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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Adhoc vote count started by Rukia on Oct 28, 2021 at 11:33 AM, finished with 887 posts and 212 votes.
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*Internal Screaming*
 
Byzantine said:
Ah, not too bad then. Still need to avoid anything chaotic, obviously, and the more malevolent of the non-chaotic gods are probably still not fun. But at least we aren't accidentally creating something they can do something meaningful through.

Anyway the real threat here is that to make the crystals we need to be in the presence of an actual divine artifact for that god. That's not a small thing, particularly for proscribed gods.
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Mathy though of the fire of ulfric first, which is publicly accessible and people light their own fires from it all the time. I don't think we should go for that one first anyway (because we kinda like ulfric) but it shows that there can be fairly easy ways to get this essence...

Edit: is it ulfric or ulric?
 
Rukia said:
Adhoc vote count started by Rukia on Oct 28, 2021 at 11:33 AM, finished with 887 posts and 212 votes.
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*Internal Screaming*
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That is impressive to have that many votes and be so close
 
Tasoli said:
No it is not according to GM. If you want research take the Truth option is what he said. You are kidding yourself if you think you are going to get your cake and eat it too which is what this talk is.
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I feel this is unnecessarily rude, and incorrect to boot: it's not likely but possible.
It's not impossible for Ranald to pull a Binding of Isaac and allow you to keep what you were about to sacrifice, but that's definitely not something you should be counting on.
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Getting consent for an invasive research (and being okay with not getting consent, even if it's a likely outcome) sounds like a reasonable option to me, dunno why it's got so much pushback based on metagaming arguments.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
In this case the betrayal of Ranald has already happened (Though frankly I disagree with the way you characterize it) . We don't have to ever intentionally involve his "DNA" in any further investigations. But due to the way the vote is structured if we ever want to take a swab of a crime scene to see if we can figure out the culprit we need to vote truth.
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Um, no, the betrayal hasn't happened. We just got a bunch of his DNA. The doing of science on the crystal would be the 23andMe stuff. Or actually worse, because it would be non-consensual science on someone who's a friend. I'm honestly not willing to do such science on any sentient who isn't evil, and I don't want to do this on evil gods for corruption reasons.
 
Tobtorp said:
Mathy though of the fire of ulfric first, which is publicly accessible and people light their own fires from it all the time. I don't think we should go for that one first anyway (because we kinda like ulfric) but it shows that there can be fairly easy ways to get this essence...
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Not many gods exactly have a publically available major divine artifact they let people regularly poke. And we likely need to use the mother flame, since to my understanding the flames taken from it lose their connection to ulric.

I'm not discounting it. It's just going to be rather difficult to pull, particularly against hostile gods like I've seen people suggesting.
 
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DragonParadox said:
We can take a gyro to the kurgans and then use them to get up to Dum.
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Is this possible realistically? I thought the biggest problem with going back to KD (ignoring AP and convincing the thread) was getting from the kurgans to Dum and then having a way to go back safely. Because unless I'm misremembering (don't know that much about Warhammer), if there're beings who can catch up with Mathilde on a Shadowhorse they're in the Chaos Wastes.

I also want to point out we could bribe Cython with divine research to accompany us.
 
Byzantine said:
Not many gods exactly have a publically available major divine artifact they let people regularly poke. And we likely need to use the mother flame, since to my understanding the flames taken from it lose their connection to ulfric.
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The idea was hiding the crystal and vitea in a little lantern and doing it that way. It's in the update if you want to take a look.
 
Tobtorp said:
The idea was hiding the crystal and vitea in a little lantern and doing it that way. It's in the update if you want to take a look.
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I know. My point is that's direct contact with a major divine artifact, which is not an easy thing to get. Most gods and their followers are quite protective of them. There's a handful we can probably pull the pilgrim trick on, but the rest will be more involved.
 
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Abhorsen said:
Um, no, the betrayal hasn't happened. We just got a bunch of his DNA. The doing of science on the crystal would be the 23andMe stuff. Or actually worse, because it would be non-consensual science on someone who's a friend. I'm honestly not willing to do such science on any sentient who isn't evil, and I don't want to do this on evil gods for corruption reasons.
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Okay, if that's your position then we can just never vote to use his crystal in the future. Which is the default I expect personally.

All evil gods can't just blanket corrupt people. Circumstances need to align, and even when they do align if it's not in their wheelhouse they generally still can't do so.
 
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Tasoli said:
Does it even need to invole Ranald at all after this? Why keep bringing him up. We can have our projects without his okay.
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No, I'm not fine with imitating modern science at it's most vile by doing science on non-consenting non-evil sentients. And I don't want to do it to evil sentients because of corruption.
Thomasfoolery said:
Okay, if that's your position then we can just never vote to use his crystal in the future.

All evil gods can't just blanket corrupt people. Circumstances need to align, and even when they do align if it's not in their wheelhouse they generally still can't do so.
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No, first yes they very much can do so, and easily. And the circumstances aligning is literally "We have a finger print of an chaotic god right next to us". Yeah, other than Gork and Mork, I don't see this ending well.
 
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Byzantine said:
Not many gods exactly have a publically available major divine artifact they let people regularly poke. And we likely need to use the mother flame, since to my understanding the flames taken from it lose their connection to ulric.

I'm not discounting it. It's just going to be rather difficult to pull, particularly against hostile gods like I've seen people suggesting.
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Going for minor artifacts is also possible, and honestly a lot easier and less risky.
 
vsh said:
Getting consent for an invasive research (and being okay with not getting consent, even if it's a likely outcome) sounds like a reasonable option to me, dunno why it's got so much pushback based on metagaming arguments.
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I don't think it's invasive research - we're doing the equivalent of taking a picture and scrutinizing it very closely here, poking Ranald directly would drive us insane that's why he told us to stop when we tried.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
Okay, if that's your position then we can just never vote to use his crystal in the future.

All evil gods can't just blanket corrupt people. Circumstances need to align, and even when they do align if it's not in their wheelhouse they generally still can't do so.
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To be fair usually that process isn't being helped along by both the presence of one of their divine artifacts and a crystal that is an imprint of their nature.

Probably still not going to easily break anyone, but it's not truly safe either.
 
[X] Truth
Prepare a secure container to store the crystal in, with room for many more to come.
[X] Faith
Sacrifice the crystal to Ranald in an act of dedication to Him.

I think I'll go with theses two options.
 
Abhorsen said:
Um, no, the betrayal hasn't happened. We just got a bunch of his DNA. The doing of science on the crystal would be the 23andMe stuff. Or actually worse, because it would be non-consensual science on someone who's a friend. I'm honestly not willing to do such science on any sentient who isn't evil, and I don't want to do this on evil gods for corruption reasons.
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I have a question for you, superpose we choose Faith and Ranald says: 'Yeah thanks for burning that, you can do it to everyone else.' Does that make him vile or is his consent good for all the gods?
 
Warning: Warning
  • Staff Post
    • Shane_357 said:
    Whether or not this vote is the 'be all end all' of getting to research the Divine, as those two implied.
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    Boney said:
    Twisting other peoples' posts into strawmen and asking me to refute the point they didn't actually make is something I'd rather you didn't do. The point it's very clear they're making is that they feel this is a rare opportunity, which is objectively true, and that they don't think it's likely that Mathilde will get another one. If you disagree with that assessment then debate it, don't try to sic me on it.
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    Shane_357 said:
    Uh.

    Kinda word for word here, not much to actually debate.
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    Shane_357 said:
    Ah, so someone can't be intelligent or a scholar without conforming to Enlightenment views?
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    warning Your pattern of posting over the last ten pages or so has been disruptive and inflammatory to the thread, and the argument. I realise this was not deliberate on your part, but both I and the GM have warned you about this before. You have been threadbanned for one week. Please don't do this again, or we may have to use a much longer threadban.


    Tasoli said:
    You are a liar Shane because we have only an option to research divine and that is it. What you are saying about us not taking other options is the lie you are telling because none of the things you said was ever an option to give us any definitive answers. There has never been a time where such clear option was open and we had not taken it.

    I hope this is clear enough.
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    Tasoli said:
    You can't even keep it cohorent in your single sentence, is it fingerprint or DNA for you?
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    warning
    I realise that it is easy for tempers to get strained in close vote debates like these, but this is over the line, and comes very close to the thread policy. You have been threadbanned for one week. Please don't do this again, or you will be infracted and threadbanned under the thread policy.
     
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