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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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ohhhhh so close!

I really hope that Markgraf wins, I Want to build a shadow keep with anti-vampire runes and holy stuff right where Castle Drakenhof used to be, just to rub the salt in the vampire wounds.

I want to build an army decked out in anti-vampire enchantments (like the Thurible idea): 'The Immortal Killers'

I want to ride around on the shadow horse with the protector on, slowly and surely becoming a True Legend

I want to be the one that the monsters, vampire, undead or otherwise, look under 'their' bed at night.

I want to truly be The Dämmerlichtreiter
 
EternityWarrior said:
Eh, I doubt a couple of votes are that suspicious. I was a lurker for at least a year until there was a vote I really wanted to weigh in on.
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True I just find so many in a row suddenly flipping a vote like that slightly odd. Especially with brand new accounts and not even a single comment relating to their vote.
Like I don't want to say anything but maybe a mod or something should just check it out?
 
EternityWarrior said:
I don't know why people don't like Heidi. She's a very interesting character that I would really like to see more of. We can be besties and do sleepovers and such
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Interesting != likeable as a character != likeable as a person != trustworthy.
I think she's fairly fascinating and fun character to keep far far away from, or at least not to take marching orders from.

Darth. said:
And maybe something more!~

But for real though, we won't be working for Heidi, we'll be working with her, for Ranald. He only work "for" Heidi as part of our cover. People who say "I don't like Heidi hence I don't want to work for her" don't understand the job...probably. I could be wrong.
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You are overestimating Mathilde's degree of autonomy, I think.
We will be enacting Heidi's ambition and agenda. She may not be strictly speaking ordering Mathilde about, but that's more of just ordering about not being her style.
Remember that Heidi is one of very few people better than Mathilde at intrigue, probably, and definitely better at the specifically court intrigue. Mathilde will certainly have ample space for (title drop!) divided loyalties and whether to do what Heidi asks, but that's not really the same as working "with", it's still working "for", just with room to double-cross and backstab Heidi if we have to.
 
EternityWarrior said:
I don't know why people don't like Heidi. She's a very interesting character that I would really like to see more of. We can be besties and do sleepovers and such
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Interesting, yes. Best friends, no. I just don't trust her character.

I'm not talking about the whole becoming Empress thing. What I mean is stuff like the time she was all "Good job on stealing the Stirlandian tax base and hiding out near the end of nowhere". That is questionable at least. I don't want to see what she wants Mathilde to get up to. I'm concerned she'd bring out all the worst traits in her.
 
VoiceOfTheRiders said:
We are working to put HER son on the throne and even by your admission will report to her. We are working for her in addition to working with her for Ranald.
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We are working to to put the Emperor's son and our godson on the throne by simply helping the empire. She is only Empress because Ranald asked her to be (that's canon and in the text). Again, she won't be able to order us to do things we don't want to. It's a partnership, not subservience. It's literally said Ranald will be in our debt. She's bringing us in as a partner to her conspiracy which she's running on Ranald's behalf.
 
Inspirit said:
I see it more as a wider range of problems, unique to each Karak, apart from greenskins and skaven which are probably common to them all. That's only for Loremaster, Waystones would be magic, research, diplomacy, corrupted waystones and lore.

Sylvania has had most of the surface threats and some of the underlying ones removed. Markgraf is sitting on Sylvania so it stays that way. Possibly building it up if we can and looking into deeper threats, but mostly making sure it stays vampire free. Others can do that just as well as we can.

Sylvania is a pretty small area, with a narrow focus, when compared to the Empire or Karaz Ankor.
In case the above image doesn't show properly, here is the link. While I'm not entirely sure this map is entirely quest canon, its probably similar enough. Compare the region we'd be in control of as Markgraf and mostly limited to. Loremaster and Waystones would cover us travelling all over the Old World, Bodyguard all over the Empire. That's one of the appeals for me, but I understand if others aren't that interested in that freedom of movement.

Fake Edit: Found a better map of the Empire in colour with settlements. Here's one of the Old World that looks slightly different.

I guess in part, I like the Loremaster and Waystone options because they allow for visiting loads of different places far apart from each other. Bodyguard has that, too, but with more politics. Sylvania just seems unnapealing because we're in charge of a fairly small area and with little scope to act outside that area.
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I see Loremaster as more monster of the week format, while Markgraf, Waystones and even Bodyguard give more focused overarching plot.
While Sylvania may have more narrowly focused issues, that does not mean they do not come in million different guises.
And let's not kid ourselves by saying vampires are gone, these are immortal monsters who can not only freely create more of their kind, but can spend decades and centuries dormant.
Not to mention necromances, those pop up anywhere there is magic to be had, and Sylvania is full of dhar to drive potential mages into stupid and insane things.
Not to mention every possible mutated beast or strange phenomena created by centuries of dhar contamination.
Als cults, i bet there are dozens of proscribed cults, many devoted to vampires, or evil gods, or chaos.
Obvious threats may be mostly gone, that does not mean work is over.

Also all the diplomacy and intrigue to make the locals decide that maybe the empire is better than vampires.
 
Last time I was this invested in a vote was back during the original Paths of Civilisation quest. There were a fair few close votes, but I don't think there was ever one as close as this.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
I Want to build a shadow keep with anti-vampire runes and holy stuff right where Castle Drakenhof used to be, just to rub the salt in the vampire wounds.
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We should make it a palace rather than a castle so even if it does fall into vampire hands again, it won't be able to withstand a siege (Well, the last one didn't either, but you know what I mean). And it's not like we'll need a fortress when we have battle wizards, the imperial army and a whole bunch of holy orders garrisoned everywhere.
 
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Darth. said:
We are working to to put the Emperor's son and our godson on the throne by simply helping the empire. She is only Empress because Ranald asked her to be (that's canon and in the text). Again, she won't be able to order us to do things we don't want to. It's a partnership, not subservience. It's literally said Ranald will be in our debt. She's bringing us in as a partner to her conspiracy which she's running on Ranald's behalf.
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Or it could be read as work for me, to help me succeed in putting Ranald in my debt, and thus in yours also. While this is an extreme interpretation it does highlight my point. In addition if we are working for Ranald directly, would he be in our debt. I don't think so: a boss isn't in debt to his employees. Tutoring will aid Ranald, but we aren't working for him.
 
VoiceOfTheRiders said:
Or it could be read as work for me, to help me succeed in putting Ranald in my debt, and thus in yours also. While this is an extreme interpretation it does highlight my point. In addition if we are working for Ranald directly, would he be in our debt. I don't think so: a boss isn't in debt to his employees. Tutoring will aid Ranald, but we aren't working for him.
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You keep saying we aren't working for him without actually saying what makes you so sure about that while I've given you a laundry list of why we are.

Also Ranald being in our debt wasn't told to us by Heidi it was told to us by Boney as part of a narrative. This isn't Heidi conning us, it's Boney incentivizing us if we pick it.
 
NavySeel said:
True I just find so many in a row suddenly flipping a vote like that slightly odd. Especially with brand new accounts and not even a single comment relating to their vote.
Like I don't want to say anything but maybe a mod or something should just check it out?
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Decent chance they are real votes from new posters, there's a fair amount of Brigading that happens when quests get large where players ask their friends to vote for an option regardless of whether they have read the story, the thing to really check is if the IPs involved have even read any of the story posts, or if they jumped straight to the end of the thread and voted, but that would require a fairly comprehensive database of interactions to be able to skim through and I doubt the forum keeps that comprehensive a log of activity.
 
IronFist said:
Accounts made within the last half hour, with one post:

Smells fishy.
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No matter how fishy you find it, this is unnecessarily aggressive. It's perfectly possible these are shy or new posters. Having your first interaction with a thread be a mass ping notification that someone doubts your sincerity would be massively demoralizing. As I said before, silently report if you have sus. Don't do some attempted public shaming thing.
 
Kliden said:
No matter how fishy you find it, this is unnecessarily aggressive. It's perfectly possible these are shy or new posters. Having your first interaction with a thread be a mass ping notification that someone doubts your sincerity would be massively demoralizing. As I said before, silently report if you have sus. Don't do some attempted public shaming thing.
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to give the benefit of the doubt, They did not sound like they know how to report.
 
Valmond said:
I see Loremaster as more monster of the week format, while Markgraf, Waystones and even Bodyguard give more focused overarching plot.
While Sylvania may have more narrowly focused issues, that does not mean they do not come in million different guises.
And let's not kid ourselves by saying vampires are gone, these are immortal monsters who can not only freely create more of their kind, but can spend decades and centuries dormant.
Not to mention necromances, those pop up anywhere there is magic to be had, and Sylvania is full of dhar to drive potential mages into stupid and insane things.
Not to mention every possible mutated beast or strange phenomena created by centuries of dhar contamination.
Als cults, i bet there are dozens of proscribed cults, many devoted to vampires, or evil gods, or chaos.
Obvious threats may be mostly gone, that does not mean work is over.

Also all the diplomacy and intrigue to make the locals decide that maybe the empire is better than vampires.
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All true, and I have faith in the QM writing an engaging story set there. I just can't help feeling it's a step backwards and is far more restricting than many of the other jobs.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep, I've been up far too long and I think I'm starting to look like an undead resident of Sylvania :V

Hopefully it won't be as nail bitingly close later on.
 
You know, yesterday, it was easy. Bodyguard was quite far behind and I could just focus on Markgraf
But now it's back in the running and I'm torn between it and Markgraf again. On one hand, Ranald and Heidi and interactions across the Empire. On the other hand, Protector shenanigans :(
 
Darth. said:
You keep saying we aren't working for him without actually saying what makes you so sure about that while I've given you a laundry list of why we are.

Also Ranald being in our debt wasn't told to us by Heidi it was told to us by Boney as part of a narrative. This isn't Heidi conning us, it's Boney incentivizing us if we pick it. Here is the relevant infomation.
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Your argument is we will be aiding Ranald. Therefore we are working for him, and working for him exclusively.
BoneyM said:
And you're not talking to the Chamberlain?" You give her a flat look, and she smiles. "Yes, it's my idea. For now he's a bit young to be tutored in your sort of thing, but nobody's too young to be assassinated. I won't waste you on day-to-day bodyguarding, but there's a few occasions a year that are too public for my liking that I'd like you there for, and I want you to sort out his day-to-day bodyguards - recruit, vet, and equip. We've got Greatswords, but they're a blunt instrument. From what I've heard, you saw for yourself how easily they can be bypassed when you were a mere Journeywoman."

You nod thoughtfully. "And the rest of the time?"

"Politics, my dear. I went and looked up those Articles of yours, and as long as I get my darling Luitpold to make it an order, you wouldn't be restricted by the Grey Order's rules. He comes second, they come fourth."

You mentally review Article 1 and nod. 'Laws and ideals of their Order' comes after 'he who is rightfully elected Emperor of Sigmar's Holy Empire'. "What did you have in mind, specifically?"

"Luitpold isn't a young man, and Emperor's a job where many never have the chance to grow old. If something happens to him, Gods forbid, then it needs to be Mandred that's next. Electors don't like child Emperors, and I want to be able to count on their support should the worst happen. If there was a vote tomorrow, it'd almost certainly be Grand Duke Feuerbach of Talabecland. Failing that, Hertwig or van Hal."

You take a moment to process that. "You think Roswita could be Empress?"

"Of course. She's all but conquered Sylvania, she's cosy with the Cult of Sigmar, and she still has a marriage that could seal the right alliance. Great compromise candidate. Point is, it will take work to get things sorted out so that Mandred can get the votes instead, and there's no better or more trustworthy instrument for those sorts of games than your very own self."

"What sort of games do you have in mind?" you ask cautiously.

"Nothing drastic. Just the right conversations with the right people, and maybe the right favours to secure the right allies. Everyone has outstanding bugbears that need slaying, they always do. Middenland and Nordland have each other, Wissenland has the rats, Stirland has Sylvania, Ostermark has Mordheim, you get the picture. Hopefully it will all be wasted effort and Luitpold will live to see Mandred grow up to be a dashing young man, but if it isn't, then I - and our mutual friend - would be very much in your debt."
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  • Heidi mentions that Ranald will be in our debt, more significantly it is a side note. Heidi will be in our dept. I believe that BoneyM explained why Ranald will be in our debt outside of the story, but not that he would be in our debt.
  • Heidi won't waste our time with day-to-day bodyguarding, she wants us to vet bodyguards and go out in her and Mandred's name.
  • Her biggest concern is getting her son on the throne, not in ensuring that Ranald's bet succeeds: look at what she leads with. The fact that her and Ranald's wishes co-inside is a nice coincidence, albeit Ranald might have only made his bet knowing that Heidi would wish to put her son on the throne.
Tutoring is explicitly working for Heidi, with the addition of also being beneficial to Ranald.
 
Inspirit said:
All true, and I have faith in the QM writing an engaging story set there. I just can't help feeling it's a step backwards and is far more restricting than many of the other jobs.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep, I've been up far too long and I think I'm starting to look like an undead resident of Sylvania :V

Hopefully it won't be as nail bitingly close later on.
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And LAL is stagnating into comfortable routine instead of seeking new experiences if we want to give negative descriptions.
Mind you, i am not voting for Markgraf i just feel the argument against it has been bit unfairly presented.
 
Honestly, I don't think we'd be spending that much time with Mandred based on Heidi's description of the job. It does very much sound like LaL but for the Empire primarily.
BoneyM said:
For now he's a bit young to be tutored in your sort of thing, but nobody's too young to be assassinated. I won't waste you on day-to-day bodyguarding, but there's a few occasions a year that are too public for my liking that I'd like you there for, and I want you to sort out his day-to-day bodyguards - recruit, vet, and equip.
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