institutions and relationships we draw power from (EIC, ducklings, etc) co-existing with a strong faction favoring marginal improvements to personal killy-ness. (A new set of robes, an enchanted gyrocopter, a staff.) If our goal is to do things that change the world, both are useful, right?

I feel you are being overly broad in this matter, case in point:
  1. A staff helps with all magic not just the magic that goes boom
  2. An enchanted gyrocopter allows greater flexibility in where we take it, stealth and is a symbols of prestige
  3. Better robes might allow a better use of time by incorporating some tirelessness into Mathilde's day to day life
 
What would a Dwarven book about engineering by non-engineers even be like? Notes from Holds that had to make due after gobbos swallowed their entire engineering guild? Traditionalists doing a piece by piece dissertation about how exactly each particular piece of equipment is an affront to Dwarfhood?

Books on basic principles and records of various siege weapons and their accomplishments and the like. Though they might grumble, the Dwarves will admit that the inclined plane is out of the bag.

@BoneyM
1. If we wanted to concentrate on enhancing pure damage of our marksdwarf pistol as much as possible, should we look at enchantment or at dwarf runes?
2. Would enchanting our marksdwarf pistol introduce any range limitations, I.E. spell running out of power with distance?
3. Could we add a silencer enchanted with Illusion to a runed pistol to suppress its sound/muzzle flash?

1. Ignoring all other possible considerations? Enchantment.
2. Depends on the spell.
3. No.

ooh New spell ideas. I am surprised nobody mentioned these before -they are not at the approved spell list-

Shadow Imitation

We merge our shadows with opponenet and force them to mimic our movements.

Shadow Sewing

Shadow tentacles that can pierce opponent.

@BoneyM would these work?

Shadow Sewing seems to be very similar to what the mastered Dread Aspect already does, and Shadow Imitation doesn't really fit Ulgu's theme - it's about confusion and misdirection and illusion, not outright mind control.

@BoneyM I'm a patreon of Jay Eaton and I spent my monthly commission on a Mathilde sketch based on the previous portrait. I'm pretty pleased with how it came out. Though I missed the stream so I couldn't give feedback as it was drawn. Spoilered for size.

This is really amazing, I'm adding it to the character sheet.

1. First is what I like to call the balrog cloak. It combines our own mastered version of Dread Aspect with Cascading Fire-Cloak to make a cloak that, when activated, gives the wearer Terror and unleashes tendrils of shadow and flame that attack the wearer's enemies.
2. A weapon fitted with Okkam's Mindrazor and Life's End. The problem with a Life's End item is that it puts its victim's willpower against that of an inanimate object. My hope is this: Mindrazor collects and weaponises the wielder's Leadership, and so by collecting its wielder's Leadership, the item effectively has it; Life's End still hits with the item's own willpower, but thanks to Mindrazor that willpower is the same as that of the wielder.
3. Enchant Item to improve one characteristic or skill bonus of a bound spell. For example, Reaping Scythe gives +10 to Weapon Skill but Enchant Item will increase that to a +15. Shadowcloak gives a +20 bonus to Concealment tests, increased to +25. With Consuming Wrath, which gives +10 to both Weapon Skill and Toughness, Enchant Item turns one of those +10s into a +15 but not both. This is admittedly colouring outside the lines given that Enchant Item improves characteristics, not skills, but it looks pretty much the same to me.
4. Crown of Fire+Death's Messenger. As Crown of Fire, but +30 to Intimidate tests instead of +20.

1. Viable.
2. Viable.
3. To prevent Chamon in the brainmeats, Enchant Item is limited to items where it would make sense that an improvement in the quality of the item would result in the desired increase intrinsically. So yes to the weapon, viable to the cloak, depends on the item with Consuming Wrath.
4. Viable.

For these purposes, 'viable' means 'no obvious roadblocks, worth giving it a try'. Results may vary based on dicerolls.

Do the Dwarves know about it? How do they feel about such a thing existing?

It's a result of them emulating Sigmar so hard it reminds them of his deeds, rather than any supernatural subversion. Dwarves are in favour of humans being more Sigmar-ish.

We are definitely not at that point of Mathilde's life yet, but once she becomes a Dumbledore-style wise old quest giver, it would be interesting if you were to change viewpoint character for short periods of time to dive into the decision making of an expedition leader while he travels far off at Mathilde's behest. Provided we ever get to such a point.

It's one way Mathilde's future could go, depending on how her story unfolds and what the thread wants to do if/when it gets to that point.

I also have a very bad memory, which is why I am very grateful for SV's search function. I just plugged in "In this thread" "Windherder" "by: BoneyM" and looked at the results.

I lean on this a huge amount too.

How many people do actually want do all that stuff that is talked during the Thread Madness period? It constantly brought up by the same actors that always do so, and I know that I personally don't care much about those plans and started skipping those posts because of my antipathy towards that stuff.

I don't think that you can really gauge that stuff before you get to the actual plan voting because you don't know who stopped paying attention to the thread momentarily.

I'm reminded of how the Liber Mortis vote turned out. The discussion was so lively I had to soft-ban the topic for quite a while, but the actual vote wasn't anywhere near as divided as the arguments might lead someone to believe. 'Thread consensus' is a tricky weathervane, and I'm careful to only ever use it to see if a topic has enough interest to put it to a vote, rather than trying to draw conclusions about what the thread actually wants from it alone.
 
Why would we fire Johann just after we finally got Queekish done and can jointly research skaven tech for like twenty turns? His specialty is reserve engineering stuff.
 
Last edited:
I like having the EIC? It's a potential tool or weapon as or more powerful than our sword (if used correctly) and it gives us a way to make large-scale, long-term impacts in the world. I don't quite get why there's a simultaneous factional sentiment to discard the institutions and relationships we draw power from (EIC, ducklings, etc) co-existing with a strong faction favoring marginal improvements to personal killy-ness. (A new set of robes, an enchanted gyrocopter, a staff.) If our goal is to do things that change the world, both are useful, right?

Agreed.

To be honest, I find that I am... not that drawn to increasing our killiness.
If it's narratively appropriate/satisfying, sure, but it's just not a priority.

I am here for the story, the characters and the worldbuilding, not to "win" the game, especially not through the dreaded powerleveling.

Like, even for the "Elfcation", I am interested in the awaiting adventure and the until-now obscured lore, not in the elf favor or subsequent power ups.

On a semi-related note, I will also admit that I am biased. I am far more likely to be convinced to "powerlevel" institutions rather than Mathilde, because to my mind, that creates a host of interesting new character interactions, event butterflies and changes to the world.

As a personal preference, I am just tired of the more toxic variants of protagonist agency, and from my experience, they are frequently connected to the powerleveling of the protagonist and the ensuing powercreep.

I like when other people get to do cool stuff in quests. It helps my immersion and thus directly improves my enjoyment of a story.
 
Why would we fire Johann just after we finally got Queekish done and can jointly research skaven tech for like twenty turns? His specialty is reserve engineering stuff.
Skaven tech is his stuff, not ours. I have no interest in it, and we've no other reason to keep him on as a personal employee now that he can read the notes.

He's still valuable, and we'd see him in the duckling actions. It's just that personally managing actions with him doesn't sound fun anymore.
 
Shadow Sewing seems to be very similar to what the mastered Dread Aspect already does, and Shadow Imitation doesn't really fit Ulgu's theme - it's about confusion and misdirection and illusion, not outright mind control.
IT is body jacking not mind control. You make them mimic you like your shadow mimics you. OR more like you control their shadow and they are forced to mimic their own shadow.
 
Last edited:
IT is body jacking not mind control. You make them mimic you like your shadow mimics you.

Under the thematics of Wind magic, this would definitely be Dark Magic, rather than Grey Magic. Grey Magic isn't exactly the magic of shadows, it's the magic of boundaries, especially boundaries between light and darkness. Body jacking would fit a theme that's just shadows, but it doesn't jive with boundaries, since it's outright erasing the boundary between you and them.
 
Comes down to the fundamental question of: Do we want the pov character to do things or for them to cause things to happen. While this quest is mechanically a CKII quest the character build and cumulative events have pushed very far into the realms of 'action protagonist'.

This was never an intentional thing. A very strong undercurrent in the thread has been to build organisations. The EIC, the ducking club, the Stirland Watch. It just never got very far.
Part of the problem is that Mathilde is a Wizard and most of the problems presented are more easily solved by having her deal with it herself than by ordering someone else to do it.

Skaven tech is his stuff, not ours. I have no interest in it, and we've no other reason to keep him on as a personal employee now that he can read the notes.

He's still valuable, and we'd see him in the duckling actions. It's just that personally managing actions with him doesn't sound fun anymore.
I would not be adverse to trading in our [Johann] half action for a second [Duckling] action.

This makes me wonder how "sigmar-like" the dawi consider Mathilde. I somehow doubt Mathilde would like the answer to that question.
Better question: How Mathilde-like was Sigmar?
 
Skaven tech is his stuff, not ours. I have no interest in it, and we've no other reason to keep him on as a personal employee now that he can read the notes.

He's still valuable, and we'd see him in the duckling actions. It's just that personally managing actions with him doesn't sound fun anymore.
And I have no interest in AV, Ulgu tongs or Theurgy but the last time I openly posted about an idea to devest us of AV options I had people jumping down my throat! :V
 
Skaven tech is his stuff, not ours. I have no interest in it, and we've no other reason to keep him on as a personal employee now that he can read the notes.

He's still valuable, and we'd see him in the duckling actions. It's just that personally managing actions with him doesn't sound fun anymore.
I disagree. We looted their a ton of their items, we looted their tech library, we translated Queekish.

Skaven are very much our business, even more so as we work for a dwarf hold. Countering the skaven is always a good thing in their books, so I definitely see how it's the Karak's business.

He is also very good at analyzing other artifacts.
 
Better question: How Mathilde-like was Sigmar?

I would argue 'not very' on both counts. Sigmar was a rather straightforward sort of hairy barbarian, Mathilde isn't. Yes dwarfs like both of them but that is for their deeds and those deeds don't have much in common besides 'both killed orcs at some point' which puts them in the company of every sort of remotely martial hero in the Old World and beyond.
 
Under the thematics of Wind magic, this would definitely be Dark Magic, rather than Grey Magic. Grey Magic isn't exactly the magic of shadows, it's the magic of boundaries, especially boundaries between light and darkness. Body jacking would fit a theme that's just shadows, but it doesn't jive with boundaries, since it's outright erasing the boundary between you and them.
Wouldn't Enfeebling and Withering enemies hit this as well tough? I don't think I understand this.
 
Last edited:
I disagree. We looted their a ton of their items, we looted their tech library, we translated Queekish.

Skaven are very much our business, even more so as we work for a dwarf hold. Countering the skaven is always a good thing in their books, so I definitely see how it's the Karak's business.

He is also very good at analyzing other artifacts.
I'll rephrase that, then; it's his [area of interest], not ours. I don't find it interesting. It's useful, but it's just technology, and technology we've already stolen. If we keep coming up with stuff like the ability to literally dispel ratling guns then I wouldn't mind it, but I'm not interested in writing papers about a slightly more efficient sprocket. Let him do his passion. He doesn't need us looking over his shoulder to manage it.
And I have no interest in AV, Ulgu tongs or Theurgy but the last time I openly posted about an idea to devest us of AV options I had people jumping down my throat! :V
Okay. I suppose I feel vaguely sort of sympathetic about that, but I don't see what I'm supposed to do. I'm just trying to muddle along, sorry.
Better question: How Mathilde-like was Sigmar?
Big weapon? Check. Hit vampires with big weapon? Yep. Killed lots of orcs? Uh huh.

Not much else, though.

Here's a significantly improved version of the Grey College org chart, with my thanks to @BoneyM for his insights.

You're missing the lunch ladies. Nobody even knows their names, so they've got to be high up on the list.
 
I would argue 'not very' on both counts. Sigmar was a rather straightforward sort of hairy barbarian, Mathilde isn't. Yes dwarfs like both of them but that is for their deeds and those deeds don't have much in common besides 'both killed orcs at some point' which puts them in the company of every sort of remotely martial hero in the Old World and beyond.
Nah. Sigmar invented the human calander and built the first human roads in the Reik basin. He also only conquered two human tribes, the two who would become the Westerlands and the Norsecans, all the others he negotiated with and tried to build bonds of mutual understanding.

Sigmar was way more invested in state building then he was in smashing things (mostly orks).
 
Voting is open
Back
Top